Question to Protestants...

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joshua_b:
I will concede that many of my Catholic bretheren (myself included) are not near as adept at reciting Scripture as our Protestant friends, but I take exception to the attitude that Catholics “dont know the Bible” and that “Catholicism is not based on Scripture” or “doesn’t view Scripture as important”. Are there any Protestants out there who can offer some reasons as to why this attitude seems to be so pervasive, or, if any Protestants out there agree with this opinion, give me some insight as to why they perceive the Catholic Church in this light ?
I don’t think it’s a fair characterization at all. Think about this. The Liturgy of the Word consists of a three year cycle. In that three years, all of the Gospels and NT, as well as most of the major stories of the OT are read, including the Psalms. If you pay attention and read along at Mass, by the time you’re 36 you’ve heard/read the entire bible 10 times (assuming your reading at age six), 5 times at 21. Round figures here, so cut me some slack. But that’s quite a bit of scripture “study”.

When I committed my life to Christ at age 17, and very on-fire for God that I was, I could quote a lot of Scripture - all of which I had heard at Mass, because I hadn’t really read it outside of Church. My friends that I “preached” to were actually very impressed with my knowledge. I didn’t know how I knew what I knew at the time. (Hey - osmosis really works - I should have put my history book under my pillow) Due to family circumstances, I had only 2 real years of CCD, and what I was taught there was so watered down it doesn’t count.

Now, I can’t quote chapter and verse, but I can relate stories when I have to. Catholics know their bible, they just don’t realize it - IF they’ve been paying attention.
 
I think I would concur with that. The big IF is the one that tends to be our downfall. I hear of people all the time leaving the Catholic Church claiming a lack of Scripture as their primary reason. And the only thing I can think is “WHAT IN THE WORLD HAVE YOU BEEN DOING DURING MASS ALL THOSE YEARS ?!?!?!?!” That’s why I was hoping that some of our Protestant bretheren on here could give me examples of how much Scripture they include in their services. It would seem to me if the Bible is what you’re after, the Catholic Church is the place to be. By doing NOTHING more than coming to Mass, you get the entire Bible over and over again. Even if someone never learned to read, or never personally owned a Bible in their entire life, they would still learn the Word of God, through nothing more than mere attendance. The more I examine and reflect on the structure and ritual (and rules) of the Catholic Church (remember that attendance at Mass is obligatory), the more I see the beauty that I feel can only be explained by Divine Institution.
 
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Trick:
I would certainly encourage your girl friend’s mom to read Holy Scripture and I know the Church does encourage us as Catholics to read scripture.

Trick
originally posted by BennyD

thanks trick. I will!! 😃 😉 :rolleyes: :o 👍 :cool:
And I hope you encourage her to look to fellow Catholics for the teachings and interpretation of that Scripture if she has questions?

God Bless,
Maria
 
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BrianH:
This board has very knowledgeable people when it concerns scripture, I still assume they are the exception.
BH
Who cares if the people on here are the exception? We don’t *need * to know the Scriptures or even own a Bible to attain salvation.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Who cares if the people on here are the exception? We don’t *need * to know the Scriptures or even own a Bible to attain salvation.
VERY good point. Too many Protestants get wrapped around reading the scriptures as a requirement to attain salvation. Indeed, what if the person can’t read? What if they are too poor to own a bible, or it is against the law to own one, and they are scarce (think China or Saudi Arabia)?
 
swnunley said:
VERY good point. Too many Protestants get wrapped around reading the scriptures as a requirement to attain salvation. Indeed, what if the person can’t read? What if they are too poor to own a bible, or it is against the law to own one, and they are scarce (think China or Saudi Arabia)?

I don’t know of any Protestant that believes reading the bible is required for salvation. For many, it may have been necessary in learning about the Gospel, thus believing and being saved. Yet even if it were a requirement, I don’t know why you would try to come up with a bunch of hypothetical situations when you can do the very same for your beliefs. The Eucharist is a requirement to attain salvation, but what if you are stranded on a desert island with no priest and no Eucharist? Baptism is a requirement, but what if there is no water for miles and you die? (baptism of desire, I think it is?)

Speaking of requirements for salvation, don’t you find it a bit disconcerting that when the jailer asked Paul and Silas what was required for salvation, they did not list off the seven sacraments. Rather, they said “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Belief - ie faith - comes before everything else, and that is what saves, according to scripture.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Who cares if the people on here are the exception? We don’t *need * to know the Scriptures or even own a Bible to attain salvation.
**
OP**
“I will concede that many of my Catholic bretheren (myself included) are not near as adept at reciting Scripture as our Protestant friends, but I take exception to the attitude that Catholics “dont know the Bible” and that “Catholicism is not based on Scripture” or “doesn’t view Scripture as important”. Are there any Protestants out there who can offer some reasons as to why this attitude seems to be so pervasive,”

**The “who cares” is the OP question. I answered the question about why it was a pervasive attitude. ** If you get from my comment that a person needs to know the scriptures or even own a Bible to be saved…you might be reading a little too much into my giving an opinion to a question being asked…you think???

BH
 
swnunley said:
VERY good point. Too many Protestants get wrapped around reading the scriptures as a requirement to attain salvation. Indeed, what if the person can’t read? What if they are too poor to own a bible, or it is against the law to own one, and they are scarce (think China or Saudi Arabia)?

It should be obvious. They are lost. :rolleyes:

You are setting up a straw man that I do not think anyone would contend actually exists. I have never heard literacy as a requirement for salvation. Have you?
BH
 
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BrianH:
I have never heard literacy as a requirement for salvation. Have you?
BH
If the Bible alone is needed to know the will of God (the how-to of salvation), then you have to be able to read it or have someone else read it to you, right?
 
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JSmitty2005:
Who cares if the people on here are the exception? We don’t *need * to know the Scriptures or even own a Bible to attain salvation.
You may be right, but a quote of St. Jerome which was highlighted in a Vatican II document is

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.”

The point is that the Catholic Church encourages, as it always has, the reading of Scripture but the importance put on Scripture by the Church has not trickled down to the Bishops and priests. Our catechesis has been below par for the last 50 years or so and it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
 
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JSmitty2005:
If the Bible alone is needed to know the will of God (the how-to of salvation), then you have to be able to read it or have someone else read it to you, right?
So…before I answer your statement as it relates to post 65, you DO agree I was just answering the original questions as I stated to you in post 64?
BH
 
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volzcpa:
You may be right, but a quote of St. Jerome which was highlighted in a Vatican II document is

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.”

The point is that the Catholic Church encourages, as it always has, the reading of Scripture but the importance put on Scripture by the Church has not trickled down to the Bishops and priests. Our catechesis has been below par for the last 50 years or so and it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
Of course the Church encourages reading of the Scriptures, and I personally love that quote of St. Jerome’s, but that does not mean that the Bible is necessary. What about in the early Church before all the books were even written? How about when the Church had to sort through 250-350 books that were claiming to be inspired? What about the fact that 9/10 people for most of the history of Christianity were illiterate? How about the fact that a Bible cost about 3 years wages to buy because 1 sheep or deer had to die for every page (there were about 1000 pages) and a monk had to sit down and transcribe it all for 3 years? It wasn’t until the printing press was invented that the laity had much access to the Bible. (BTW, the first book to come off the printing press was the Catholic Bible 😉 ) Even then, many people were still uneducated and illiterate. Also, if they could read, they could read Latin. 👍 Anyways, I’m just trying to show that to build the Church on a book would have been a stupid idea. Christians didn’t need it for most of the history of Christendom, and we don’t need it now. Don’t get me wrong, the Scriptures are extremely important and the Church has always revered them, but all I’m saying is that they are not absolutely necessary for our salvation especially considering their history, that’s all.
 
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Archbishop:
In many Protestant churches, particularly those who are evangelical in nature, there is an emphasis on systematic preaching and teaching of the Scriptures. We call this expository preaching. For example, preaching through books of the Bible, or preaching a series of messages on certain doctrines such as election, predestination, the second coming, the Levitical Offerings, Spiritual Gifts, the Sermon on the Mount, etc.

→ Yup this is what we practise in our churches, but we do not realize 100% on our pastor, after which we still need to refer back to the bible on the teaching , mediate and pray for the anoiting. because pastor are also human, will too make mistake. But the anoiting from god is forever the true.

Generally this is not done in Catholic pulpits due to the nature of the homilies. (The same can be said for many Protestant churches that follow the lectionary.) Thus, when preaching is done by skipping around, there tends to be less continuity to what the people know about the Bible unless they study it in depth on their own.

→ Well i guess that only applies to US catholic not catholic from the rest of the world, in fact in my country…protestant bible knowledge are even stronger then catholic in my place…because they do not read bible daily and do not bring bible for their mass…they is a time when i encourage one of my catholic frez to read the 4 gospel in new test, he asked me which 4 gospel??

My own experience in Catholic churches is that the priests talk as if they have not even studied the text they were preaching from. The homily is usually a feel good talk that may not even reference the readings for the day. There is no real explanation of the Scriptures. There was one exception at a church near St. Louis. The priest was a very good preacher and I actually heard the gospel presented there.

I know I will hear excuses about how the main thing at Mass is the Eucharist, etc, etc. and that Bible study is done at other times. Well, the Mass is a service of both Word and Sacrament. I think many priests forget that and focus on the Sacrament only.

I encourage my people to bring their Bibles anyway and to take notes. The sermons are recorded and put up on the Internet and my sermon notes are emailed to people after the service. This way we ensure that the parishioners are getting study materials and have something to look at, read, or listen to during the week.

→ Yup this is what i’m practising now, is like going to school writing note when the lecturer teach. In fact one of the church in my country ; their service is bible studying…thus when i chat with them they are very good with the bible knowledge and use that to apply in real life situation for encouragement and stuff like that. In fact this particular church members are forever hungry for sermons. After every service they will listen to whatever sermon they can find on the net…
 
We have to be careful how we judge that a person is knowledgable on the bible. I think that both Protestants and Catholics in this country are uninformed on the content of their bibles.

There is sometimes the mistaken belief that a person who can rapid fire quote verses at someone has read and studied their bible. This is not always true. I have found that often when you ask such a person a question about a verse that they haven’t memorized then they tend to draw a blank. While attending an Independent Baptist Church, I got the opportunity to assist in teaching the younger kids. I was very distressed that instead of teaching them the bible itself, we crammed bible memorization down their throats. Take my word for it, those children had no understanding of many of the verses that they were quoting.

During the sermons the congregation would take notes. I was always impressed by this, but afterwards when I asked questions, most of these same people could not go beyond what the pastor spoke about. There were bible studies but we were learning the pastor’s interpretation and verses that supported his view, not the actual bible.
 
Hello Happygal,

I highlighted this from your quotes.

because they do not read bible daily and do not bring bible for their mass…they is a time when i encourage one of my catholic frez to read the 4 gospel in new test, he asked me which 4 gospel??

Please continue to encourage people to read the bible. I am always reminding my neighbor, who is not Catholic, that we should start reading our bibles more often.

I would like to point out to you that Catholics have missals. The day’s bible reading are in each missal. We have three bible readings a day, one from the Old Testament, One from the Epistles and one from The Gospels. Having the bible in the missals is wonderful. At my previous church, we had to flip through our bibles, searching for the correct verse. IT was often distracting to hear the people behind me whisper, “Which verse are we on?” In fact, now I often don’t look in the missal during the reading. I try to simply listen as the verses are being spoken.

This might help your Catholic friend understand which section is the Gospel. During the mass when the Gospel is read, Catholics stand and the priest does the reading. Perhaps if you point this out to your Catholic friend he will understand what you are speaking about.
 
Le Cracquere:
Well, the original poster was asking for a Protestant perspective. And by nearly any Protestant church’s standards, Catholicism exerts a tremendous amount of direct influence over its members’ lives, and has very effective lines of communication. Not every Catholic obeys the Church’s teaching on sexuality and other matters, but even disobedient Catholics know what the Church has to say about that. In many Protestants’ view, a worldwide organisation with the power to disseminate encyclicals, papal directives, bulls, &c., and have their contents become general knowledge within the Church, could probably enjoin or at least talk up the desirability of reading the Bible if it cared about such things.

→ Yup i agree Protestantism/Catholicism does exerts a tremendous influence over the member’s live and has effective communication. But all i can say is whether individual would like to follow this form of communication!! We are all human, no matter how your church teaches you, some pple just got stray…In fact when i’m stil an ignorant protestant, i was told by one of my catholic frez , they are more holier then us, and have many practises which they need to abide…like the view towards marriage, fasting…etc…unlike we protestant.

As for bible reading, well in have been tradition for catholic since few centuary back that they are ban from reading the bible, bcoz the priet find that commoner might not able to understand the deep of scripture and might misinterpret it…but to what i know…lately their priest have started catholic believer to read their bible regularly…whether anot individual wanted to pick up the habit is all up to them. To what i know…catholic need to attend daily mass for 2yrs to cover almost the entire bible preaching. But the question i always wanted to ask catholic believer is…i understand they have their so call missal during mass, they listen and understand what the priest preach…so one week later they have another section…so on so forth…but what will they do after listening to such sermon?? Do they refer back to the bible on the teaching for that day?? I doubt so!!! And how can one ensure they remember everything the priest teaches?? Since they only attend Sunday Mass!!! In fact i told my catholic frez to read bible after every mass, refer back to the versue that their priest have taught them, drop down note , mediate those words and try to apply it to their daily life if possible. Else what’s the point for attending mass every week and do not remember a single thing of god’s word!!! The foundation of the bible knowledge is very important to all christian, we need not only the priest or pastor to interpret it, but one need to mediate those versue and pray to god for the direction. Don’t simply ensure that all the teaching from the pastor/priest are correct…don’t forget they are human too!!!

Is only when i came across lately two catholic couple are facing terrible divorce due to both husband/wife committed what they call mortal sin adultery, then i was like HUH!!! though catholic pple are very holy …So when questioned my frez…he keep quite…so i tell him, don’t go around telling pple catholic are holy when such thing does happen…at time it does make pple sick!!!

I’m fond of poetry too, but it seems a little odd to Christians from other traditions that a pastor’s interest in it should be more apparent than his interest in Scripture and its context. Your eyebrow would probably raise if I said “My accountants have varied a lot: some of them emphasized the tax system, and some didn’t so much.” Or, “my first optometrist was more interested in folk music than the human eyeball.” Some things, in some callings, just shouldn’t be “a great variable.”
 
Robert in SD:
Christ is not present in scripture in the same Real way that He is in the Eucharist. So, it’s not the same thing. I respectfully disagree with your comparison of bible readings to Real food. The difference is as great as talking with a person versus listening to a recorded message.
That is borderline heresy - Christ is the logos. Scripture is not dead nor a “recorded message” - it’s alive by the action and inspiration of the Spirit. Between the quote given by St. Jerome, and the more recent quote of Raymond Brown (Catholic bible scholar and priest) - The Word is Christ. Liturgically speaking, the Word and the Sacrament are on the same plane and complement each other - a mass is incomplete without both. The Word includes the presence of Christ, and the Sacrament presents Christ’s presence and recalls the mighty acts of Christ as recorded in the Word.
 
O.S. Luke:
That is borderline heresy - Christ is the logos. Scripture is not dead nor a “recorded message” - it’s alive by the action and inspiration of the Spirit. Between the quote given by St. Jerome, and the more recent quote of Raymond Brown (Catholic bible scholar and priest) - The Word is Christ. Liturgically speaking, the Word and the Sacrament are on the same plane and complement each other - a mass is incomplete without both. The Word includes the presence of Christ, and the Sacrament presents Christ’s presence and recalls the mighty acts of Christ as recorded in the Word.
The Word made flesh! 🙂
 
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