Question to Pro choice Christians

[estesbob]

We are not so advanced that we are immune to the problems caused by shortages of people or food. We certainly could let nature take care of the excess people through starvation, disease, etc, but since we are capable of understanding the causes of our problems, we are also capable of taking measures to solve them.

Do you believe such a person exists? Skills don’t have to be job skills.

Also, we do allow capital punishment.

. You have already said that taking human life is perfectly okay if you can economically justifiy it . Your attempt to try to set an age limit on when such killing can take place is specious.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

so if the situation allowed you would be ok with infanticide?
they also have to get past the point that they are killing Humans.

“if the situation allowed.” More like if our society was dependent on the practice, then instead of suddenly outlawing it, we should attempt to convince people not to do so. Then, once the elimination of the practice wouldn’t be disruptive, we could more seriously consider outlawing it.

However, as it stands, infanticide is illegal and highly frowned upon. Suddenly legalizing it would be just as disruptive as suddenly outlawing abortion.

 

[catholictiger]

“if the situation allowed.” More like if our society was dependent on the practice, then instead of suddenly outlawing it, we should attempt to convince people not to do so. Then, once the elimination of the practice wouldn’t be disruptive, we could more seriously consider outlawing it.

However, as it stands, infanticide is illegal and highly frowned upon. Suddenly legalizing it would be just as disruptive as suddenly outlawing abortion.

do you have personal views on this stuff or do you just focus on society because every question I bring up instead of bringing up your own personal opinion you bring up what it would be like in society or something. I’m sure you have some personal opinions on this like is infanticide bad or abortion is ok stuff like.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

do you have personal views on this stuff or do you just focus on society because every question I bring up instead of bringing up your own personal opinion you bring up what it would be like in society or something. I’m sure you have some personal opinions on this like is infanticide bad or abortion is ok stuff like.

I don’t like alcohol’s influence on society, but I don’t want to bring back prohibition. In the same way, I don’t like abortion but don’t think the US is ready for it to be illegal.

 

[catholictiger]

I don’t like alcohol’s influence on society, but I don’t want to bring back prohibition. In the same way, I don’t like abortion but don’t think the US is ready for it to be illegal.

why don’t you like abortion?

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

why don’t you like abortion?

They seem wasteful. There are cheaper and easier ways to avoid unwanted children.

 

[catholictiger]

They seem wasteful. There are cheaper and easier ways to avoid unwanted children.

so it has nothing to do with what is inside the womb?

 

[RosaryFan]

As soon as underpopulation becomes a problem, then I would expect the state to adopt somewhat different policies, but underpopulation is not currently a problem.

No, murdering a convenience store clerk disrupts society because the clerk represents skills and relationships that are cut from society. Society suffers when it constantly has to replace these and when people can’t count on sustained relationships. Abortion is different because there are no relationships (the fetus is unwanted) and no significant material investment in the fetus.

Oh, are you one of those people who are duped into believing the world has an overpopulation problem? Ugh! Did you think of that all on your own, or are you just giving in to what popular media says you should think?

 

[estesbob]

They seem wasteful. There are cheaper and easier ways to avoid unwanted children.

What could possibly be cheaper than paying someone a few hundred bucks to kill your child and dispose of the body for you?

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Oh, are you one of those people who are duped into believing the world has an overpopulation problem? Ugh! Did you think of that all on your own, or are you just giving in to what popular media says you should think?

I didn’t say there was an overpopulation problem. Just that underpopulation is not. Certain areas of the world do have a population density problem.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

What could possibly be cheaper than paying someone a few hundred bucks to kill your child and dispose of the body for you?

A few cents to buy a condom?

 

[mritosa]

The personal morality of all thread participants is either well declared or unimportant for the debate at hand. Whether to not TrueCentrist believes that abortion is wrong is irrelevant. The truth is that his arguments are libertarian, utilitarian, logical, and, commendably, civil. These are not easy arguments to face for a population undereducated in the one true faith.

TrueCentrist has removed God from the created world. Without God as creator, there are no purposes beyond what can be taken in through the senses. The conflict, as I see it, is that the removal of God can only be so incomplete as to leave life that is in everyone who has been a part of this conversation and God’s law written on each of our souls. Thus, CatholicTiger has picked up on this conflict, and we should really start with this base conflict of whether or not our essential humanity would exist outside of God’s creation.

 

[Gift_from_God]

Did the Virgin Mary have a “choice” when she became pregnant with Jesus?

Yes

She was asked whether or not she wanted to be Christ’s mother

 

[Gift_from_God]

I just realized that the question was whether or not Mary had a choice after she became pregnant. Legally and scientifically, no, she did not. Even if she did, God probably wouldn’t have chosen someone who would get an abortion. God is pretty well-known for not making mistakes

 

[ChristisRisen32]

I think a lot of you misunderstood my question to Pro Choice Christians. I was asking if Mary had a “choice” to have an abortion. Would it be immoral if Mary got an abortion with Jesus in the womb? If so, why for that case but not with women who do it now?

God Bless

 

[RosaryFan]

I think a lot of you misunderstood my question to Pro Choice Christians. I was asking if Mary had a “choice” to have an abortion. Would it be immoral if Mary got an abortion with Jesus in the womb? If so, why for that case but not with women who do it now?

God Bless

Everyone has a “choice” to kill anyone they please (Mary included). Of course, this “choice” is also known as free will. In “choosing” to kill another human being, we risk suffering the consequences of imprisonment (if the act is deemed murderous), as well as the loss of eternal life. In the case of abortion, it is no longer against the law (unfortunately), so the consequences for this act of killing is limited to risking loss of eternal life.

Mary would not have chosen to abort because she was free from the stain of original sin and, therefore, free of concupiscence (our tendency to choose evil). So if abortion had been legal, she would not have chosen to abort. However, Mary had the same free will as any other human being. The difference is she was incapable of choosing evil.

I understand completely what you are getting at, and I would be curious to hear how a pro-abortionist would answer your question.

So if abortion is “okay” today, why wouldn’t it have been “okay” for Mary?

 

[ChristisRisen32]

Everyone has a “choice” to kill anyone they please (Mary included). Of course, this “choice” is also known as free will. In “choosing” to kill another human being, we risk suffering the consequences of imprisonment (if the act is deemed murderous), as well as the loss of eternal life. In the case of abortion, it is no longer against the law (unfortunately), so the consequences for this act of killing is limited to risking loss of eternal life.

Mary would not have chosen to abort because she was free from the stain of original sin and, therefore, free of concupiscence (our tendency to choose evil). So if abortion had been legal, she would not have chosen to abort. However, Mary had the same free will as any other human being. The difference is she was incapable of choosing evil.

I understand completely what you are getting at, and I would be curious to hear how a pro-abortionist would answer your question.

So if abortion is “okay” today, why wouldn’t it have been “okay” for Mary?

Yes thank you! I think a lot of pro choice Christians would say this case was different because Mary chose actively to be the Mother of Jesus when asked. But that’s not different to those who willingly and knowingly choose to have sex fully knowing the consequences.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony