Question(s) on the Jesus Prayer

[ziapueblo]

I would agree that most Byzantine Catholic Churches pray Matins or one of the hours before Divine Liturgy.

ZP

 

[adamhovey1988]

As far as I know, there is no rule against Eastern Christians praying the Rosary or Latins praying the Jesus prayer. I am canonically Latin and pray both. Not sure what happened to my Chotki.

 

[PapyrusDouay]

Excellent, well educated post!

 

[PapyrusDouay]

I actually find it a bit strange that Latins want to pray Eastern prayers like the Jesus prayer. We have our own traditions.
What do you think about the Latins praying the Eastern Jesus prayer?
Why do you think Latins want to pray this prayer?
But the Latins do say Oriental prayers eg the Psalms. There might be Latin ways of saying/singing the Psalms but they are not Latin in origin. Dont you think? Even the first part of Hail Mary is oriental, right?

I don’t think it’s strange at all. I pray both the Rosary and Chotki.

There are many different spiritualities within Catholicism, both east and west. Everyone is allowed to adhere to one, or create an eclectic mix of what they like depending on their how they best pray and develop a relationship with God. A lot of people love the spiritualities found in the Eastern churches. I’m one of them, but it does not at all replace my love for Ignatian or desert spirituality, and it certainly doesn’t betray my Franciscan-ness. They supplement and enhance eachother.

There are also different kinds of Rosaries too! The kind you are most likely thinking of is from the Dominicans/ Order of Preachers. But i’m also going to assume you’re not a Dominican friar or nun. But that doesn’t matter! You don’t have to be a Dominican at all…It’s for everyone. There’s also a Franciscan Crown Rosary, and you don’t have to be a Franciscan to pray that either…It’s for everyone. The Chotki/Jesus prayer…is also for everyone.

 

[Vico]

1. Do the Eastern and Oriental Catholic laity pray the Jesus prayer? I mean, instead of the rosary?
2. In the Fatima prayer we say “…forgive us our sins…” but in the Jesus prayer we say “…have mercy on me…”. Why this focus on “me” in the Eastern tradition?
3. Why thus focus on the Jesus prayer when Jesus gave us the Our Father?

The equivalent to the Rosary is the Akathistos hymn or the Office of the Paraclesis rather the Jesus Prayer. All of these may be used to obtain a plenary indulgence. (Concession 23 - Prayers of the Eastern Churches).

The Jesus Prayer is the form of invocation used by those practicing mental prayer, a prayer of the heart.

St. Augustine said that grace is “The free gift of God’s mercy.”

 

[Justin_Mary]

The biggest difference between the rosary and the Jesus Prayer is that the rosary relies heavily on imaginative meditation on the mysteries, whereas the Jesus Prayer is meant to move us beyond such imaginative meditation. And just to be clear - there is a tradition of imaginative meditation in the East (the Byzantine East, as well as the rest of the Orient). But for the East the use of such meditation is meant to be an aid when a simple basking in the mystery of God isn’t given to us. This holds true for the West too, but the West likes to focus on the methods of such meditation (since it’s something that’s within our grasp and control), whereas the East is more concerned that we move beyond it.

I don’t believe that’s a fair statement. The point of imaginative meditation is to predispose the person to that which is beyond. However we believe that is a gift from God so you can’t really instruct someone how to receive it.

Also, the Rosary often comes up when asking about the Jesus Prayer, but I don’t see the relation. The Rosary is a collection of prayers, which includes the Apostles Creed (renewal of vows of baptism), the Our Father (taught by Jesus), the Hail Mary (request for intercession), Doxology (proper order of God’s glory) then some add the Fatima prayer (request for our sins) & I add the Jesus Prayer (request for forgiveness of my sins).

The Rosary was a substitute for the Devine Office because the meditations are a summary of the Gospels. It’s like an oral account of the Gospel in an easy to remember format.

As far as i know, there is no meditative aspect of the Jesus Prayer, or maybe I’m saying it wrong. Do you call to mind specific sins, or are you speaking of your sins in general when you recite it?

 

[PapyrusDouay]

Only after many years of praying the Our Father, do some of us actually “look into the mirror” and see the great sinner in great need of the great mercy of the Lord Jesus. Then, the maturity of the simple Jesus prayer becomes beautifully clear. Then, the reality of the full meaning of the Our Father begins to be appreciated.

Beautifully written.

I’ll also add that the Jesus prayer generally has a very different purpose than the Rosary or most other prayers we use. Others have touched upon it, but I’ll phrase it slightly differently to emphasize the significance of it. For the rosary, the intent is to meditate on the mysteries. By doing that, we allow these scenes (mostly) from the Gospels to move us, change us, and lead us to God.
…the Jesus Prayer is a way to fulfill the command to “pray without ceasing”. Setting aside the significance of the words themselves (me vs us), the Jesus Prayer and the Chotki (beads/knots similar to a rosary) is very much about praying non-stop. By repeating the prayer over and over again, as in the Chotki, it trains us in the ability to continuously pray it, even when not thinking about it. Which is really, to develop an interior disposition toward prayer, that is instinctual, and “never ceasing”.

 

[PapyrusDouay]

but I don’t see the relation

I think the relation is more to the Chotki, not the Jesus Prayer itself. I think the Chotki and the Jesus prayer are often conflated, which is understandable. The Chotki and the Rosary are both prayed on similarly shaped ropes of beads/knots.

There is a meditative aspect to the Chotki, which I tried to describe in my post right above this one. It’s basically that saying it over and over helps develop a habit or disposition toward non-stop prayer. It’s not so much pondering specific prayers, as it is just praying, and acknowledging Jesus. Personally, the words reminds me that without Jesus, I am nothing.

 

[Justin_Mary]

The equivalent to the Rosary is the Akathistos hymn

Just read it. Yes, that is more akin to the Rosary. Kind of like the Rosary & litany of Loreto all rolled into one.

 

[Justin_Mary]

the Jesus Prayer is a way to fulfill the command to “pray without ceasing”. Setting aside the significance of the words themselves (me vs us), the Jesus Prayer and the Chotki (beads/knots similar to a rosary) is very much about praying non-stop. By repeating the prayer over and over again, as in the Chotki, it trains us in the ability to continuously pray it, even when not thinking about it. Which is really, to develop an interior disposition toward prayer, that is instinctual, and “never ceasing”.

Interesting. In Carmelite spirituality we learn once our will is wed to Christ’s, once we become images of Christ, our every thought, word, & action will glorify & honor God, thus unceasing prayer like the angels.

I’m still a novitiate so I may be mistaken

 

[babochka]

But the Latins do say Oriental prayers eg the Psalms. There might be Latin ways of saying/singing the Psalms but they are not Latin in origin. Dont you think? Even the first part of Hail Mary is oriental, right?

This is strange to me and I’m not sure that I understand it. Are you saying that praying the psalms is not originally a Latin practice and was borrowed from the East? Praying the Psalms ancient throughout Christianity and a practice held over from Judaism. It is Catholic and does not belong to East or West.

Like the Jesus prayer, the first part of the Hail Mary is scriptural, belonging to the whole Church. We pray a prayer that begins with the Angelic Salutation; the Latins pray a prayer that begins with the same words. (The Latin prayer is intercessory, but ours is not).

You see, I really want to focus on the Latin tradition(s) since I am no Eastern/Oriental.
I really liked your explanation of the way Easterns ussually pray.
I actually find it a bit strange that Latins want to pray Eastern prayers like the Jesus prayer. We have our own traditions.
What do you think about the Latins praying the Eastern Jesus prayer?
Why do you think Latins want to pray this prayer?
But the Latins do say Oriental prayers eg the Psalms. There might be Latin ways of saying/singing the Psalms but they are not Latin in origin. Dont you think? Even the first part of Hail Mary is oriental, right?

And my understanding is that the Orientals/Eastern eg Cops dont have as much private devotions so they pray the Divine Office instead. Right?

I would rather say that the West tends to private devotions instead of the Divine Office, the liturgy of the Church being the gold standard.