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henrikhank
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Why do the Catholic Church have lots of religious orders while Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Chuches don’t have many at all?
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Wesley7
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In the Catholic Church, the flavor of Catholicism may vary from individual to individual. While in Orthodoxy all Orthodox follow the same spirituality whether you are a Metropolitan or a Hermit. <><
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henrikhank
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Paul_theApostle
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From-http://en.allexperts.com/q/Eastern-Orthodox-1456/Monastic-Orders.htm
“The Orthodox Church does not have formal orders like the Catholic Church, but it does have some variation in monastic tradition. Overall, Orthodox monasticism can be divided into three groups: cenobitic, idiorythmic and eremitic. Cenobitic monasticism is based on large communities with an abbot or abbess leading the entire group. Idiorythmic monasteries are built around smaller communities who live in separated groups but come together for common worship. Eremitic monastics live alone in rocks, caves, islands or in the desert, and are called hermits. Different cultures also have their own traditions. Russian discipline varies in small customs from Romanian monasticism which has different practices than the monastics of Mt. Athos in Greece. There can be a fairly wide difference in practice and discipline. An ancient monastic saying is that monastics should not bring their own discipline/practice (typicon) along when visiting another monastery.”
“The Orthodox Church does not have formal orders like the Catholic Church, but it does have some variation in monastic tradition. Overall, Orthodox monasticism can be divided into three groups: cenobitic, idiorythmic and eremitic. Cenobitic monasticism is based on large communities with an abbot or abbess leading the entire group. Idiorythmic monasteries are built around smaller communities who live in separated groups but come together for common worship. Eremitic monastics live alone in rocks, caves, islands or in the desert, and are called hermits. Different cultures also have their own traditions. Russian discipline varies in small customs from Romanian monasticism which has different practices than the monastics of Mt. Athos in Greece. There can be a fairly wide difference in practice and discipline. An ancient monastic saying is that monastics should not bring their own discipline/practice (typicon) along when visiting another monastery.”
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Wesley7
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What is the language of your country? . .
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runningdude
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He’s from Sweden
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runningdude
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Mostly because Catholics have many more members overall. There are over a billion (1,000,000.00) members of the Catholic Church.
Each individual Orthodox church has only a few million members each, and all together have only about 200 million (200,000.00) all together within both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox.
Because the Catholic church is so large, it has a great deal of diversity. This is why it has so many religious orders, because there are more priests and brothers needed to serve the entire Catholic population.
However, each individual Orthodox church has at least one religious order, as Orthodox bishops are usually former members of a religious order. But there are fewer priests and brothers, so there are fewer options.
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ConstantineTG
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There are some religious orders in the East, although some say that would be a Latinization. We have sisters in our Eparchy: vocations.ca/Directory/sisters_servants.php
Then we also have the Basilian Order of Saint Josaphat which is an order of priests.
But from the same order of priests there were those who went into schism because they defended Latinizations in the Ukrainian Church, favored uniatism which Blessed Pope John Paul II and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch at that time (forgot who) as well as several other Orthodox Patriarchs and Bishops have agreed to stop and even condemned in 1993, and also they opposed the Ukrainian Catholic Church from working closely together with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and lay a path towards reunion.
Then we also have the Basilian Order of Saint Josaphat which is an order of priests.
But from the same order of priests there were those who went into schism because they defended Latinizations in the Ukrainian Church, favored uniatism which Blessed Pope John Paul II and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch at that time (forgot who) as well as several other Orthodox Patriarchs and Bishops have agreed to stop and even condemned in 1993, and also they opposed the Ukrainian Catholic Church from working closely together with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and lay a path towards reunion.
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qOcOp
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I guess I’m kind of confused by this question. Are you wondering why the Latin Rite has more orders than the Eastern Rite (EC, OC)?
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ConstantineTG
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This is not correct at all. Numbers have nothing to do with it. Orders are just not the way Eastern Spirituality is mostly lived. Monasticism doesn’t call for establishing orders to be lived. And all Eastern (Byzantine Christians) are called to it one way or another.
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qOcOp
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I agree. The spirituality is different between the two because the theology is different. The Western theology allows for a wider range of spiritualties while the Eastern doesn’t. Not because the East is lacking anything but rather because they don’t view the method of approaching Gods Divine Mysteries in the same way.
For example if we wanted to get the value of 4 there are many ways of doing this.
The Eastern Spirituality would look something like this:
2+2 = 4
The Western Spirituality looks something like this:
1+1+1+1=4
3+1=4
5-1=4
2+3-1=4
And so on.
Some people (Western Rite) like the idea of looking at every possible way to get to 4 while others (Eastern Rite) like to appreciate one way.
I hope anything I have said has not offended my Eastern Brothers since this was not my intention.
We Westerners like to tinker lol.
God Bless.
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Wesley7
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I was thinking the same thing. Thus, trying my best to answer that kind of question.
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runningdude
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Then where do monastics live if not with an order?
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Wesley7
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In my case, if you are never recruited - you stay at home and live the ordinary life.Then where do monastics live if not with an order?
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Little_Boy_Lost
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I sort of disagree. I feel the coptic church has it’s own spirituaity distinct from the Armenians, who are distinct from the byzantines, who are distinct from the Russian and Ukrainian slavs, who are distinct from the Malabar Christians. You have just as much plurality of spirituality, perhaps even more so than the west. But monastic orders, were I think a response to certain needs in the west. Mendicant orders just built upon what had already been laid down, and really exploded the plethora of orders. In some sense it’s a latinzation, but how “Latin” can a basilian order really be.
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runningdude
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I don’t follow
. It was my impression that that bishops were selected from members of religious orders, as these are among the few unmarried clergy.Are they not called religious “orders” in the East? How are the religious/monastics organized?
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Aramis
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Individual monasteries under the authority of the local bishop is the normative mode in the east.
Several ECC’s have various congregations of religious who are not traditional monastics.
Several ECC’s have various congregations of religious who are not traditional monastics.
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mardukm
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I don’t know why “religious orders” are considered Latinizations. There is a religious order of nuns particularly focused on the charism of social ministry in the Coptic Orthodox Church of “Patriarchal privilege” (in Catholic jargon), established only in the 1960’s (IIRC). You’d have an impossible time convincing any Copt that this was a “Latinization.”
If a group of religious (i.e., not laity) in any Church wants to form a group to meet a particular need of the local Church, why should they not be able to do so? That it is a “Latinization” seems like an awfully legalistic rationale to prevent the establishment of such groups.
Blessings,
Marduk
If a group of religious (i.e., not laity) in any Church wants to form a group to meet a particular need of the local Church, why should they not be able to do so? That it is a “Latinization” seems like an awfully legalistic rationale to prevent the establishment of such groups.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Aramis
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In the Byzantine East, religious are, by tradition, all diocesan except for a few western style orders which arose specifically as latinizations.
Since the Byzantines outnumber the rest of the EC’s 2:1 in number of churches sui iuris and by 3:1 or more in numbers of faithful… there does tend to a a rather lagish assumption of ECC = Byzantine
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mardukm
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Dear brother Aramis,
Thank you for the response.
So would it be correct to say that the concept of “religious” order" is not really foreign to the Easterns – the real difference is the existence of religious orders of “papal privilege” (i.e., under the omophor of the bishop of Rome), as distinct from a religious order of “episcopal privilege” (i.e., under the omophor of the local bishop). In other words, the existence of the former in an Eastern Church would be a “Latinization,” but the latter would not?
Blessings,
Marduk
Thank you for the response.
So would it be correct to say that the concept of “religious” order" is not really foreign to the Easterns – the real difference is the existence of religious orders of “papal privilege” (i.e., under the omophor of the bishop of Rome), as distinct from a religious order of “episcopal privilege” (i.e., under the omophor of the local bishop). In other words, the existence of the former in an Eastern Church would be a “Latinization,” but the latter would not?
Blessings,
Marduk
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