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AlNg
Guest
So the teaching on Purgatory has changed? What else should we expect to change? Perhaps the teaching on artificial contraception since from reports, many Catholics do not observe this?
Question to a Priest: Often during a funeral I have heard the priest say the deceased is in heaven and suffers no more. How does this fit in with Cath
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I think if you stop and think instead of going into a tizzy fit because I said a teaching has “evolved” over time (like many Church teachings have evolved over time; look at the teachings on Limbo and on whether non-Catholics can go to Heaven, to give two examples) and actually think, thoughtfully, about what you are writing, the answer will be more clear.
Unfortunately, I also don’t think you’re interested in being thoughtful. You’re convinced you’re right and just looking to have an argument with me because I’m not going to agree that we 100 percent know that Purgatory is a horribly painful place full of fire and we’re all going to spend many years there. (Never mind that the teaching of both St. Therese, who is a Doctor of the Church, and St. Faustina suggested we might avoid Purgatory entirely.)
Have a nice day.
Unfortunately, I also don’t think you’re interested in being thoughtful. You’re convinced you’re right and just looking to have an argument with me because I’m not going to agree that we 100 percent know that Purgatory is a horribly painful place full of fire and we’re all going to spend many years there. (Never mind that the teaching of both St. Therese, who is a Doctor of the Church, and St. Faustina suggested we might avoid Purgatory entirely.)
Have a nice day.
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woolycaterpillar
Guest
I think purgatory might be slicing through to the person’s deepest being to expose any evil that was done during life, and the grief and pain is unbearable. Something like what would upset someone on earth, but multiplied exponentially. Like a laser, it pulls apart layers and layers of a hard crust built around the soul.
I read that many have this hard crust around their souls from just living on earth.
I read that many have this hard crust around their souls from just living on earth.
Who has said that the teaching on purgatory has changed ?Tis_Bearself:
So the teaching on Purgatory has changed? What else should we expect to change? Perhaps the teaching on artificial contraception since from reports, many Catholics do not observe this?
@Tis_Bearself said that the teaching on purgatory has evolved over time . That is not saying it has changed .
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The priest is more likely to say that we hope the person is in Heaven, that they are likely to be in Heaven, or that they are Heaven-bound. A priest would no more pronounce someone to be in Heaven than he would pronounce them to be in Hell. He has no way of knowing if someone’s purgatory took a tiny fraction of an earthly second, or a million earthly years.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Evolved and changed are different words.
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AlNg
Guest
I thought that one meaning of evolve was to change gradually. However, to go from 30 - 60 years of suffering by fire to a brief moment of cleansing seems like a radical change to me?
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Ardent_Fire
Guest
I didn’t know any time frame was definitively assigned to purgatory as far as what the Church actually taught. It’s outside of time and space and wouldn’t the “time” or purification vary from soul to soul depending on how they lived on earth?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
You are correct, littleburgy.
St. Therese taught that if we had enough trust in God’s mercy to just abandon ourselves to it, we might not have to go to Purgatory at all.
She got a lot of criticism from the other sisters in her convent for teaching the novices this.
But who’s the saint today?
St. Therese taught that if we had enough trust in God’s mercy to just abandon ourselves to it, we might not have to go to Purgatory at all.
She got a lot of criticism from the other sisters in her convent for teaching the novices this.
But who’s the saint today?
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AlNg
Guest
According to chapter 3 of the booklet posted on EWTN and written with the approval of the Catholic Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon:
from:
CHAPTER 3 : HOW LONG DO SOULS REMAIN IN PURGATORY?
“What can safely be said is that the time souls spend in Purgatory is, as a rule, very much longer than people commonly imagine.”
"St. Louis Bertrand’s father was an exemplary Christian, as we should naturally expect, being the father of so great a Saint. He had even wished to become a Carthusian monk until he learned that it was not God’s will for him.
When he died, after long years spent in the practice of every Christian virtue, his saintly son, fully aware of the rigors of God’s Justice, offered many Masses and poured forth the most fervent supplications for the soul he so dearly loved.
A vision of his father still in Purgatory forced him to intensify a
hundredfold his suffrages. He added most severe penances and long fasts to his Masses and prayers. Yet eight whole years passed before he obtained the release of his father.
St. Malachy’s sister was detained in Purgatory for a very long time,
despite the Masses, prayers and heroic mortifications the Saint offered for her!
It was related to a holy nun in Pampluna, who had succeeded in releasing many Carmelite nuns from Purgatory, that most of these had spent there terms of from 30 to 60 years!
Carmelite nuns in Purgatory for 40, 50 and 60 years! What will it be for those living amidst the temptations of the World and with all their
hundreds of weaknesses?"
Please see:
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
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Ardent_Fire
Guest
The Church still has never given out a definitive timeline measuring stick that applies to everyone, though – as far as what we know from the deposit of faith, and what is private revelation – these are not the same thing. People can speculate as they see fit, but only God knows the state of a soul and what happens to them after they die.
All that said, praying for the living and the dead is a spiritual work of mercy that people must not neglect.
All that said, praying for the living and the dead is a spiritual work of mercy that people must not neglect.
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Vico
Guest
And the Church offers indulgences which can be assigned to the faithfully departed. These help those in purgatory.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
English is sloppy sometimes. Change is part of evolution, however, there are different meanings to change.
Think of it this way, when a human zytoge impmants in the wall of the uterus, it begins to evolve into a human 50 year old man through a series of changes. That does not mean that the substance of human morphs into some other being, into a different substance, while to the ignorant eye the zygote and the adult would seem to be vastly different species.
The “time” of suffering in purgatory was never doctrinal. It was common piety.
If knowing the precise nature of purgatory was good for our salvation, it would have been revealed. That has not been revealed, so, we are best to simply trust God.
Eternity is outside of time, so, as we are told a thousand years is as a day. No one has a countdown clock in purgatory.
Think of it this way, when a human zytoge impmants in the wall of the uterus, it begins to evolve into a human 50 year old man through a series of changes. That does not mean that the substance of human morphs into some other being, into a different substance, while to the ignorant eye the zygote and the adult would seem to be vastly different species.
The “time” of suffering in purgatory was never doctrinal. It was common piety.
If knowing the precise nature of purgatory was good for our salvation, it would have been revealed. That has not been revealed, so, we are best to simply trust God.
Eternity is outside of time, so, as we are told a thousand years is as a day. No one has a countdown clock in purgatory.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Those are pious opinions, not statements of doctrine.
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