Question with Women and Abortion

[ryecroft]

I’m very aware that this is a Catholic thread, but I do have a question about women and abortion. Why is it that so many on here think that because a woman has an abortion or terminates a pregnancy that she’s going to go through this horrible break down or suffer emotionally later in life for having had one or more? Personally, I happen to know quite a few people who had abortionds and I’m here to tell you the they may wish they hadn’t gotten pregnant, but they don’t regret having had an abortion one bit. Granted in some cases it saved their lives/health. Others it allowed to stay in school or continue with careers. I bring this up because two are not Catholic and I’ve been asked a couple of times “are Catholics trying to convince women if they have an abortion they’ll suffer emotionally later?” I told them, it’s not something I’m trying to do, but I really am beginning to question if this is something that Priests for lilfe and some other organizations are doing. Don’t get me wrong, I realize there are plenty out there that do regret having had an abortion but do some of these organizations understand that there are probably just as many who are greatful they were able to have abortions? I’m not trying to get into a debate about abortion being right or wrong - I’m rather trying to find out if this is one of the methods that are being used to attempt to prevent women from having abortions. Just when I read some of these threads, it seems assumed that ANY woman that has an abortion will either regret t horribly or suffer some type of horrible emotional pain later in life. I don’t think (if this is being used as a method to try to prevent women) that it should be used as when I’ve heard it spoken or written about seems to take the wole of women who have had abortions and generalizes what might happen.

 

[1ke]

I’m very aware that this is a Catholic thread, but I do have a question about women and abortion. Why is it that so many on here think that because a woman has an abortion or terminates a pregnancy that she’s going to go through this horrible break down or suffer emotionally later in life for having had one or more?

It is not what people “think” it is what numerous long-term studies demonstrate statistically. There are many psychologists who have studied women who had abortions versus those who did not have abortions. The findings are quite striking in terms of the large percentage who suffer from PSTD, self-destructive behaviors, commit suicide, have clinical depression, and become victims of violence/homicide. The results indicate these are statistically significant findings.

These are the same types of findings that, in a medical setting for something like cancer, would make you put down the fruit loops if the results showed the same type of statistically elevated link between eating fruit loops and cancer.

Also, we have the testimony of the women who make up the Silent No More campaign, who reveal that they suffered silently for years putting on the “everything is fine” face while inside they were dieing. www.silentnomoreawareness.org

Personally, I happen to know quite a few people who had abortionds and I’m here to tell you the they may wish they hadn’t gotten pregnant, but they don’t regret having had an abortion one bit. Granted in some cases it saved their lives/health. Others it allowed to stay in school or continue with careers. I bring this up because two are not Catholic and I’ve been asked a couple of times “are Catholics trying to convince women if they have an abortion they’ll suffer emotionally later?” I told them, it’s not something I’m trying to do, but I really am beginning to question if this is something that Priests for lilfe and some other organizations are doing.

I think you overestimate the lack of impact abortion has had on these women. I think you also have the false idea that this is some made up thing on the part of Catholics.

Don’t get me wrong, I realize there are plenty out there that do regret having had an abortion but do some of these organizations understand that there are probably just as many who are greatful they were able to have abortions?

That’s not what the statistics show.

I’m not trying to get into a debate about abortion being right or wrong - I’m rather trying to find out if this is one of the methods that are being used to attempt to prevent women from having abortions.

No. It’s real.

Just when I read some of these threads, it seems assumed that ANY woman that has an abortion will either regret t horribly or suffer some type of horrible emotional pain later in life. I don’t think (if this is being used as a method to try to prevent women) that it should be used as when I’ve heard it spoken or written about seems to take the wole of women who have had abortions and generalizes what might happen.

Well, then, put that to rest since it is not a made up thing at all, but rather well researched.

See here for a list of studies (documented with footnotes) and symptoms/illnesses post-abortive women suffer from in much greater numbers than the general population.

 

[mangy_dog]

I’m very aware that this is a Catholic thread, but I do have a question about women and abortion. Why is it that so many on here think that because a woman has an abortion or terminates a pregnancy that she’s going to go through this horrible break down or suffer emotionally later in life for having had one or more? Personally, I happen to know quite a few people who had abortionds and I’m here to tell you the they may wish they hadn’t gotten pregnant, but they don’t regret having had an abortion one bit. Granted in some cases it saved their lives/health. Others it allowed to stay in school or continue with careers. I bring this up because two are not Catholic and I’ve been asked a couple of times “are Catholics trying to convince women if they have an abortion they’ll suffer emotionally later?” I told them, it’s not something I’m trying to do, but I really am beginning to question if this is something that Priests for lilfe and some other organizations are doing. Don’t get me wrong, I realize there are plenty out there that do regret having had an abortion but do some of these organizations understand that there are probably just as many who are greatful they were able to have abortions? I’m not trying to get into a debate about abortion being right or wrong - I’m rather trying to find out if this is one of the methods that are being used to attempt to prevent women from having abortions. Just when I read some of these threads, it seems assumed that ANY woman that has an abortion will either regret t horribly or suffer some type of horrible emotional pain later in life. I don’t think (if this is being used as a method to try to prevent women) that it should be used as when I’ve heard it spoken or written about seems to take the wole of women who have had abortions and generalizes what might happen.

This is not a “catholic ploy” at guilt and remorse.

The suffering will come when the person realizes that abortion is murder. That will happen sooner or later, when the “career” starts winding down or when the soul is starved for grace.

There is something coming in the future (I don’t know when) called the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement.

The Warning specifically, has been described by some as “an illumination of conscience”… You, I and every living soul on earth will experience this event.

I hope and pray that the souls of the living will come to a life of the spirit and a life of prayer before this Warning. I hope and pray…and it’s all that you and I can do.

 

[livi]

Just because you know some women who don’t seem to have experienced the pain associated with abortion yet doesn’t mean that countless women haven’t experienced that pain. Its legitimate, various studies have shown that women who have abortions often experience guilt, remorse, trauma, addictions, etc, in addition to physical side effects. Also, Priests for Life and other legitimate pro-life organizations do not lie, so they most certainly did not dream up some conspiracy to tell women they would experience emotional trauma in order to prevent them from having abortions. And finally, there is no excuse for abortion. Being grateful for the ability to murder a baby because it allowed the woman to get a better job is not right.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

(sigh) When I was 16 a classmate had an abortion. A few weeks after the fact, we were in study hall, and I witnessed her crying, and referring to her baby. She was crying in a way I never heard anyone cry before. She was in actual pain. That image is still with me, more than 20 years later.

Maybe some women feel no remorse…but others do, and the pain they feel is real. I don’t think it’s a ploy at all. It isn’t really fair to suggest it to be.

 

[Corki]

Some people smoke heavily thier whole lives and don’t get lung cancer. In fact, I have personally known at least two, including my own grandfather. Doesn’t that mean that linking smoking and cancer are just “ploys” by the anti-smoking zealots? Doesn’t that mean that smoking might actually be good for you? After all, some people lose weight or calm their nerves with cigarettes. I am beginning to think that it is just the American Cancer Society’s agenda to publish all those studies claiming a link.

Duh!

 

[mangy_dog]

(sigh) When I was 16 a classmate had an abortion. A few weeks after the fact, we were in study hall, and I witnessed her crying, and referring to her baby. She was crying in a way I never heard anyone cry before. She was in actual pain. That image is still with me, more than 20 years later.

Maybe some women feel no remorse…but others do, and the pain they feel is real. I don’t think it’s a ploy at all. It isn’t really fair to suggest it to be.

That’s why we pray.

I’m sorry about your friend.

Your prayers are important even now.

 

[ryecroft]

I do understand that there are many women out there that regret thier abortion - and I’m not trying to say that some of this was made up or anything like that - what I was trying to push forward is that I thought perhaps some organizations like PFL were really trying to use this response that not ALL women have - to try to get other women not to have abortions. I know that there are plenty out there that do feel at the very least a twinge of regret (and yes some that freak out when they hear a hoover because of the vaccuum machine that was used) but I also know quite a few (yes even some who are Catholic) who were glad they had the choice. I am not saying that one woman’s response is more “right” than anothers. It just really kind of irked not only myself but some friends - many of who are Catholic, that some organizations, it kind of seemed were trying to put this forward as “if you have an abortion, this WILL happen to you…” I think I now kind of understand why a magaizine had an article on all the women that didn’t regret the abortion. I get that the catholic church doesn’t believe abortion is right ever - I’m not trying to have a debate or argument about that at all - it just seems that some of the things I hear on EWTN and other Catholic based mediums sometimes put out things like “if you know someone who’s had an abortion - they need to see the aftermath of what they’ve done…” which to myself and some others seems like they’re trying to make someone feel guilty. I really believe there will always be p eople in this world that don’t find anything wrong with abortion - I know there are some places in the former USSR and China where it isn’t odd for a woman to have had 6 abortions or more. Well, anyway, I did find the mention about the enlightening of the concience to come really interesting - I’m going to try to find out more about that. Again, this was not a thread to try to get a debate going - but when I have friends (Catholic and non) who ask me about certain things because I am Catholic (and honestly, most o f my non-catholic friends equate prolife with Catholicism)- I like to have answers. Maybe some groups really are trying to make women feel guilty to try to get them to repent - I can’t see what good it would do otherwise. I guess also what I’m trying to say is that just because you have an abortion (even if you’re catholic) doesn’t mean you’re going to need to go on a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat in order to continue with your life. (although I’m sure it does wonderful things for those that feel they need it)

God Bless, Rye

 

[manualman]

I know of guys who purposely got girls drunk in college with the expectation that it would be easier to get them to have sex when drunk. That’s a form of rape. Strangely, many of these guys seem to have no regrets…

But the fact remains that coerced sex is a violation of human dignity and profoundly damages BOTH the victim AND the victimizer. ALL sin is that way. Sins aren’t sins because they are on an arbitrary list, they are sins because they damage the capacity of the soul to give and receive love.

Abortion is not a time machine. It does not undo the pregnancy. It kills the child to end the pregnancy. That pesky little fact will ALWAYS gnaw at the conscience of a woman who has had one unless or until she completely deadens that portion of her conscience entirely. Reality matters!

 

[kage_ar]

I shudder to think of how cold the heart must be that feels no regret for killing another human being.

Regret and guilt are not the same thing.

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m very aware that this is a Catholic thread, but I do have a question about women and abortion. Why is it that so many on here think that because a woman has an abortion or terminates a pregnancy that she’s going to go through this horrible break down or suffer emotionally later in life for having had one or more? .

possibly because many of of us have been working with post-abortion women for many years and have heard so many of them share their stories, and their relief that they don’t have to fake their feelings in a pro-life caring environment. We do not assume every single woman who has had an abortion feels this way, but we do know the statistics and we do know that women very often are allowed no outlet for grief or other negative reactions.

 

[dashso40]

Those people who have not suffered greatly from having abortion, don’t have Jesus in their hearts, so they don’t care about the baby they killed…I’m not being mean, I speak from personal experience…If you truly have Jesus in you , you will be against abortion and if you had one in the past, you will suffer emotionally b/c you went against everything God is

 

[1ke]

I get that the catholic church doesn’t believe abortion is right ever - I’m not trying to have a debate or argument about that at all - it just seems that some of the things I hear on EWTN and other Catholic based mediums sometimes put out things like “if you know someone who’s had an abortion - they need to see the aftermath of what they’ve done…” which to myself and some others seems like they’re trying to make someone feel guilty.

Well, they’ve committed murder, and excommunicated themselves, so I would say that those on EWTN and other Catholic based medium are certainly right that we need to help the women who have committed abortions see the light, repent, and be reconciled with the Church. That includes contrition for what they have done-- what you might call “guilt.” They are indeed “guilty” of having committed abortion. Their culpability depends upon their individual situation-- freedom to act, full knowledge, etc.

At a minimum, we must help them** recognize the moral evil they have done**and repent of it.

There may also be psychological help that the woman needs. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this. But, it is separate from the moral aspects of what a Catholic is called to do in relation to a fellow Catholic who has had an abortion-- after all, their soul is in jeopardy.

I really believe there will always be p eople in this world that don’t find anything wrong with abortion - I know there are some places in the former USSR and China where it isn’t odd for a woman to have had 6 abortions or more.

The readiness with which certain societies accept abortion actually *increases *the stress women undergo-- because they are made to feel that what they are feeling is wrong… that abortion is just another medical procedure and they shouldn’t be feeling loss. They are made to suppress their feelings of loss, which leads in turn to more depression. The studies bear this out— women feel guilty for feeling guilty because society is telling them their abortion is a valid choice while inside they know it’s not. Cognitive dissonance.

I guess also what I’m trying to say is that just because you have an abortion (even if you’re catholic) doesn’t mean you’re going to need to go on a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat in order to continue with your life. (although I’m sure it does wonderful things for those that feel they need it)

But they do need the Sacrament of Reconciliation, whether they go on a post-abortion healing retreat or not.

 

[surritter]

If you cut your finger with a knife, you will be hurt and bleed. You may not feel the pain because you may be numbed by a physical substance or distracted mentally. But the pain will bubble up eventually if if gets to the point of overcoming the numbness that was there.

So it is with abortion. It’s a fact that harm has been done to the woman. If she is entrenched in the lies of the pro-abortion movement, then she may be “numb” to the reality of her pain.

While not all post-abortive women feel emotional pain or regret, the ones that do are simply those whose numbness finally succumbed to the pain that was there all along.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

So, since not everyone who smokes gets cancer or emphysemia or COPD, we shouldn’t tell people that if start or continue to smoke they may very well get one or all of these diseases? Just because it’s not 100%? We should just let them smoke?

Every other medical procedure performed requires “informed consent”. It’s been shown statistically that abortion is likely (not 100%, but what in this world is?) to cause emotional harm. What’s wrong w/ informing a woman of that? I don’t see the beef, here

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[ryecroft]

So, since not everyone who smokes gets cancer or emphysemia or COPD, we shouldn’t tell people that if start or continue to smoke they may very well get one or all of these diseases? Just because it’s not 100%? We should just let them smoke?

Every other medical procedure performed requires “informed consent”. It’s been shown statistically that abortion is likely (not 100%, but what in this world is?) to cause emotional harm. What’s wrong w/ informing a woman of that? I don’t see the beef, here

In Christ,

Ellen

The sarcasm was not really needed (referring to the smoking comment) but whatever - anyway -I would love to see where you got your information that abortion causes emotional harm 100% (or is likely to cause it) of the time- I’ve never seen it and I know for a fact at least 3 that have had no problems with it and there is actually a group of people, I have a friend who is a member who have gotten together - the’ve give their group a name something like - I don’t regret my abortion(I won’t give out the full name as I’ve been asked not to give out any more information regarding it as they don’t want any hecklers or others that just want to debate them)

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The sarcasm was not really needed but whatever - anyway -I would love to see where you got your information that abortion causes emotional harm 100% of the time- I’ve never seen it and I know for a fact at least 3 that have had no problems with it.

She actually didn’t…reread.

It’s been shown statistically that abortion is likely (not 100%, but what in this world is?) to cause emotional harm. What’s wrong w/ informing a woman of that? I don’t see the beef, here

 

[Bluegoat]

I do think that sometimes some people exaggerate and say ALL, when statistically the indication is MANY.

This may be because there seems to be a tendency to tell women, or for them to assume, that they will not have such difficulties - that once it is done they will be finished with it. (That isn’t always the case either, some counselors do tell people this.) But the pro-life advocates then want to be very sure to tell women that no, often that is NOT the case.

Also, pro-life advocates think abortion is really killing a person. Now, most people are not wanting to really kill a person. The majority of women who have abortions don’t think they are killing a person, either because they are really intellectually convinced of it, or because they have convinced themselves. The latter is especially likely if they are under a lot of stress about the pregnancy.

But if they are really wrong about this, the chances are fairly good that at some point they may realize it - maybe much later on in life. At that point there will inevitably be a lot of pain, as anyone would feel if they realized they had deliberately killed a person.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

Ryecroft,

May I respectfully, but firmly reply to some of the concerns raised?

First, it may well be that some of these women are glad to have had their abortions. There are many people who have committed murder who are glad that they did it. That, perhaps is the most profound suffering of all, the deadening of a conscience. It is a greater harm than the depression and remorse felt by others. So I would say that all women who have abortions suffer greatly. The worst cases are those who are impervious to the damage done to their psyches, and their souls.

Let’s visit the issue of a woman who got her education thanks to an abortion. I, as a college professor and microbiologist, have taught women in nursing schools who were pregnant, had infants, small children, teens and grown children. The necessity of abortion to further one’s education is a lie, a comforting one for those who did so. Comforting as it is, it is a lie. It was not necessary.

Yes, I would argue that all women suffer from having had abortions. The worst affected don’t feel it.

 

[dashso40]

Ryecroft,

May I respectfully, but firmly reply to some of the concerns raised?

First, it may well be that some of these women are glad to have had their abortions. There are many people who have committed murder who are glad that they did it. That, perhaps is the most profound suffering of all, the deadening of a conscience. It is a greater harm than the depression and remorse felt by others. So I would say that all women who have abortions suffer greatly. The worst cases are those who are impervious to the damage done to their psyches, and their souls.

Let’s visit the issue of a woman who got her education thanks to an abortion. I, as a college professor and microbiologist, have taught women in nursing schools who were pregnant, had infants, small children, teens and grown children. The necessity of abortion to further one’s education is a lie, a comforting one for those who did so. Comforting as it is, it is a lie. It was not necessary.

Yes, I would argue that all women suffer from having had abortions. The worst affected don’t feel it.

AMEN…You took the words right out of my mouth…