Question & Response Please

[p31k]

I am a cradle Catholic. I also consider myself a submissive wife. I let my husband make the decisions regarding the finances & whatever else comes up. I have limited (name removed by moderator)ut on the home. My job is to maintain the home & that includes what groceries we need & clothing/basic needs for myself & child. The rest my husband manages. I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore. He prefers things O.K. at all times. Doesn’t have to be happy or joyful just O.K. I always listen to him share his thoughts because that is required of me. I always have the belief/faith that things will work out. I believe that God put my husband in my life to show me my proper place. I admit that I do like the fact that I don’t have to deal with much of anything because my husband likes to be in control. He is the head of the home & I go along with whatever he wishes. He works hard & is a good provider. What more could I ask for? That’s all that really matters. We don’t attend church at the moment because my husband has decided this past month that he wants to live his life & not be pinned down to behaving a certain way because he is a Christian. I know that’s the devil speaking but I just let it go & pray he will come out of this fog. This happens often with my husband. He says he still believes but who am I to decide what we are to do. I will ride this phase out like all the others. My question is has anyone else gone through ( or going through) something similar?

 

[akela135]

I’ve never been in your situation but you have my prayers!

The rest my husband manages. I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore.

This worries me. While it is alright to submit to your husband St. Paul also says to husbands and wives to “submit to each other as to Christ” and also that husbands should “love their wives”. I worry by not taking what you have to say into consideration or even being willing to listen to you just talk about your day your husband isn’t fulfilling his duties as a husband. If you can find someone to talk to about this I encourage it. This does not sound healthy for either you or him.

We don’t attend church at the moment because my husband has decided this past month that he wants to live his life & not be pinned down to behaving a certain way because he is a Christian.

In this you say “we” so I am going to assume that means you are not going to church as well. You are to follow Christ before you to submit to your husband. If he asks you do something that is sinful or pulls you away from Christ that is not acceptable and you do not have to submit in that situation. If you want to go to church then you need to let him know that it is your right as a Christian to go to church and be with God and that you will always put God first. I encourage you to go back to church every week regardless of whether he goes with you. That way you can be shining example of Christian love and faith. If you are unable to drive yourself to church contact the local churchs as many of them have bus or shuttle services to pick up those who would otherwise be unable to come.

You are in my prayers.

 

[Amccordford]

^^^ What the second poster said!

I too am a submissive wife, similar to the situation you describe, however, you are a unique child of God as well and you are entitled to dignity! In all things in your marriage, you should be striving to do things out of love for God first and your husband second.

 

[Joe_5859]

My wife would never let me get away with acting like that!

I know different marriages have different dynamics, but I’m a big believer in mutual submission. Ephesians 5:22 is immediately preceded by Ephesians 5:21 for a very good reason. Ephesians 5:21 sets the tone for the whole passage that follows and it should not be neglected. It’s the interpretive key to that oft-controversial section. Submission is not a one-way street.

Catholics are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday. To shirk this obligation is a sin. We never ought to submit to someone who asks us to do something sinful. Not wives to husbands, children to parents, or priests to bishops. Even those who have legitiamate authority over us (which is not how I would choose to define the husband/wife relationship) have no authority to ask us to sin.

Submission does not mean being reduced to silence with no option but to grin and bear it.

I will pray for you and your husband.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore.

With all due respect, I am very concerned for you. How can you not have an opinion? It sounds like an emotionally abusive situation where your feelings are not being considered at all. No good husband would put a woman through that.

I know it is difficult, but I would continue to go to church and start voicing my opinions.

 

[Spencerian]

My wife would never let me get away with acting like that!

I know different marriages have different dynamics, but I’m a big believer in mutual submission. Ephesians 5:22 is immediately preceded by Ephesians 5:21 for a very good reason. Ephesians 5:21 sets the tone for the whole passage that follows and it should not be neglected. It’s the interpretive key to that oft-controversial section. Submission is not a one-way street.

Catholics are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday. To shirk this obligation is a sin. We never ought to submit to someone who asks us to do something sinful. Not wives to husbands, children to parents, or priests to bishops. Even those who have legitiamate authority over us (which is not how I would choose to define the husband/wife relationship) have no authority to ask us to sin.

Submission does not mean being reduced to silence with no option but to grin and bear it.

I will pray for you and your husband.

To add a tidbit to this very insightful response:

I see the concept of submission in recognition of the fact that, on some occasions, a decision must be made on matters of faith and life. Just as the Church is not democratic, a family cannot be–and in fact would be deadlocked–if a vote were taken on a subject between husband and wife.

In this case, the husband needs to take in all information, consider the impact as leader and partner in the household, pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance, and break the tie. The wife is called on to provide any information to help this decision by the husband.

It’s not that the wife is incapable of making big decisions. It’s just the Church’s way of suggesting that, in most cases, there can be only one leader and one decision and somebody has to make a choice. Doesn’t mean the husband is right all the time–that’s why prayer as well as good debate between the spouses is important.

The wife comes up in the positive here. She is the one who has to show the greatest humility by supporting her husband in the final decision. A woman that can resist the urge to fight is just as laudable, in my mind, as a man who humbles himself by not playing the leader at all times and in all circumstances, even deciding not to decide and to consider his wife’s suggestions. God does not appoint husbands as kings.

 

[p31k]

My husband wants nothing to do with the church at all. He says that he doesn’t get anything out of it anymore. He wants to just live his life but still believes. I can’t go behind his back & attend church. That would be wrong on my part. I admit I’m alright with not attending because I really don’t enjoy leaving the home. I didn’t talk to anyone at the church we attended as my husband has. Truth be told, I never felt a connection to anything with the church (or anyone/anything) & prefer to worship on my own alone. When we did go I would be civil. I know that worship is not about me it’s about God.

 

[agnes_therese]

I am a cradle Catholic. I also consider myself a submissive wife. I let my husband make the decisions regarding the finances & whatever else comes up. I have limited (name removed by moderator)ut on the home. My job is to maintain the home & that includes what groceries we need & clothing/basic needs for myself & child. The rest my husband manages. I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore.

What you describe is NOT “being a submissive wife.” It’s a husband who is disconnected and uncaring.

He prefers things O.K. at all times. Doesn’t have to be happy or joyful just O.K. I always listen to him share his thoughts because that is required of me. I always have the belief/faith that things will work out. I believe that God put my husband in my life to show me my proper place. I admit that I do like the fact that I don’t have to deal with much of anything because my husband likes to be in control. He is the head of the home & I go along with whatever he wishes. He works hard & is a good provider. What more could I ask for?

A husband who treats you as a man should treat his wife, that’s what. A husband who cares about you and about what you think and what you want, instead of only thinking of himself. My goodness, we’d ALL prefer “things O.K. at all times.” But most of us grow up and realize that’s not possible.

We don’t attend church at the moment because my husband has decided this past month that he wants to live his life & not be pinned down to behaving a certain way because he is a Christian. I know that’s the devil speaking but I just let it go & pray he will come out of this fog. This happens often with my husband. He says he still believes but who am I to decide what we are to do. I will ride this phase out like all the others. My question is has anyone else gone through ( or going through) something similar?

“We” don’t attend church because he’s decided he doesn’t want to? This is wrong on SO many levels. Being a “submissive wife” does NOT mean being a doormat. It’s not right for you to be treated this way, and it’s not right for your child to grow up thinking that this is an acceptable way for a husband to treat a wife.

You really should talk to a priest. Don’t ask your husband’s “permission,” just do it. You have every right to spiritual counsel.

 

[p31k]

With all due respect, I am very concerned for you. How can you not have an opinion? It sounds like an emotionally abusive situation where your feelings are not being considered at all. No good husband would put a woman through that.

I know it is difficult, but I would continue to go to church and start voicing my opinions.

I was raised/told that a man is the head & superior to a woman. I truly believe that. I was also told to put my personal feelings/wants off to the side & do what I’m told. Even as an adult I do as I’m told. Doesn’t matter if it’s my husband, his father, or my father. I will not disagree with any other man that I know. If it’s something immoral then I would disagree but everything else is to be obeyed without question. This is how I’ve lived my life as a child & adult. There is no in between. Voicing opinions will only lead to strife & an unhappy spirit. I strive to be a meek & mild (gentle) spirit.

 

[Aviatrix]

Is your spirit happy now?

May I ask the reasons you were told for women being submissive to their husbands? Why do you believe women should be submissive to all men?

Was it because of the scriptures that say it? If so, perhaps look into the context of those scriptures. They include husbands loving their wives, and do not say we need to obey commands to sin, regardless of who gives them.

I understand depression and not wanting to go out and interact with people. Truly though, your posts have me concerned about the possibility of abuse within your marriage. I believe that it is common for abusers to isolate their spouses. Isolating yourself from others and from the church won’t help depression either. Perhaps try something like Adoration? You can go and be with God, but not be forced into the social contexts when you aren’t ready for them. You needn’t do that behind his back, and he doesn’t have to come with you. Has he forbidden you from attending Mass? Have you asked if you can go on your own?

Please, please take care of yourself and your emotional and spiritual needs. You too are God’s child. You are a valid person and are deserving of respect, even when your depression is telling you otherwise. My prayers are with you.

 

[Joe_5859]

I was raised/told that a man is the head & superior to a woman. I truly believe that. I was also told to put my personal feelings/wants off to the side & do what I’m told. Even as an adult I do as I’m told. Doesn’t matter if it’s my husband, his father, or my father. I will not disagree with any other man that I know. If it’s something immoral then I would disagree but everything else is to be obeyed without question. This is how I’ve lived my life as a child & adult. There is no in between. Voicing opinions will only lead to strife & an unhappy spirit. I strive to be a meek & mild (gentle) spirit.

Not going to Mass when we are obligated to do so is immoral.

Not to tell you how to live your life based solely on your handful of posts o), but I would be cautious about allowing “submissiveness” to be a cop-out to basically avoid making decisions or taking on any sort of personal responsibility for your life. That strikes me as a real danger. Sure, I’d love to just “follow orders”, too, and not have to be burdened by decision-making. But we cannot do that as adults.

Are you happy with things the way they are? What prompted you to post here? It seemed you might be dissatisfied with your situation, but then you keep defending it as though you don’t want things to be different.

 

[p31k]

My spirit is happy when I let it all go & give in to God & my husband’s wishes. I often tell myself I need to be the woman (know my place) & not concern myself with the details. My role is keeper of the home. I stay home & keep the house.

It’s the opposite actually. My husband expects me to like all his friends & family. He tries to pressure me into being around these people that I may not always be comfortable around. I’m to want to hang with these people & like them. Isolating is not the issue although I can see where you may think that it is. I’ve seen the submissiveness in the other families in our church, my husband’s friends, his family-as well as mine. I’ve seen it growing up. I don’t feel it’s a bad thing at all.

I’m not interacting with others because of depression. I’ve always been this way but at various time I can be very outgoing if needed. However, I choose now to not be outgoing & keep to myself. I have never had adult friends & don’t really want to be close to anyone. My husband is very social which is great for him. He doesn’t understand that I don’t want that. I think it takes away from my duties. I don’t trust other people.

He has not forbidden church. I just don’t feel right about going if he doesn’t.

I am a cradle Catholic. I also consider myself a submissive wife. I let my husband make the decisions regarding the finances & whatever else comes up. I have limited (name removed by moderator)ut on the home. My job is to maintain the home & that includes what groceries we need & clothing/basic needs for myself & child. The rest my husband manages. I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore. He prefers things O.K. at all times. Doesn’t have to be happy or joyful just O.K. I always listen to him share his thoughts because that is required of me. I always have the belief/faith that things will work out. I believe that God put my husband in my life to show me my proper place. I admit that I do like the fact that I don’t have to deal with much of anything because my husband likes to be in control. He is the head of the home & I go along with whatever he wishes. He works hard & is a good provider. What more could I ask for? That’s all that really matters. We don’t attend church at the moment because my husband has decided this past month that he wants to live his life & not be pinned down to behaving a certain way because he is a Christian. I know that’s the devil speaking but I just let it go & pray he will come out of this fog. This happens often with my husband. He says he still believes but who am I to decide what we are to do. I will ride this phase out like all the others. My question is has anyone else gone through ( or going through) something similar?

Is your spirit happy now?

May I ask the reasons you were told for women being submissive to their husbands? Why do you believe women should be submissive to all men?

Was it because of the scriptures that say it? If so, perhaps look into the context of those scriptures. They include husbands loving their wives, and do not say we need to obey commands to sin, regardless of who gives them.

I understand depression and not wanting to go out and interact with people. Truly though, your posts have me concerned about the possibility of abuse within your marriage. I believe that it is common for abusers to isolate their spouses. Isolating yourself from others and from the church won’t help depression either. Perhaps try something like Adoration? You can go and be with God, but not be forced into the social contexts when you aren’t ready for them. You needn’t do that behind his back, and he doesn’t have to come with you. Has he forbidden you from attending Mass? Have you asked if you can go on your own?

Please, please take care of yourself and your emotional and spiritual needs. You too are God’s child. You are a valid person and are deserving of respect, even when your depression is telling you otherwise. My prayers are with you.

 

[Bezant]

As others have pointed out, not only does scriptural evidence reject the idea that wives alone should submit to their husbands’ wishes, sometimes wives must actively correct their husbands’ decisions. The most dramatic example is in Genesis 27, where Rebecca decieves Isaac in order to prevent him from giving their boorish son Esau the blessings of the House of Israel. Much later we see Queen Esther challenge King Ahasuerus’s authority in order to eliminate the wicked vezier Haman, who nearly exterminated the Jews. In both situations the wives’ passive silence could have led to disastrous outcomes.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am a cradle Catholic. I also consider myself a submissive wife. I let my husband make the decisions regarding the finances & whatever else comes up. I have limited (name removed by moderator)ut on the home. My job is to maintain the home & that includes what groceries we need & clothing/basic needs for myself & child. The rest my husband manages. I learned a long time ago (many years back) to just keep silent, don’t argue, or have an opinion. My husband doesn’t require much just that I don’t argue/disagree with him. He really doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking. He doesn’t have time to listen so I don’t share anything anymore. He prefers things O.K. at all times. Doesn’t have to be happy or joyful just O.K. I always listen to him share his thoughts because that is required of me. I always have the belief/faith that things will work out. I believe that God put my husband in my life to show me my proper place. I admit that I do like the fact that I don’t have to deal with much of anything because my husband likes to be in control. He is the head of the home & I go along with whatever he wishes. He works hard & is a good provider. What more could I ask for? That’s all that really matters. We don’t attend church at the moment because my husband has decided this past month that he wants to live his life & not be pinned down to behaving a certain way because he is a Christian. I know that’s the devil speaking but I just let it go & pray he will come out of this fog. This happens often with my husband. He says he still believes but who am I to decide what we are to do. I will ride this phase out like all the others. My question is has anyone else gone through ( or going through) something similar?

Is your husband a Pentecostal?

 

[p31k]

No. Why would you think that?

Is your husband a Pentecostal?

 

[Bezant]

As others have pointed out, not only does scriptural evidence reject the idea that wives alone should submit to their husbands’ wishes, sometimes wives must actively correct their husbands’ decisions. The most dramatic example is in Genesis 27, where Rebecca decieves Isaac in order to prevent him from giving their boorish son Esau the blessings of the House of Israel. Much later we see Queen Esther challenge King Ahasuerus’s authority in order to eliminate the wicked vezier Haman, who nearly exterminated the Jews. In both situations the wives’ passive silence could have led to disastrous outcomes.

Having said that, I suspect that this thread might be another trolling opportunity.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No. Why would you think that?

Is he Catholic?

 

[AloysiusBologna]

Thank you. You are not alone. I wish I could give you a confident and complete answer. I am sorry I cannot do so. I know however, that we can and do overcome many difficult obstacles. Reconcile and reassure yourself with Christ’s promise of forgiveness. If you are unable to discuss this with your husband, you must speak with someone who might help you…Family, friends, priests, doctors or even this forum. Change usually happens gradually, we often don’t notice the small changes but instead discover it all at once. During Eastertide we refill our holy water bottles; it is a time of rejoicing and of new life. You deserve to be able to share and rejoice. Do so, and you will be glad.

Guardian Angel,
watch over those whose names you can read in my heart.
Guard over them with every care
and make their way easy and their labours fruitful.
Dry their tears if they weep;
sanctify their joys;
raise their courage if they weaken;
restore their hope if they lose heart,
their health if they be ill,
truth if they err,
repentance if they fail.

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

 

[Aviatrix]

Isolating is not the issue

I am profoundly glad to hear it! I don’t think being submissive to ones spouse is a bad thing either. And it can be hard for extroverts to understand the social needs of introverts. I am an introvert myself.

You yourself have written that your husband doesn’t want to know what you think, doesn’t want you to have an opinion, doesn’t want to hear about your day, doesn’t want you to have (name removed by moderator)ut on your home, wants you to keep silent, is here to show you your proper place. It just…doesn’t seem quite what one would expect from a loving, respectful marriage.

I wasn’t planning on sharing this on a forum, but I’ll say here that I too submit to my husband. But he cares for my opinions. He wants to hear about my day. He wants my (name removed by moderator)ut on our house, expects me to disagree with him when he’s wrong. And he expects me to care for his opinions, hear about his day, ask for his (name removed by moderator)ut on our house, listen to him when he’s telling me I’m wrong. My marriage is by no means a model to which all others should be compared, please don’t think I’m saying that.

I just wonder if you are truly happy with the way things are? If you are not there are things that can be done. Individual counselling and couple counselling can help you devise strategies together that can improve a relationship. He doesn’t have time to listen to your feelings…is there something you could do for him that would take some of his load off?

Regardless of if you totally disagree with me on the previous, I still think it is not a very good idea to not go to church just because your spouse doesn’t want to. We are called to first obey God, yes? Many of us go through times where we don’t particularly want to go to church but “giving in to God” surely includes His commands to go to Mass.

Peace and Prayers,
Aviatrix

 

[mcc804]

A couple of thoughts. I do sense the possibility that we’re all being had and that this is a trolling post. If that’s not the case, my apologies to the OP. If this is an honest post, I would be curious to find out if the OP is from or lives in a foreign (possibly 3rd world) country. Otherwise I am baffled that a westernized Catholic woman would have experienced and continues to live at this level of so-called submission to her husband.

I have never personally known any Catholic woman, Traditional or Novus Ordo variety who behaved or thought this way. Also, there is NOTHING in Scripture that teaches being submissive to any man other than one’s husband.

The final thing is about Mass. You are obligated to go to Mass every single week of your life unless there is a serious reason not to…a grave reason. Otherwise you are in a state of Mortal Sin. You indicated that you could go to Mass without your H, but you don’t want to. That’s not a choice you can make, unless you have decided to put your soul in jeopardy and risk eternal damnation.

I understand not wanting to socialize with people … that’s me too. However, there are usually several Masses on Sundays … I’d go to the earliest one and sit in the back. Then I would leave afterward and return home. That’s it.

God Bless.