Question to Christian friends about God's love

[famdigy]

If the Christian God is loving, merciful and forgiving. Why hasn’t he forgiven Adam? Instead he has made all of Adam’s children pay for his original Sin.

I find it difficult to come to terms with the idea of a loving and forgiving God who has decided to punish humanity for one man’s sins, since the beginning of Human life up until 2000 years ago. Sounds like a vengeful god to me.

 

[John7]

I find it difficult to come to terms with the idea of a loving and forgiving God who has decided **to punish humanity **for one man’s sins, since the beginning of Human life up until 2000 years ago. Sounds like a vengeful god to me.

God isn’t punishing humanity. God had already decreed before Adam ate of the fruit that if Adam ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that he would die (Gen 2:17). God didn’t react in wrath by punishing Adam with death, else he’d be the author of death which obviously he isn’t. God did not say in 2:17, “In the day you eat thereof I will punish you with death”, but he did say, “In the day you eat thereof you shall surely die”. Sin kills, "for the wages of sin is death’ (Rom 6:23), not “the wages of sin is punishment from God”. Death is the result of sin, a wage sin earns, not a punishment from God. God did not kill Adam, sin killed Adam.

 

[famdigy]

the question is whether or not the christian god pardoned adam for the sin. If you answer yes then why did god make humanity responsible for the original sin.

If you answer no then how can you say god is loving.

 

[tassitus]

the question is whether or not the christian god pardoned adam for the sin. If you answer yes then why did god make humanity responsible for the original sin.

If you answer no then how can you say god is loving.

This comes off a sounding a bit silly.

I love my 5-year old daughter more than anything in this world. She is occasionally disobediant, but always apologizes for her wrongdoing. As soon as she apoligizes, she is forgiven. Yet she still receives a punishment (sometimes of the “time out” variety, other times by loosing one of her “choices” such as her DVD player).

Would you say that I am NOT a loving father for choosing to punish my child?

On a related question, does the word “justice” mean anything to you?

 

[John7]

the question is

Hi famdigy,
Besides your question, you made a comment about God which is amiss.

I find it difficult to come to terms with the idea of a loving and forgiving God who has decided to punish humanity for one man’s sins,

In post #2 I tried to answer this. There is a misunderstanding between the wrath of God and the judgment of God. The judgment of God upon sin is death. That’s not God’s unloving punishment as you said but God’s just judgment. God does not punish with death, death is the result of Adam choosing to sin. God is not some sort of wrathful ogre, but a loving God.

whether or not the christian god pardoned adam for the sin.

Yes in Christ Jesus all in Adam (including Adam himself) can receive forgiveness of sin,
John 1:29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

If you answer yes then why did god make humanity responsible for the original sin.

It wasn’t God that made humanity responsible. This huge problem Adam introduced (not God) and passed to all his children,
Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”

 

[famdigy]

This comes off a sounding a bit silly.
As soon as she apoligizes, she is forgiven. Yet she still receives a punishment (sometimes of the “time out” variety, other times by loosing one of her “choices” such as her DVD player).

I take it you believe Adam was forgiven. Can you provide scriptural evidence to support this view, also when was he forgiven. I believe and I could be wrong that according to christian belief. Adam was not forgiven during his lifetime.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If the Christian God is loving, merciful and forgiving. Why hasn’t he forgiven Adam? Instead he has made all of Adam’s children pay for his original Sin.

I find it difficult to come to terms with the idea of a loving and forgiving God who has decided to punish humanity for one man’s sins, since the beginning of Human life up until 2000 years ago. Sounds like a vengeful god to me.

As a Catholic, it is not necessary to view Adam as a literal individual.

Adam means mankind.

I believe the story of Genesis explains that we are created by God and that we are free to choose for or against God’s will.

Genesis explains that the existence free will necissitates that humans will often choose the wrong path.

 

[Sam_777]

Hi shiet fellow famdigy ,

When you say “Christian God” does that mean He is not the same as Allah!!!.

Anyway, my understanding for this point is as God The Most High have punched humanity through one man (Adam) he loved and forgave humanity through one Man also, and yet not any type of Man, He himself sent His Word for us.

However, I see God as a balance between justice and love, sometimes He impose the law to show us His justice, and He sent us Jesus (His Word) to show us His optimal mercy and love.

(Romans 5:12-15):
“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!”

 

[inJESUS]

God’s love does not negate His Justice. Disobeying God has its consequences and the Quran talks about throwing him and Eve out. The Original Sin is the state humanity after the fall.

 

[cyberjacques]

This comes off a sounding a bit silly.

I love my 5-year old daughter more than anything in this world. She is occasionally disobediant, but always apologizes for her wrongdoing. As soon as she apoligizes, she is forgiven. Yet she still receives a punishment (sometimes of the “time out” variety, other times by loosing one of her “choices” such as her DVD player).

Would you say that I am NOT a loving father for choosing to punish my child?

On a related question, does the word “justice” mean anything to you?

Amen! I’m glad you brought up both these points, because they are really the only two that matter in regards to this particular argument. Therefore, please allow me to expand upon them for the benefit of those who may not know.

First, we believe that God is both infinitely merciful and infinitely just. How this is possible is somewhat beyond our ability to comprehend, but we believe it just the same.

And second, we don’t call Him “God the Father” for nothing. Yes, He sometimes punishes us, but other times He simply allows us to suffer the natural consequences of our own behavior. If a parent tells their child not to stick a fork in the electrical socket or they will get shocked, and then the child does it and gets shocked, has the parent punished the child by shocking them? Of course not. They warned the child of a consequence, and the child received said consequence. Reading through the Old Testament, it is rather clear when God is referring to a punishment and when He is referring to a consequence. Usually He says, “if you do A, B will happen to you” versus, “if you do A, I will punish you with B”.

 

[CopticOrthodox]

Hey,

I think another explanation could be that Adam represents all mankind. Adam is like the seed and we are the tree, somehow the whole tree is in the seed before it grows.

Sin is being away from God and since God is Life, then sin is death, it’s as simple as that.

Also, we in the Coptic Orthodox church don’t actually believe we inherit the original sin, but rather the consequences of the original sin. When Adam and Eve sinned, they allowed death to come into the world, and corruption…When we are born, we inherit that corrupted nature, just like a mother who has aids, her children would be HIV positive. Through baptism we die to be reborn in Christ, we have a new nature, for the Holy Spirit descends upon us in the Sacrament of Chrismation (with Holy Oil) which in our church is done right after Baptism…

God bless you

 

[emarc]

Hi shiet fellow famdigy ,

When you say “Christian God” does that mean He is not the same as Allah!!!.

this is a good question i’d like famdigy to answer. no muslim i’ve asked had answered this one yet. good to know.
God bless.