Question regarding the word charitoo in the King James Bible with Strongs Dictionary?

[jrtrent]

I don’t see the word “accepted” anywhere in the following verses; just the word grace for each.

It’s Ephesians 1:6. I quoted the verse for you, but probably didn’t format it in such a way as to make it clear. The verse reads:

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The word “grace” just before the comma, is, in my Strong’s Concordance, listed as 5485. The word “accepted” is referenced to 5487.

In the table you linked to, in the section for Strong’s 5487 there are 28 Biblical references given under 3 variant spellings. Ephesians 1:6 is listed twice. I’m sorry I can’t reproduce the Greek letters to make it more clear, but the first entry is a form of the word used only once, and it’s said to be in Eph. 1:6. My assumption is that it’s this form of the word that is translated “accepted” in the KJV.

The second entry in the table, spelled a bit differently, is found in Luke 1:28.

The third entry in the table, with yet another variant spelling, contains 26 references, including Eph. 1:6 again (and in this form, is likely the one translated “grace”).

All of those last 26 references are listed as 5485 in my Strong’s, so I’m unclear as to why they are listed as a variant of 5487 in that table. As I mentioned before, I’m certainly no Greek scholar.

 

[DaveBj]

So, the following is wrong:

Textus Receptus Greek Text
King James Bible
With Strongs Dictionary

I retrieved it from here:

sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONGRK548.htm#S5487

Exactly. It is wrong. It lists the spelling charitos as a conjugated form of the verb charitoo, Strong’s number 5487. This is an error. Charitos is the genitive singular of the noun charis, Strong’s number 5485.

But . . . you found it on the internet, so it must be right. After all, they can’t put anything wrong on the internet

jrtrent said:

As I mentioned before, I’m certainly no Greek scholar.

Neither am I. But to paraphrase Henry Ford said, when he was accused of being an ignoramus, I (and jr) do know where to go for the right answers.

 

[DaveBj]

Addition to my previous post – the authoritative working aid for this kind of search is the Englishman’s Concordance. It lists the vocabulary of the Old and New Testaments in Strong’s number order, and then lists every verse where this word occurs. I don’t think it’s available on-line, and I don’t have time to search right now, but it is available as a feature of various Bible-study software programs, such as the PC Study Bible that I have.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

So, the following is wrong:

Textus Receptus Greek Text
King James Bible
With Strongs Dictionary

I retrieved it from here:

sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONGRK548.htm#S5487

I think it is improper to use either three as a sort of “standard” for biblical study, especially since the TR is based off the KJV, and the KJV, while a good translation, is based off far less manuscripts than most translations today. Strong’s dictionary, while a good starting point, is far inferior to many other lexical and grammatical sources available today.

But in either case, it is not those three sources which are wrong, but the website which is wrong, as has been demonstrated by myself and others in this thread.

 

[CopticChristian]

I just switched back to this window from the window displaying John 1:14 in the Greek interlinear (with Strong’s numbers), and John 1:14 is 5485, NOT 5487. Which Greek working aid is telling that John 1:14 (and presumably the others in your list) is 5487? Because you are being misinformed, and by continuing to insist on it you are making yourself look bad. “Grace” as a noun is charis, 5485. “Graced/accepted” as a verb is used only twice, and that is charitoo, 5487.

Dave,

I find this entirely amusing…

from Douay-Rheims

28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

In consideration that the Vatican has one of the oldest manuscripts, and the Vatican has guys much smarter than any one on this thread…looking at what is posted…

What does this mean?

This word means that, look here, look there, biblical study…look here…

mb-soft.com/believe/txc/septuagi.htm

and someone decides to translate one word differently, makes you wonder what else was translated differently and why?

The bottom line is this…Theologians over the centuries saw this as Hail Mary full of grace…and here the prayer is discussed…

newadvent.org/cathen/07110b.htm

It was antecedently probable that the striking words of the Angel’s salutation would be adopted by the faithful as soon as personal devotion to the Mother of God manifested itself in the Church. The Vulgate rendering, Ave gratia plena, “Hail full of grace”, has often been criticized as too explicit a translation of the Greek chaire kecharitomene, but the words are in any case most striking, and the Anglican Revised Version now supplements the “Hail, thou that art highly favoured” of the original Authorized Version by the marginal alternative, “Hail thou, endued with grace”. We are not surprised, then, to find these or analogous words employed in a Syriac ritual attributed to Severus, Patriarch of Antioch (c. 513), or by Andrew of Crete and St. John Damascene, or again the “Liber Antiphonarious” of St. Gregory the Great as the offertory of the Mass for the fourth Sunday of Advent.

Thank God, I don’t have to spend my time trying to figure out the meaning of every word to know that this prayer is Ok…and every Christian should change their understanding of Mary…and recall that all generations would call her blessed…so, when they think, speak, write the word Mary…Pleeeeeaaaaase…

Just for the record, think, speak and write Blessed Mary whenever you hear, see, read the name…Bible says so…

 

[DaveBj]

Dave,

I find this entirely amusing…

from Douay-Rheims

snip

Sorry, I don’t understand where you are coming from. My post had nothing to do with the kecharitomene in Luke 1:28. I was on about something totally different.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry, I don’t understand where you are coming from. My post had nothing to do with the kecharitomene in Luke 1:28. I was on about something totally different.

BJ,

OP says this…BJ Say what?

In the following link we have the King James Bible with Strong’s Dictionary. I have a question regarding the Greek word charitoo; see Strong’s 5487:

sacrednamebible.com/kjvst…K548.htm#S5487

Every time (with the exception of Luke 1:28) - the Greek word charitoo is translated into English, we see the word grace as can be verified by going to the aforementioned link and clicking on every verse that contains Strong’s 5487.

Why is charitoo, in Strong’s #5487 translated as grace 27 out of 28 times, to the exclusion of Luke 1:28, where charitoo is instead, translated as “Hail thou that art highly favoured?”

Why the exception with Luke 1:28?

 

[DaveBj]

Coptic, you need to go back and read all my posts. You really should understand a discussion before you insert yourself into it. My point, thru several posts, was that the reference website that the OP was using for his source material is seriously in error.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic, you need to go back and read all my posts. You really should understand a discussion before you insert yourself into it. My point, thru several posts, was that the reference website that the OP was using for his source material is seriously in error.

BJ,

I read all your posts…

In consideration that the Vatican has one of the oldest manuscripts, and the Vatican has guys much smarter than any one on this thread…looking at what is posted…

I still find it amusing that there is this concern about a word, or understanding of a word, that is certainly more a Protestant issue than a Catholic issue and your suggestion that I not insert myself into a conversation, because of your posting will be weighed with all the merits of the rules of the Forum…