Question

[Angela77]

There has been a question eating away at me for a few weeks. Some background: I went to a retreat which did a lot for my faith. I left it feeling so good, so happy, everything was perfect. But unfortunately, that extremely ecstatic feeling faded as it always does after a retreat. I’m still faithful of course, but just not was as much conviction. So, I learned to trust in God completely and it felt so good. Nothing made me nervous or scared or anything. But then a friend questioned the logic behind this. I know by the feeling I had that it’s true as true can be, and I know there must be a good way to explain it. This is my specific question:

The reason we trust in God is that He has a plan for us and is in control of everything. However, he also gave us free will. So what if I or anyone makes a decision/action that goes counter to His plan? He must have to adjust for that. Does He have some foresight into what we’re about to do? But we don’t believe in predetermination…

So as you can see, I’m in a bit of a quandary. Any answers would be much appreciated. In my experience, Catholicism always has an answer, I just don’t always know it.

 

[empther]

The simple answer:

Predetermination would make decisions for us. We wouldn’t have free will.

But we do have free will. Therefore, God doesn’t determine what we do.

---

The complicated answer.

To be persons we must have free will. Animals are not persons.

God would have no reason to create us if we were only animals. But we’re people. We choose. Therefore, we can go to Heaven and enjoy it.

---

The atheist answers.

Look out. There will be all kinds of garbage from the A-team. There already is all over this forum.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

There has been a question eating away at me for a few weeks. Some background: I went to a retreat which did a lot for my faith. I left it feeling so good, so happy, everything was perfect. But unfortunately, that extremely ecstatic feeling faded as it always does after a retreat. I’m still faithful of course, but just not was as much conviction. So, I learned to trust in God completely and it felt so good. Nothing made me nervous or scared or anything. But then a friend questioned the logic behind this. I know by the feeling I had that it’s true as true can be, and I know there must be a good way to explain it. This is my specific question:

The reason we trust in God is that He has a plan for us and is in control of everything. However, he also gave us free will. So what if I or anyone makes a decision/action that goes counter to His plan? He must have to adjust for that. Does He have some foresight into what we’re about to do? But we don’t believe in predetermination…

So as you can see, I’m in a bit of a quandary. Any answers would be much appreciated. In my experience, Catholicism always has an answer, I just don’t always know it.

God permits and ordains things for our sanctification. God’s knowledge of the method and means of our sanctification has not removed our ability to have free will since we can either particiapte or reject His plan of salvation for us. Take the scene at Calvary where there were two theifs on the cross next to Christ. Both men where there either because God ordained or permitted (willed) them to be their based on their past choices, and both of them still had free will to either accept the death on the cross as a better than they deserve punishment for their sins (Dismas) or they could reject the death as injust and complain about how they do not deserve to suffer it (Gestas). One used his free will to be sanctified and the other…well.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

I don’t wish to make light of your query, but there is an old joke that answers your question exactly:
There was a man who had an obsession about winning the lottery. Every time he passed a church he would say a silent prayer: Dear Lord, please let me win the lottery". Several times a day he would pray:“Oh Lord, please let me win the lottery!”.
Finally, one day as he passes a Catholic church, he sees that the main door is open, and on the Altar is a Monstrance with the Holy Eucharist. He enters the church and goes up to the Altar, falls to his knees and says aloud: “Dear Lord, please let me win the lottery”!
A big booming voice comes out of heaven and says: “Girst do me a favor, buy a ticket”!

 

[fhansen]

There has been a question eating away at me for a few weeks. Some background: I went to a retreat which did a lot for my faith. I left it feeling so good, so happy, everything was perfect. But unfortunately, that extremely ecstatic feeling faded as it always does after a retreat. I’m still faithful of course, but just not was as much conviction. So, I learned to trust in God completely and it felt so good. Nothing made me nervous or scared or anything. But then a friend questioned the logic behind this. I know by the feeling I had that it’s true as true can be, and I know there must be a good way to explain it. This is my specific question:

The reason we trust in God is that He has a plan for us and is in control of everything. However, he also gave us free will. So what if I or anyone makes a decision/action that goes counter to His plan? He must have to adjust for that. Does He have some foresight into what we’re about to do? But we don’t believe in predetermination…

So as you can see, I’m in a bit of a quandary. Any answers would be much appreciated. In my experience, Catholicism always has an answer, I just don’t always know it.

Adam & Eve made a decision counter to His plan. Of course He knew they would but that didn’t mean He would interfere with their choice. And that’s the point. He won’t interfere or force His will to be done but He will provide grace, which seeks to draw us into doing the right thing-into making the right choices. But ultimately He’ll allow us to choose even hell if, in the end, we adamantly refuse to choose Him.

**15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.** Deut 30:15-20

 

[Bravo_6]

The reason why there is a feeling of great peace and joy experienced at retreats is because of it’s secluded locations(for most).For a week or so,all the pangs of everyday life;distractions, technology,traffic,daily duties, etc,are set aside,i.e.,everything that is on a sensual level is put on hold(no talking at traditional St Ignatius retreats).Now you can spend real quality time,just you and God.You become more spiritual with minimal distraction and can elevate your mind far and beyond then you ever had.THEN,you return to everyday life and slowly,but surely,the feeling subsides.Drowned out by modern-day and all it’s attributes.

 

[Angela77]

The reason why there is a feeling of great peace and joy experienced at retreats is because of it’s secluded locations(for most).For a week or so,all the pangs of everyday life;distractions, technology,traffic,daily duties, etc,are set aside,i.e.,everything that is on a sensual level is put on hold(no talking at traditional St Ignatius retreats).Now you can spend real quality time,just you and God.You become more spiritual with minimal distraction and can elevate your mind far and beyond then you ever had.THEN,you return to everyday life and slowly,but surely,the feeling subsides.Drowned out by modern-day and all it’s attributes.

Precisely! It’s so painful watching it fade. Now that it’s faded, I’m probably still better off than I was before the retreat. But, compared to the high at the retreat, it’s nothing now.

 

[joyous_revert]

I struggled with this question too. The thing to remember is WHO you are dealing with. God is outside of time, so he already knows all the decisions we will make in our lifetimes and already knows the outcome of our decisions. We’re the ones who don’t know. So yes, you have free will but God already knows where it will take you. The old “time paradox” trick.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There has been a question eating away at me for a few weeks. Some background: I went to a retreat which did a lot for my faith. I left it feeling so good, so happy, everything was perfect. But unfortunately, that extremely ecstatic feeling faded as it always does after a retreat. I’m still faithful of course, but just not was as much conviction. So, I learned to trust in God completely and it felt so good. Nothing made me nervous or scared or anything. But then a friend questioned the logic behind this. I know by the feeling I had that it’s true as true can be, and I know there must be a good way to explain it. This is my specific question:

The reason we trust in God is that He has a plan for us and is in control of everything. However, he also gave us free will. So what if I or anyone makes a decision/action that goes counter to His plan? He must have to adjust for that. Does He have some foresight into what we’re about to do? But we don’t believe in predetermination…

So as you can see, I’m in a bit of a quandary. Any answers would be much appreciated. In my experience, Catholicism always has an answer, I just don’t always know it.

If we make a decision we know for certain is contrary to the plan he has for us, we certainly cannot expect his blessings. Talk it over with your pastor would be my advise. Talking it over with " friends " is just asking for trouble.