Questionable Communion procedures in Biloxi Diocese

[TheLittleLady]

Amen. RashJudgementSiteNews, take a moment to think about what Scripture says:

What is true
What is just
What is honest
What is lovely
What is pure
What is of good report, lovely

Think on these things

 

[CTBcin]

If true, it’s definitely a no-no.

Illicit at the very least, and probably invalid.

 

[adamhovey1988]

LifeSiteNews. So be it.

Okay, give me an article OUTSIDE of Lifesite news.

 

[CathBoy1]

The priests are making decisions for their own parish. They are unlikely to care what some Catholic who’s likely in another diocese, state, or country thinks about the matter.
They do care what their own bishop thinks, and the bishops like I said are capable of dealing with this like they have for decades when we didn’t have the Internet and LifeSiteNews so somebody in Maine or France could get all wound up about what a priest did in Biloxi.

I personally am not getting wound up by LifeSiteNews’s article, nobody on this forum really seems to be either…

… anyways I’m just saying that the internet can be a useful tool to help put an end to such ”innovations” and even any abuses that may be happening in different parts of the world.

I would respectfully have to part company with you on this one point. The internet, and the plethora of faithful Catholic and Catholic-oriented websites and apostolates, have made it far more difficult for those priests, bishops, teachers, and others who are supposed to be guardians of sound doctrine and liturgy, to “get away with shenanigans”. Do something bizarre or out-of-bounds, and it will go viral. It’s just too bad we didn’t have something like this in the 1960s and 1970s.

I agree and that is exactly the point I was trying to make

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Yes, I know, LifeSiteNews. Many people don’t like LifeSiteNews. So be it.

Just read the article.

Thoughts?

Catholics that follow LifeSiteNews should identify themselves so I can ignore them on all theological matters. Look at that crew. One of them left his wife and kids for another man before coming back. I wouldn’t trust these guys to interpret “Spot can run”, must less Catholic teaching.

I wouldn’t say I “follow” LSN, but I read what they say, the way I read anything else — for its truth value. If the North Korean News Agency reported that water is wet, yep, I’d go along with that. I read all across the spectrum, from the Washington Post, the New York Times, NCReporter, socialist websites, libertarian websites, conservative websites, and websites that are so far-right, I might get banned for even naming them. Truth is truth wherever you find it. That is how I came to be a Catholic in the first place.

If you choose to “ignore [me] on all theological matters”, that’s your call. I’m nobody, I’m just a struggling middle-aged Catholic single father who’s read a lot, seen a lot, paid a lot of attention to what the Church does and teaches for the past five decades, and cared about what I saw, heard, and read. Take that for what it’s worth.

Pax te.

 

[stpurl]

Well there is a guideline from the actual diocese dated July 15 (which is prior to this whole baggie situation) which delineates what ‘should be done’. IOW, the bishop doesn’t go out and shame the priest by name but makes it quite clear that the practice of having one’s bagged host and ‘own pyx’ are not allowable, since it actually references EHMCs and all.

Also Father Z talks about it but he references back to Life Site. And I think he also mentions the response on the diocese website.

 

[Weserthy]

I believe I read somewhere that the bishop stopped this specific incident from happening, so hopefully it has been put to rest.

As for what was proposed here by the priest, there are so many problems with it that it’s tough to even know where to start. There is no doubt this whole proposed scheme is illicit, and I think the validity would be in question as well if attempted.

 

[stpurl]

And I am willing to bet that the priest who did this is very popular with many of his congregation precisely because he ‘thinks outside the box’ and isn’t dull, boring, ‘rigid’, driven by ‘rules’, and is relentlessly cheerful, collegial, always coming up with things for people to ‘do’, is a ‘call me Nickname’ fellow, etc.

And I’m not being ‘mean’. In very many areas of life, people like this are wonderful people. Some of the best knitters I know come up with great tips and tricks because they are willing to experiment.

At the same time, some of the worst knitters I know spend so much time trying to reinvent knitting that their projects are always a mess. They want to make a new way not because the old way doesn’t work, but just for the sake of being ‘new’, regardless of whether the new actually ‘works’ for the project. Instead of say sticking to a ribbing on a hat and tweaking it by making it 1 x 1 or 2 x 2, or making it in a different color from the rest of the hat, or doing a twisted ribbing, they decide they want to work a lace pattern instead. And they wind up with a hat that just doesn’t WORK, because the lace stretches out instead of ‘holds in’ around the head, it doesn’t protect from the weather, and it looks more like the person just doesn’t knit very well at all!

If the priest had used his creative urges to, for example, do a ‘regular Mass’ and asked his parishioners to share with him some of the ways they are trying to make a ‘streamed’ Mass more meaningful, or some of the practices that THEY are doing, it could have been much better. First, it isn’t poor Father who has to do all the ‘thinking outside the box’. And if people ‘go off’, he can know they are going off and help them ‘get back on track’. I just hope that with the bishop making things more clear that this priest (God bless him for his service) can get a clearer view of ‘experimenting’ and maybe have a better appreciation for ‘living the rules’ as well.

 

[CathBoy1]

Exactly!
As the old adage goes, don’t fix what ain’t broke.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I wouldn’t say I “follow” LSN, but I read what they say, the way I read anything else — for its truth value. If the North Korean News Agency reported that water is wet, yep, I’d go along with that. I read all across the spectrum, from the Washington Post , the New York Times , NCReporter, socialist websites, libertarian websites, conservative websites, and websites that are so far-right, I might get banned for even naming them. Truth is truth wherever you find it. That is how I came to be a Catholic in the first place.

If you choose to “ignore [me] on all theological matters”, that’s your call. I’m nobody, I’m just a struggling middle-aged Catholic single father who’s read a lot, seen a lot, paid a lot of attention to what the Church does and teaches for the past five decades, and cared about what I saw, heard, and read. Take that for what it’s worth.

Pax te.

I didn’t say you followed LSN. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t take anyone that follows LSN seriously as someone who has well thought-out views on Catholic teaching or, for that matter, anything.

No offense taken. It takes quite a bit, and even if someone did tell me they would ignore what I have to say on theological matters, I would just say “oh, well”.

I am actually on the Mississippi priest’s side — not that I would condone a method of distributing the Eucharist that is way out there on the edges of sound liturgical practice, but I have tried to think of ways to keep down the risk of infection. I have wondered if, given the circumstances, an exception could be made to the “no self-communicating” rule and place the Eucharist on large gold-plated or silver-plated trays, similar to (forgive me) cookies at a reception. Ancient and medieval hermits self-communicated, so it’s not intrinsically wrong. Just trying to brainstorm and think of answers, and evidently, so was the priest in this case.

The letter from the bishop is clear, and brings matters to a close. I did not think in terms of “wait, before I pass along this story, I’d better check the diocesan website, and see if it’s been addressed”.
It’s a finished matter and I think we can all just put it behind us.

 

[Mrchatsworth]

While we can hope the practice is stopped the bishop’s responsibility does not end there. Instilling a basic education on the Eucharist is necessary, sadly this may include priests.

 

[CathBoy1]

I have tried to think of ways to keep down the risk of infection.

I have as well, within Latin Catholicism I have had a hard time coming up with any ideas that are reverent/respectful to the Holy Eucharist.
As of late I have been attending a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church and Father has been using individual wooden spoons for communion, which he then properly disposes of (burns) after liturgy.

This is a great idea, but unfortunately does not work for reception of Holy Eucharist in our Latin Church.

I have wondered if, given the circumstances , an exception could be made to the “no self-communicating” rule and place the Eucharist on large gold-plated or silver-plated trays, similar to (forgive me) cookies at a reception.

I could see this solution presenting a whole other list of problems, chiefly being what if somebody accidentally knocked over the “tray”, I honestly cannot think of a good solution within the Latin Church.

I honestly wished that individual small wooden tongs were (cheaply and easily) available as are the wooden spoons that I was speaking of. That could perhaps be a wonderful solution for those either wishing to receive on the tongue or in the hand.

could wooden clothespins work?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I have tried to think of ways to keep down the risk of infection.

I have as well, within Latin Catholicism I have had a hard time coming up with any ideas that are reverent/respectful to the Holy Eucharist.
As of late I have been attending a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church and Father has been using individual wooden spoons for communion, which he then properly disposes of (burns) after liturgy.

This is a great idea, but unfortunately does not work for reception of Holy Eucharist in our Latin Church.

I have wondered if, given the circumstances , an exception could be made to the “no self-communicating” rule and place the Eucharist on large gold-plated or silver-plated trays, similar to (forgive me) cookies at a reception.

I could see this solution presenting a whole other list of problems, chiefly being what if somebody accidentally knocked over the “tray”, I honestly cannot think of a good solution within the Latin Church.

I honestly wished that individual small wooden tongs were (cheaply and easily) available as are the wooden spoons that I was speaking of. That could perhaps be a wonderful solution for those either wishing to receive on the tongue or in the hand.

could wooden clothespins work?

Never in a million years would I have thought of wooden spoons for the Byzantine Eucharist, nor wooden tongs for the Latin Eucharist. That’s actually a pretty good idea. Burning them after Divine Liturgy/Mass simply returns whatever traces of the Body and Blood might exist, to the elements from whence they came. I actually wondered whether, if the “matchboxes” used in Switzerland had been deemed licit, they could have been deposited in a receptacle after Mass, and then burned. Either way, it’s ultimately wood.

This could actually be an excellent teaching moment for those who do not share our faith in the Real Presence — “why do you Catholics burn your implements after Mass? — why don’t you just throw them away?”.

Here is another idea I saw not too long ago, this from apparently medieval times:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I think the spoons or tongs are great ideas. No reason we couldn’t as far as I know. Many parishes were already using tongs for the unconsecrated hosts before the pandemic anyway.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Well there is a guideline from the actual diocese dated July 15 (which is prior to this whole baggie situation)

It’s actually after.
LifeSiteNews article published July 14.
Diocesan guideline (Precept) dated July 15, the day after the LifeSiteNews story broke.
Coincidence? I think not.

 

[CathBoy1]

Yes at the Byzantine Church that I am attending, Father waits to distribute Holy Communion until after liturgy, at which point he wears a mask and gloves and communicates wait in line and approach one at a time and Father distributes the Holy Eucharist using wooden spoons that are placed into a basket after each communicate receives.
I thought that was a wonderful solution and really couldn’t think of a way for it to work in our Latin Churches, but perhaps if small disposable wooden tongs could be obtained that would be a great solution for the time being.

After further thought I’m not sure clothespins would work, they would probably to easily break up the unleavened bread of the Holy Eucharist, small disposable wooden tongs would be much better.

Here is another idea I saw not too long ago, this from apparently medieval times:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

A modern update to this image could be a very good solution.

This could actually be an excellent teaching moment for those who do not share our faith in the Real Presence — “why do you Catholics burn your implements after Mass? — why don’t you just throw them away?”.

Absolutely, I hadn’t even thought of that!

Many parishes were already using tongs for the unconsecrated hosts before the pandemic anyway.

Let’s put those tongs to use!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

stpurl:

Well there is a guideline from the actual diocese dated July 15 (which is prior to this whole baggie situation)

It’s actually after.
LifeSiteNews article published July 14.
Diocesan guideline (Precept) dated July 15, the day after the LifeSiteNews story broke.
Coincidence? I think not.

I know you and I may have to agree to disagree on the desirability of being able to call the world’s attention to local liturgical irregularities (and other irregularities as well), but I think this is a pretty clear-cut case of making sure something got done about it pronto.

I know that traveling in my younger years, going to Mass in various dioceses was “touch and go”, as far as whether you were going to get a solid liturgy, or something else entirely. I came from a very liturgically conservative diocese, and when my family would travel, we’d see a little bit of everything — extemporaneous Eucharistic prayers, general absolution with no grave need (we walked out that time), you name it. I know I brought this up in these forums a while back, but sub rosa video recording of liturgical abuses, even though disliked by some, is proof positive of liturgical hijinks and shenanigans. Whether the bishop chooses to pay attention and act upon it, is another matter entirely.

 

[Greenfields]

No likes left ,agreed, not good.
It also takes away some of the reverence in receiving holy communion,a lack of respect.
Also there is the sad opportunity for the wrong people to have in their hands to take other places.

 

[CathBoy1]

general absolution with no grave need (we walked out that time)

I once walked out of a Mass while traveling because they began playing knocking on heavens door (think the Bob Dylan version, not Guns and Roses).

I was honestly offended, it was a teen Mass, but I mean come on, a good rule of thumb is if it is a song that can be found on a classic rock radio station it probably shouldn’t be used during mass.

 

[otjm]

anyways I’m just saying that the internet can be a useful tool to help put an end to such ”innovations” and even any abuses that may be happening in different parts of the world.

The internet is far less a useful tool to put an end to nonsense than it is to spread the idea of the nonsense to people who had not yet thought of it.

The bishop is the useful tool to put an end to any nonsense.