Question relating to Eastern Orthodox Church

[Angel_Gabriel]

I can understand why the Latin Catholic church relaxed the fasting rule because of the number of threads we get on here, especially in Lent, about can I eat this or that and how much can I eat and I ate a sandwich so am I in mortal sin, etc. People don’t understand “how to fast”, they are only concerned with whether taking an extra bite of food put them into mortal sin.

This is a perfect example of why the Latin Church should embrace the concept of economia. The ridiculous obsession of eating XYZ and afraid of sinning has gotten completely out of control. I knew someone who was afraid he sinned b/c he had gum before church. This type of thinking is so incredibly damaging. And I will add that this type of thinking is also found in the East at times…usually from over zealous converts on the internet; the “Hyperdox”. They often accuse people of not being devout enough if you don’t go vegan for the fasts etc.

 

[adamhovey1988]

The Orthodox aren’t really unified. This sounds terrible, but, the truth is, talk to five different Orthodox bishops, and you’ll get five different opinions, all of them claiming to be Orthodox.

 

[Xarto]

I’m on Reddit a lot and over the years I’ve heard so many varying opinions from Orthodox as to what they think of Catholic sacrements, however it isn’t consistent.

 

[Xarto]

I sometimes think that the only thing the Orthodox have in common is that they aren’t Catholic lol

 

[ReaderT]

The Orthodox aren’t really unified. This sounds terrible, but, the truth is, talk to five different Orthodox bishops, and you’ll get five different opinions, all of them claiming to be Orthodox.

There are many issues where we leave things up to the Priest’s prudential judgment (e.g. whether or not to bless a rosary, whether to give confession to a non-Orthodox in dire need. Etc. etc. etc.)

As long as we’re talking about minor issues, I find this approach more helpful than the Western legalistic mindset, where every question has one exact answer written in dead black letters.

I’m on Reddit a lot and over the years I’ve heard so many varying opinions from Orthodox as to what they think of Catholic sacrements, however it isn’t consistent.

It’s no surprise that you hear various opinions -the question has no bearing on our salvation, and is therefore irrelevant in our faith-walk and unworthy of our focus.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

All the Eastern Churches to my knowledge have fairly strict fasting rules, but also Latin Catholics are free to fast whenever they want. Plenty of Latin Catholics abstain every Friday, quite a few traditional Catholics fast from midnight till morning Mass, and I know quite a few Latin Catholics who engage in some type of regular fasting for various devotions. Most of them do not tell people they are fasting because then it’s like praying on the street corner - you’re supposed to fast in private.

I can understand why the Latin Catholic church relaxed the fasting rule because of the number of threads we get on here, especially in Lent, about can I eat this or that and how much can I eat and I ate a sandwich so am I in mortal sin, etc. People don’t understand “how to fast”, they are only concerned with whether taking an extra bite of food put them into mortal sin. The Eastern fast as I understand it has some rules, but a lot is left up to the individual and the sin part is de-emphasized in keeping with their general non-legalistic approach. They are also encouraged to discuss with their priest, and seem to have enough priests that it is realistic for a person to approach them (whereas getting a priest on the line for anything other than an emergency in the Latin Church can be challenging). The Latin Church likely doesn’t have enough priests, nor a good tradition of educating people about fasting, to try to do that. Those of us called to fast are able to seek out and discern our own resources - certain online priests are sponsoring fasting days and fasting periods all the time if one wants to join.

So if you want to fast, have at it. Nothing’s stopping you just because the Latin Church doesn’t order you to do it.

I do not discuss my fasting or abstinence, unless I am in circumstances where I have to decline a meat dish (doesn’t happen anymore since I retired, Southerners have no concept of not eating meat), or where I judge it a “teachable moment” for a Catholic who doesn’t know the Church’s genuine discipline, or for a non-Catholic who would benefit from being introduced to the concept of dietary penance, however slight that penance is. Fasting and abstinence by their very nature are private — after all, the food ends up inside you, and nobody sees what you’ve eaten or not eaten.

I quite agree that the Eastern practice of “do as much as you can do, and then maybe somewhere down the road, you’ll be inspired to, and be able to, do even more” when it comes to fasting and abstinence, is far preferable to “is eating X amount of food a mortal sin?”. I’m a big, robust guy and my meals are often fairly hearty. A “half-meal” for me on Ash Wednesday might be someone else’s full meal.

I would indeed like to see the Church in this country return to Friday abstinence, but after 50 years of “we can eat meat now”, and the disconnect between behavior and sinfulness that too many suffer from, I suppose it would have to be presented as a “better practice” and as an opportunity to practice the penance that is so lacking nowadays, not as something binding under pain of sin.

 

[AlNg]

In Greece or Romania for example, the Priest would probably ask if he had some reason to believe that are not Orthodox.

How much time have you spent in Romania?

 

[AlNg]

We really don’t have a Eucharistic Fast anymore. The one-hour fast is, at best, a token one — by the time the faithful receive communion, at a Sunday Mass, it is probably 45 minutes, give or take, since Mass began.

Does the Orthodox tradition of strict fasting before receiving Holy Communion indicate a greater reverence and respect for the Body and Blood of Jesus?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

We really don’t have a Eucharistic Fast anymore. The one-hour fast is, at best, a token one — by the time the faithful receive communion, at a Sunday Mass, it is probably 45 minutes, give or take, since Mass began.

Does the Orthodox tradition of strict fasting before receiving Holy Communion indicate a greater reverence and respect for the Body and Blood of Jesus?

As far as I’m concerned, it does. This said, for medical reasons I would be unable to keep a fast from midnight, unless the Mass were very early in the morning.

I have wondered if the preference of many for early-morning Masses (7-8 am or even earlier) is a cultural carry-over from the first half of the 20th century, when fasting from midnight was mandatory for communicants. I am much more of an owl than a lark, which is why many of my posts on here are time-stamped the middle of the night, due in part to caregiving and living circumstances, and sometimes I sleep in two nighttime “shifts” like medieval people did, awaking in the wee small hours to read, write, and sometimes enjoy a snack or even do light housework, then going back to bed for a few hours. Once upon a time I got up super-early on Sunday morning, went to 8 am Mass (which I never do) — and the place was packed! Where I live, there are a lot of retired people, a lot of military and ex-military, and coupling this with the Southern predilection of many to get up at the crack of dawn or before (a remnant of rural upbringing), I shouldn’t have been surprised.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

Does the Orthodox tradition of strict fasting before receiving Holy Communion indicate a greater reverence and respect for the Body and Blood of Jesus?

Yes and no. Anytime someone is more intentional there is more reverence and more indication that one will ensure to be prepared to receive. A total fast from midnight on until you commune can certainly indicate someone is being intentional. However, there is also a danger of becoming more legalistic too. Fasting can easily become just a thing that one does if one doesn’t have the right mindset.

Orthodox churches can sometimes be very noisy, chatty, and irreverent while communion is going on. It’s definitely a problem that one can see in more than a few Orthodox parishes. I’ve had more than one priest and deacon go from outright condemnation of the irreverence to gently instructing a better way. It’s enough of a problem that it is a frequent topic that is addressed. So, don’t think that strict standards for fasting necessarily translates into extreme reverence during the Divine Liturgy.

Depending on the jurisdiction and priest, we certainly don’t go to confession as often as Catholics tend to either (I’ve been instructed to go four times a year unless I feel the need to go more frequently), which is extremely important when it comes to being prepared to commune and also tied to reverence too.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have wondered if the preference of many for early-morning Masses (7-8 am or even earlier) is a cultural carry-over from the first half of the 20th century, when fasting from midnight was mandatory for communicants

I don’t think there’s a big preference for that in US, at least not on Sunday. Invariably the “big Mass” on Sunday is always at 10 am. If there’s a Saturday vigil Mass, that one always seems to be quite full also. Weekday Masses tend to happen between 6 and 8 am, allegedly because people need to go to work, but when I can find a weekday Mass happening around noon or after work, it’s usually pretty well attended.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Orthodox churches can sometimes be very noisy, chatty, and irreverent while communion is going on. It’s definitely a problem that one can see in more than a few Orthodox parishes. I’ve had more than one priest and deacon go from outright condemnation of the irreverence to gently instructing a better way. It’s enough of a problem that it is a frequent topic that is addressed. So, don’t think that strict standards for fasting necessarily translates into extreme reverence during the Divine Liturgy.

Do you mean among the people who are actually going to communion, the people who stay behind, or both?

I hate to hear that. I know that from time to time in the Catholic Church, there will be giggling, acknowledging one’s neighbor, and even talking, but it’s the exception rather than the norm.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

Both, unfortunately. I frequently see people commune and then go talk to everyone they encounter on the way back to where they were before getting in the communion line. It’s a real problem. Another issue is people will sometimes immediately leave after communing instead of staying until the end (which I’ve been guilty of this one myself- I can’t lie).

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Both, unfortunately. I frequently see people commune and then go talk to everyone they encounter on the way back to where they were before getting in the communion line. It’s a real problem. Another issue is people will sometimes immediately leave after communing instead of staying until the end (which I’ve been guilty of this one myself- I can’t lie).

Leaving immediately after communion happens far more frequently in the Catholic Church, than the probabilities of urgent need (illness, pressing duties, having to catch public transport on time, etc.) would indicate.

The only way I can begin to find a legitimate reason for this, is that the communicant is so keenly aware of the Body of Christ within them at this moment, that they want to find a quiet place to pray, to adore, and to meditate without being subjected to the “liturgy of the bulletin” (which begins “please be seated”) or the social glad-handing that takes place at warp speed, once the priest has processed out of the nave.

In more “animated” parishes, it reminds me of a murder of crows cawing, getting louder and louder as the seconds tick by, not unlike something out of Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds. This is one reason I much prefer the TLM — that just is not done there. The faithful process out quietly, slowly, and staying behind 5-10 minutes for silent prayer isn’t uncommon at all. Once they get out of the church building, they are the most social people you will ever meet.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Another issue is people will sometimes immediately leave after communing instead of staying until the end (which I’ve been guilty of this one myself- I can’t lie).

This happens frequently in the Latin Church as well…and I’ve been guilty of it too.

 

[ziapueblo]

You could say the same for some Catholic bishops could you not? Inter-church squabbling among the higher ups is not new, in both the Catholic and Orthodox world.

On the Sunday of Orthodoxy we always have Pan-Orthodox Vespers service. Every year the Vespers service is prayed at a different location (the Greek Orthodox parish, OCA parish, Antiochian parish and ROCOR parish). Four different jurisdictions coming together to pray on the first Sunday of Great Lent.

ZP

 

[dochawk]

All the Eastern Churches to my knowledge have fairly strict fasting rules,

The Metropolia of Phoenix’ fasting rules are only moderately stricter than the RCC. (I sometimes refer to us as “the fasting wimps of Eastern Christianity” . . .)

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

what about Friday fasting? or 1 meal a day on Fridays?

are those kind of stuff relaxed now in the Latin Church?

While relaxed in US, in Slovakia in the very least we are expected to have meatless Fridays entire year. 1 meal a day thing is actually 3 meals per day (but two have to be small) and happens only on very special occasions (Good Friday).

 

[Margaret_Ann]

4 times a year?!? Pope Pius XII recommended that Catholics go at least once a month. And when I was last on retreat, the priest recommended at least every two weeks.

 

[Xarto]

Always amazed me that the priest (RC) didn’t say anything about this. My dad always made us stay until the priest walked out and the choir finished.