F
famdigy
Guest
First off, I want to apologize to Christians on this board for making offensive comments about the Christian faith and clergy, I got my back up when I felt my faith being attacked and responded in kind, in retrospect, I realize it wasn’t the right thing to do and don’t want there to be any animosity between us. I extend the hand of friendship to anyone of any faith 
The question I had for Jews and Christians is about the promise God made to Abraham in Genesis 17:20.
Genesis 17:20 “For Ishmael too I grant you your request. I hereby bless him and will make him fruitful and exceedingly numerous. He will be the father of twelve princes, and I shall make him into a great nation.”
Who are the 12 princes from the children of Ishmael?
The reason I ask this question is because there exists hadiths in both sunni and shii sources that speak about 12 princes / khalifs / imams / leaders.
In fact, ibn Taymiyah, the grand magician of the wahabis who taught them the black arts, asserts that many Jews have converted to Islam because they were searching for the identities of the 12 princes. He says:
“Those (12) who have been spoken about in the hadith of Jabir bin Samura… and many of the Jews who have accepted Islam have in error thought the (12 distinguished persons) were the same ones the rafidha (rejector shia) call upon and followed them in this regard.”
Source - Ibn Kathir, al-bidaya wal-nihaya
Ibn Taymiya is saying that many of the Jews who investigated Islam as they were searching for the 12 princes and converted to Islam have mistakenly followed the wrong path of the shia.
The hadith of Jabir bin Samura is in bukhari and Muslim as follows:
Narrated Jabir bin Samura:
I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, “All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish.”
Source - Sahih Bukhari
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish
Source - Sahih Muslim
The narrations above are in-line with Genesis 17:20, in that the tribe of Quraysh are descendants of Abraham through his son Ishmael, and the 12 rulers will be from this tribe, but just as in Genesis 17:20, their identities and names are obscured, and to this day, the sunni scholars have no explanation for the identities of these 12 rulers.
The shia hadiths on the other hand, identifies all 12 individuals, in a very long hadith
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
“A Jewish man named Na’sal approached and said “Oh Muhammad, I ask you about some questions that are on my mind for some time now, if you answer me all of them I will accept Islam through you (right away)”. The Prophet answered, “ask O father of Ammar”, the man said “describe for me your lorld?”… until he asked “tell me about your successor, for there is no prophet unless he had a successor, and our prophet Moses appointed Yosha’a ben Noon as his successor”, the Prophet answered, my successor is Ali ibn Abi Talib, after him my two grandsons Hassan and Hussein, followed by nine from the descendants of Hussein”, the man said “Oh Muhammad, name them for me”, the prophet answered “If Hussein passes away then his son Ali, if Ali passes away, then his son Muhammad, if he passes away, then his son Ja’far, if he passes away then his son Musa, if he passes away then his son Ali, if he passes away then his son Muhammad, if he passes away then his son Ali, if he passes away then his son Hassan, and if he passes away then his son Al-Hujjah (God’s proof on the earth) Muhammad al-Mahdi, in total they are twelve”…
Source: Fara’id al-sibtain
Going back to the question, who are the 12 princes from the children of Ishmael as described in Genesis 17:20 according to Jews and Christians?
The question I had for Jews and Christians is about the promise God made to Abraham in Genesis 17:20.
Genesis 17:20 “For Ishmael too I grant you your request. I hereby bless him and will make him fruitful and exceedingly numerous. He will be the father of twelve princes, and I shall make him into a great nation.”
Who are the 12 princes from the children of Ishmael?
The reason I ask this question is because there exists hadiths in both sunni and shii sources that speak about 12 princes / khalifs / imams / leaders.
In fact, ibn Taymiyah, the grand magician of the wahabis who taught them the black arts, asserts that many Jews have converted to Islam because they were searching for the identities of the 12 princes. He says:
“Those (12) who have been spoken about in the hadith of Jabir bin Samura… and many of the Jews who have accepted Islam have in error thought the (12 distinguished persons) were the same ones the rafidha (rejector shia) call upon and followed them in this regard.”
Source - Ibn Kathir, al-bidaya wal-nihaya
Ibn Taymiya is saying that many of the Jews who investigated Islam as they were searching for the 12 princes and converted to Islam have mistakenly followed the wrong path of the shia.
The hadith of Jabir bin Samura is in bukhari and Muslim as follows:
Narrated Jabir bin Samura:
I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, “All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish.”
Source - Sahih Bukhari
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish
Source - Sahih Muslim
The narrations above are in-line with Genesis 17:20, in that the tribe of Quraysh are descendants of Abraham through his son Ishmael, and the 12 rulers will be from this tribe, but just as in Genesis 17:20, their identities and names are obscured, and to this day, the sunni scholars have no explanation for the identities of these 12 rulers.
The shia hadiths on the other hand, identifies all 12 individuals, in a very long hadith
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
“A Jewish man named Na’sal approached and said “Oh Muhammad, I ask you about some questions that are on my mind for some time now, if you answer me all of them I will accept Islam through you (right away)”. The Prophet answered, “ask O father of Ammar”, the man said “describe for me your lorld?”… until he asked “tell me about your successor, for there is no prophet unless he had a successor, and our prophet Moses appointed Yosha’a ben Noon as his successor”, the Prophet answered, my successor is Ali ibn Abi Talib, after him my two grandsons Hassan and Hussein, followed by nine from the descendants of Hussein”, the man said “Oh Muhammad, name them for me”, the prophet answered “If Hussein passes away then his son Ali, if Ali passes away, then his son Muhammad, if he passes away, then his son Ja’far, if he passes away then his son Musa, if he passes away then his son Ali, if he passes away then his son Muhammad, if he passes away then his son Ali, if he passes away then his son Hassan, and if he passes away then his son Al-Hujjah (God’s proof on the earth) Muhammad al-Mahdi, in total they are twelve”…
Source: Fara’id al-sibtain
Going back to the question, who are the 12 princes from the children of Ishmael as described in Genesis 17:20 according to Jews and Christians?
