Question to Protestants: Apostolic Succession

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Ephraim the Syrian

“[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the first-born in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures” (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

Ambrose of Milan

“[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . .’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?” (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

Pope Damasus I

“Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: 'You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18-19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it” (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

Jerome

“‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division” (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).
 
Jerome

“Simon Peter, the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion . . . pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to over-throw Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord” (Lives of Illustrious Men 1 [A.D. 396]).

Pope Innocent I

“In seeking the things of God . . . you have acknowledged that judgment is to be referred to us [the pope], and have shown that you know that is owed to the Apostolic See [Rome], if all of us placed in this position are to desire to follow the Apostle himself [Peter] from whom the episcopate itself and the total authority of this name have emerged” (Letters 29:1 [A.D. 408]).

Augustine

“Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear 'I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

Augustine

“Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies” (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415])

Augustine

“Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?” (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).
 
Council of Ephesus

“Philip, presbyter and legate of [Pope Celestine I] said: ‘We offer our thanks to the holy and venerable synod, that when the writings of our holy and blessed pope had been read to you . . . you joined yourselves to the holy head also by your holy acclamations. For your blessedness is not ignorant that the head of the whole faith, the head of the Apostles, is blessed Peter the Apostle’” (Acts of the Council, session 2 [A.D. 431]).

Council of Ephesus

“Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome] said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the Apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’” (ibid., session 3).
 
Pope Leo I

“Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . has placed the principal charge on the blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles, and from him as from the head wishes his gifts to flow to all the body, so that anyone who dares to secede from Peter’s solid rock may understand that he has no part or lot in the divine mystery. He wished him who had been received into partnership in his undivided unity to be named what he himself was, when he said: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18], that the building of the eternal temple might rest on Peter’s solid rock, strengthening his Church so surely that neither could human rashness assail it nor the gates of hell prevail against it” (Letters 10:1 [A.D. 445).

“Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . established the worship belonging to the divine [Christian] religion . . . But the Lord desired that the sacrament of this gift should pertain to all the apostles in such a way that it might be found principally in the most blessed Peter, the highest of all the apostles. And he wanted his gifts to flow into the entire body from Peter himself, as if from the head, in such a way that anyone who had dared to separate himself from the solidarity of Peter would realize that he was himself no longer a sharer in the divine mystery” (ibid., 10:2-3).

“Although bishops have a common dignity, they are not all of the same rank. Even among the most blessed apostles, though they were alike in honor, there was a certain distinction of power. All were equal in being chosen, but it was given to one to be preeminent over the others. . . . [So today through the bishops] the care of the universal Church would converge in the one See of Peter, and nothing should ever be at odds with this head” (ibid., 14:11).

Pope Leo I

“[T]he blessed Peter persevering in the strength of the Rock, which he has received, has not abandoned the helm of the Church, which he understood. For he was ordained before the rest in such a way that from his being called the rock, from his being pronounced the foundation, from his being constituted the doorkeeper of the kingdom of heaven, from his being set as the umpire to bind and loose, whose judgments shall retain their validity in heaven, from all these mystical titles we might know the nature of his association with Christ” (Sermons 3:2-3 [A.D. 450]).
 
So to be clear, the position held by some here is that when Jesus prayed for unity in the Gospels, he really wanted His Church, here on earth, to be divided? Because when one makes a statement that the “gates of hell did not prevail” against the Church because “the reformation took place despite the best efforts of the RCC” it gives the impression that you actually agree with/support the schisms, heresies, development of pseudo-Christian denmominations, no sacraments, openly gay clergy, abortion, etc. not to mention tens of thousands of “Christian” churches, congregations and denominations that the world has as a result of this so called reformation/lack of unity. If that’s what you really believe, than please share with the rest of us which of these “reformed” traditions is the one Jesus actually had in mind, and then tell us how you know that. I want to know by what method and whose authority you make your claims, because I know the Christian Church today has its roots in the Roman Catholic Church, yet this divisiveness is NOT what Jesus had in mind.
Thanks for entertaining my comments and questions.

Peace…
 
Binky Brown

How can you say the catholic church failed but the christian church did not? That was impossible because they were the same thing. Until the great schism in the 11th century after Christ there was only one church. It was called the catholic church.

FORMULA OF POPE HORMISDAS ! !

The most obvious example is “The formula of Hormisdas” [AD 519] It so clearly stated the primacy and infallibility of the Roman See that from that day to the time of the Vatican Council, it has been a powerful weapon in the arsenal of Roman Catholic orthodoxy. It was subscribed to by the patriarch of Constantinople, it swept the East and in the end was signed by 2,500 eastern and Greek bishops. "The patriarch of Constantinople, and all the Eastern Bishops signed the formula of Hormisdas, who was Pope from 514 to 523. That formula contained these words, ‘We follow the Apostolic See in everything and teach all its laws. I hope to be in that one Communiion taughtby the Apostolic See in which is the whole, real and perfectg solidity of the Christian religion.’ Dean Milman writes, ‘Before the end of the third century the lineal descent of Rome’s Bishops from St. Peter was unhesitatingly claimed and obsequiously admitted by the Christian world.’ (Radio Replies, 1942,p. 306-307 Vol. 2.) the following statements are direct quotes from this fantastic document.

+++Formula of Pope Hormisdas", AD 519,

“Because the statement of our Lord Jesus Christ, when He said, “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church,” etc., cannot be set aside; this, which is said, is proved by the results; for in the Apostolic See religion has always been preserved without spot… In which (See) is set the perfect and true solidity of the Christian religion.”(from the “Formula of Pope Hormisdas”, AD 519, )

+++Formula of Pope Hormisdas", AD 519,

“In the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been kept undefiled and her holy doctrine proclaimed. Desiring, therefore, not to be in the least degree separated from the faith and doctrine of that See, we hope that we may deserve to be in the one communion with you which the Apostolic See preaches, in which is the entire and true solidity of the Christian religion: promising also that the names of those who are cut off from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, not consentient with the Apostolic See, shall not be recited during the sacred mysteries. This is my profession, I have subscribed with my own hand, and delivered to you Hormisdas, the holy and venerable pope of the city of Rome.” (from the “Formula of Pope Hormisdas”, AD 519, )
 
WHAT DO THE GREEK FATHERS SAY?

+++Not only did the vast majority of Greek and eastern bishops (including the patriarch of Constantinople) signed this document confessing openly the authority of Rome. But we also have a number of other statements from Greek Saints ,patriarch’s of Constantinople, Emperors of the eastern Roman Empire , popes and church councils declaring Rome’s position as the head of the church which Christ founded.

+++Emperor Valentinian III, AD 445

"The primacy of the Apostolic See having been established by the merit of the Apostle Peter, by the dignity of the city of Rome, and by the authority of the holy Synod, no pretended power shall arrogate to itself anything against the authority of that See. For peace can be universally preserved only when the whole Church acknowledges its ruler. "(,Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 335f)

+++Emperor Justinian I, AD 520-533

"Nor do we allow that any of these things, concerning ecclesiastical institution, should fail to be brought before his Holiness, as being the head of all the holy Priests of God… "(Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess )

+++Emperor Justinian I, AD 520-533

"For we do not allow of any point, however manifest and indisputable it be, which relates to the state of the Churches, not being brought to the cognizance of your Holiness, since you are the Head of all holy churches. "(,Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess )

+++Pope Pelagius II, circa AD 579-590

“Since the authority of convoking General Synods by a singular privilege has been delivered to the Apostolic See of Blessed Peter, and we do not read that any synod was ever considered ratified which was not supported by Apostolic authority.” (,Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 348)
 
+++St. Maximus the Confessor, of Constantinople, AD 650,

"The extremities of the earth, and everyone in every part of it who purely and rightly confess the Lord, look directly towards the Most Holy Roman Church and her confession and faith, as to a sun of unfailing light, awaiting from there the brilliant radiance of the sacred dogmas of our Fathers, according to that which the inspired and holy Councils have stainlessly and piously decreed. For, from the descent of the Incarnate Word amongst us, all the churches in every part of the world have held that greatest Church alone to be their base and foundation, seeing that, according to the promise of Christ Our Savior, the gates of hell never prevail against her, that she has the keys of orthodox confession and right faith in Him, that she opens the true and exclusive religion to such men as approach with piety, and she shuts up and locks every heretical mouth which speaks against the Most High. " ( Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 272)

+++St. Maximus the Confessor, of Constantinople, AD 650,

"For he only speaks in vain who thinks he ought to persuade or entrap persons like myself, and does not satisfy and implore the blessed Pope of the most holy Church of the Romans, that is, the Apostolic See, which from the incarnate Son of God Himself, and also by all holy synods, according to the holy canons and definitions has received universal and supreme dominion, authority and power of binding and loosing over all the holy Churches of God which are in the whole world. "(Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess pp 354f)

+++St. Pope Agatho, AD 680,

“This Apostolic Church never turned away from the way of truth nor held any kind of error. This is the rule of faith. All who wish to please God must study to conform the Apostolic rule of the primitive faith founded on the rock Peter, and kept by him from error.” ( Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 276)

+++St. Theodore of Studios to the Emperor Michael and Constantinople, circa AD 800,

"Order that the declaration from old Rome be received, as was the custom by the tradition of our Fathers from of old and from the beginning. For this, O Emperor, is the highest of the Churches of God, in which first Peter held the chair… "( Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 279)
 
+++St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople, AD 758-828

“Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Roman Pontiffs) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles.” ( Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy, by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess p 356)

+++The Council of Africa AD 646

"No one can doubt that there is in the Apostolic See a great unfailing fountain, pouring forth waters for all Christians; whence rich streams proceed, bountifully irrigating the whole Christian World; to which See also, in honour of blessed Peter, the decrees of the Fathers gave special veneration in searching out the things of God, which ought by all means to be carefully examined; and above all, and justly, by the Apostolic Head of Bishops, whose care from of old it is, as well to condemn evils as to commend the things that are to be praised. For by the ancient discipline it is ordained that whatsoever be done, even in provinces remote and afar off, shall neither be treated of nor accepted, unless it be first brought to the knowledge of your August See, so that a just sentence may be confirmed by its authority, and that the other Churches may thence receive the original preaching as from its native source, and that the mysteries of saving faith may remain in uncorrupt purity throughout the various regions of the world. "(Three Councils of Africa, in their Synodical letter sent to Pope Theodore, and read in the Council of Rome under Martin I, AD 646, )
 
All of the quotes from my last four posts have been of Greek fathers pre Great schism. This shows that the pope had the same power in the third, fourth, and fifth centuries that he has now.
 
I DON’T SEE ANY REPLY FROM BINKY BROWN WITH THE MANY POSTS ABOVE. WHERE IS SHE??? ANY ANSWER, YUHOO?? WHERE ARE YOU???:dancing:

PIO
 
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hlgomez:
I DON’T SEE ANY REPLY FROM BINKY BROWN WITH THE MANY POSTS ABOVE. WHERE IS SHE??? ANY ANSWER, YUHOO?? WHERE ARE YOU???:dancing:

PIO
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I commented about this on a very similar post on another thread. Are statements like this Christian or necessary? The dancing emoticon really throws me off. It seems to me that if I thought that someone was mislead the last thing that I would want to happen is for them to disembark. You have just lost an opportunity to help someone.

Feed the hungry, do not slap them with food and rejoice when they turn in dismay.
 
Shibboleth,

I agree.

If we hold that we have the truth, then we must be even more humble.

Was not Jesus the most humble when presenting His case?

Pio, I ask that you take another look at how you are spreading the truth. With humility? Or Arrogance?
 
Binky Brown:
As you cited scripture as your source, any such authority to support your proposition must appear explicitly within scripture. Not inferred. Not implied. Explicitly and expressly stated.
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Can you show me where it is “explicitly and expressly stated within Scripture” that Peter was never a bishop, was not Bishop of Rome, did not enjoy primacy as a pontiff, and that there is no Petrine succession? Hmm, just as I thought…

Binky Brown said:
(BTW… the fact that you attempt to gleen your authority for Petrine succession within scripture is a de facto admission of scripture as the final authority in matters of doctrine…but perhaps that’s a subject for another thread.)
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Far from it! As has been so ably demonstrated by other posters on this thread, I could also have shown this from Sacred Tradition or Magisterial Teaching – but my guess was that you would not have considered these other sources to be as authoritative as Sacred Scripture (if indeed you even consider them authoritative at all).

And anyway, since the canon of Scripture wasn’t finalized until the fourth century, it’s pretty clear (to me at least) that there can’t be Sacred Scripture apart from Sacred Tradition or Magisterial Teaching…and yes, that’s a subject already covered by other threads!
 
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