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noclevername said:
I have a question. OK, this is going to sound like I am challenging the Catholic laws but I’m not, I am genuinely curious.

OK, if it is a sin to masterbate or to use a condom, I am assuming the reason is because the seed has to land in the woman. Why does it have to end up there? Is it because the woman has to have a chance to conceive? If that is so,then why is it OK for a woman in menopause to have sex? We know she can’t conceive. And why is it OK to have sex during “safe” persiods using NFP? She can’t conceive then either. I am just really confused about this whole BC issue.
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There are a few “rules” for marital relations: 1. obviously between a husband and wife 2. the act should be both unitive and procreative. Procreative in this sense means the act must be completed as God intended—no interference by chemicals or physical barriers. While a man is fertile all the time, a woman has natural cycles of fertility and infertility and once menopause happens–no fertility. The Church doesn’t tell a couple WHEN to have sex, only that each and every act must be ordered toward procreation (completed as God intended, no barriers). That’s why it’s licit for a couple to have sex during naturally infertile times (after ovulation, during pregnancy, after menopause and if a couple is naturally infertile) or during potentially fertile times.
 
I’m so not gettin involved on this thread, I’m gonna let you ladies handle this.
 
iluvmybabies said:
Dear boyfriend…lol… Ugh it’s like this with my parents all the time, my mother mostly!! It’s like I can’t get a break not one!! AND THEN SHE TOLD ME TO JUST HAVE MY UTERUS REMOVED BEFORE I GOT WORST!! She doesn’t want me to have more children, she says with the ones I have are more than enough and I have to deal with it! If and when I get married my husband will just have to deal with my 3 children all ready and be happy and that’s it! I was like why is it such a big deal if I want to have children with my husband? For her she goes, because you will ruin your kids’ lives, hello he will mistreat them once his kid is born!

I don’t spend any time with them, I live 1800 miles away and I miss my family they love my children but the whole putting me down thing is a constant thing if it’s not my mom it’s my sister if not my sister it’s my brothers…I am the embarassment to the fam…I was told countless times! 😦

But even though, I am super frustrated because I don’t want to lose my uterus at least not now and wish to have more children some day, but it’s like hello? You know? My db-dfiance wants to have a big wedding, I want a small one, I mean if it’s just he and I and my children that’s fine…So we are discussing about the money and what we want and need, etc…We have a budget and we are sticking to it… We have postponed the wedding because of family issues, but we have worked those out thanks some great advise, but now with this new health issue of mine, it’s like, I am lost!! I don’t know what to think or how to feel about it, and with my mother advising me, doesn’t help me see like the bigger picture…And she doesn’t listen to reason! She keeps telling me how my father keeps studying the Bible and how he tells her “you realize our children might be punished dearly for disobeying us and for mistreating us, you do realize GOD states that children whom disobey their parents are doomed!!” And she keeps telling me this and she keeps telling me remember don’t lie you will not be forgiven, etc…And it’s like ok so I guess I better tell the kids there is no Santa nor Easter Bunny nor toothfairy!! 😦 It’s really frustrating…

And now to know that it is ok to have sex with your spouse during pg, oh man do I feel PHTUPID!!! :o
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iluvemybabies, you are a such a sweet soul. I get a little sad sometimes, when I read your posts about how you have to defend yourself to your mom.:bighanky: I hope that everything works out for you–you deserve to be happy. Don’t let your mom or anyone ruin your special day with your husband to be. I’ll pray for your mom, that she accepts you for you–and calms down a bit. lol

God bless…just stay close to Christ. He will always get you through anything. Hugs
 
kage_ar said:
Also, please take a course in NFP. If you are trying to avoid, you should NOT have sex during your menstrual cycle - it can hide mucous changes. These are not considered “safe” days.
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Yes I will take one when the time comes…I had a long time talking with my df/db yesterday regarding NFP, ugh, it was long and hesitating and Bible passages were involved and oh man…I was exhausted by the time we finished discussing the reasons WHY and WHAT and HOW and BECAUSE!!! Fighting against his parents about what they stuck in his head was like exorcism!! I even spoke with my mother when she told me and reminded me again about my precan cells punishment for not using protection!!! I was like HELLO the Bible states … And she was like yeah but… I was like yeah and…and then she was like but…and I was like you as a claimed devoted Catholic would know all about this and it’s important that such information you have passed on to me is extremely helpful for me…during such difficult times! So she stopped talking and agreed!! I WAS LIKE WHAT MY MOTHER AGREEING!! OH HAPPY DAY!! REALLY!! :eek:

So anyhow, he still agrees with NFP so hopefully when we get married or right before we will go see an NFP counselor and go from there!! 😃
 
noclevername said:
I have a question. OK, this is going to sound like I am challenging the Catholic laws but I’m not, I am genuinely curious.

OK, if it is a sin to masterbate or to use a condom, I am assuming the reason is because the seed has to land in the woman. Why does it have to end up there? Is it because the woman has to have a chance to conceive? If that is so,then why is it OK for a woman in menopause to have sex? We know she can’t conceive. And why is it OK to have sex during “safe” persiods using NFP? She can’t conceive then either. I am just really confused about this whole BC issue.
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Yeah my questions exactly…a while ago…but I was told that the whole point is that you are still OPEN to conception even if making love doesn’t lead to a pg you are still open to the opportunity and chance of having a baby and life!! 😃 Artificial contraception denies it all together…
 
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OutinChgoburbs:
I seriously don’t know what to say!! I mean yeah that’s been my life pretty much!! And yes I will definitely ask someone in our church hopefully they will know…and have information about it!! Thanks…Creighton eh…
 
Just_Lurking said:
The Summa Theologica (see here) says that it is a sin.
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iluvmybabies said:
OMG that’s what my parents stated to me about the whole uncleanliness thing…SEE NOW I AM EXTREMELY CONFUSED!!! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
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The writings of the Saints are not doctrine. Sometimes doctrine references the writings of the Saints for justification, but that doesn’t make everything that is written by Saints doctrine.

HTH. 🙂
 
St. Thomas Aquinas also promoted tithing, that is, one-tenth of one’s income. Yet, the Church teaches we are not under the Old Law (Old Testament law) but that we are under the Blood of Christ’s sacrifice.

My husband teaches Aquinas at major universities, including a Catholic one. I am here to tell you, this is NOT looked upon as doctrinal.

To recap, it is perfectly acceptable for a Catholic to:
  • Give to the support of the Church as he or she can best afford;
  • Have marital relations during the wife’s menses;
  • eat ham;
  • grow one’s nails every month instead of having them clipped at the mikvah;
  • not go to the mikvah;
  • eat cheese on one’s hamburgers.
 
Em_in_FL said:
The writings of the Saints are not doctrine. Sometimes doctrine references the writings of the Saints for justification, but that doesn’t make everything that is written by Saints doctrine.

HTH. 🙂
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Aha so that means…
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
St. Thomas Aquinas also promoted tithing, that is, one-tenth of one’s income. Yet, the Church teaches we are not under the Old Law (Old Testament law) but that we are under the Blood of Christ’s sacrifice.

My husband teaches Aquinas at major universities, including a Catholic one. I am here to tell you, this is NOT looked upon as doctrinal.

To recap, it is perfectly acceptable for a Catholic to:
  • Give to the support of the Church as he or she can best afford;
  • Have marital relations during the wife’s menses;
  • eat ham;
  • grow one’s nails every month instead of having them clipped at the mikvah;
  • not go to the mikvah;
  • eat cheese on one’s hamburgers.
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Are you sure…I mean if the Old Testament is still valid and read etc then shouldn’t the teachings based on that still be used???
 
iluvmybabies said:
OMG that’s what my parents stated to me about the whole uncleanliness thing…SEE NOW I AM EXTREMELY CONFUSED!!! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
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I read the link…briefly…it doesn’t seem to be entirely forbidden. There seems to be a distinction between “natural” and “unnatural” and it being allowed during a natural cycle, but not an unnatural cycle. I think it means if the wife is having some type of irregular bleeding…she might be ill…and the husband should respect that and not initiate.

But the link seems to have to do with spouses denying each other…not menstruation per se. But I am not a Thomist expert in any way.

May I give you some advice…get Christopher West books…also a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That will surely help clarify a lot of things for you.
 
Em_in_FL said:
The writings of the Saints are not doctrine. Sometimes doctrine references the writings of the Saints for justification, but that doesn’t make everything that is written by Saints doctrine.

HTH. 🙂
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iluvmybabies said:
Aha so that means…
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It means that doctrine (meaning “teachings of the faith”) isn’t based on all the writings of all the saints, or even Popes for that matter. These writings need to be studied and filtered and defined and then prayed upon - and that’s been done for us by the Church!

My advice - check out some of the “Faith Tracks” here on Catholic Answers…
catholic.com/library/faith_tracts.asp

Also, read your Catechism - link here…

HTH! 🙂
 
Thank you for the information I will be checking the Cathecism and definitely the authors posted…I know I have a lot to learn but hopefully I will be ok!! lol…
 
I am going nuts!! :eek: :hypno: :doh2: :crossrc:

GOD help me!! Ok so it is ok…not a bad thing…k…thanks for the information and everyone’s help and advice!! It’s greatly appreciated…
 
iluvmybabies said:
Are you sure…I mean if the Old Testament is still valid and read etc then shouldn’t the teachings based on that still be used???
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Amazingly enough, the Church cleared this up at her first Council - the Council of Jerusalem. It was over the fact that some thought gentiles should follow the Jewish laws.

You can read the entire account of this Council in Acts 15.

Here is what of the old law that we now have to follow, right from Acts 15:

"21
It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. "
 
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