Questionable Communion procedures in Biloxi Diocese

[HomeschoolDad]

So with that in mind, yes, I do think you can make a blanket statement about how non-Catholics view the permanence of marriage — even the hard cases (which test and prove the rule). I would be very pleased, and inspired, to hear from non-Catholics who are willing to affirm “yes, HSD, even in the kind of lurid scenario you describe, marriage is for life, it’s an indissoluble sacrament, you know-it-all Catholics have no monopoly on that, divorce is a legal fiction that only establishes property and child custody rights, nothing more”.

HomeschoolDad:

Some post-Vatican II developments on things such as ecumenism, religious liberty, and the seeming reduction of extra ecclesiam nulla salus to utter irrelevance, don’t make sense to me either.

Perhaps then you should do some reading on the matter, as all of these issues are well explained by books and articles in the last 50 years, and in particular, more recently. None of them are rocket science or PhD level theology.

I have done precisely that.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

How did we get from the subject of some priest’s questionable COVID-19 communion practices, to something about marriage validity?

Much less all those other topics…

 

[otjm]

If they are of the mindset to be able to say “yes” to that — after they’ve excoriated you for having the cheek to suggest such a thing, two days before the wedding no less! — then I have to question whether they can “do what the Church does” (all sacraments are Catholic sacraments) and confect a valid sacrament of matrimony.

Your comment applies equally to Catholics and baptized non-Catholics. Your focus on non-Catholics is too narrow.

And while Tis_Bearself has pointed out we are off topic, my agreement of the infection of the “world” over its view of marriage applies to Catholics as well; and I look at all the people who appear to have absolutely no clue, as expressed by their horror over decrees of nullity.

And I suspect we have eviscerated the OP’s question, so perhaps this thread can be closed.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

How did we get from the subject of some priest’s questionable COVID-19 communion practices, to something about marriage validity?

Much less all those other topics…

HomeschoolDad:

If they are of the mindset to be able to say “yes” to that — after they’ve excoriated you for having the cheek to suggest such a thing, two days before the wedding no less! — then I have to question whether they can “do what the Church does” (all sacraments are Catholic sacraments) and confect a valid sacrament of matrimony.

Your comment applies equally to Catholics and baptized non-Catholics. Your focus on non-Catholics is too narrow.

And while Tis_Bearself has pointed out we are off topic, my agreement of the infection of the “world” over its view of marriage applies to Catholics as well; and I look at all the people who appear to have absolutely no clue, as expressed by their horror over decrees of nullity.

And I suspect we have eviscerated the OP’s question, so perhaps this thread can be closed.

I find it rather stifling that there is such a “keep it on topic” culture on CAF, but it is what it is, I can either go along with it, or leave entirely. I really want to stay. So I’ll play by the rules.

I will just say that, yes, while @otjm correctly points out that Catholics (many of them, anyway) are just as infected with an incorrect concept of marriage, as non-Catholics are, at least our Church teaches without any ambiguity that the Sacrament of Matrimony is permanent and can only be dissolved by death. People can’t say they haven’t been told. Other ecclesial bodies, by not teaching this, contribute to the infection. If there is another body, Christian or non-Christian, that teaches the permanence of marriage under any and all circumstances, no exceptions, I’d like to know who they are.

The original issue in this thread is a done deal, so I respectfully ask the moderators to close it now.

 

[PianomanD]

As a side note, to attempt the consecration of the Sacred Species outside of Mass, by a priest merely saying “This is My Body” and/or “This is the chalice of My Blood”, is defined in canon law as nefas est , which in Latin is a very strong way of saying “you may never do this”. As far as validity, the way I have always understood it, we simply don’t know.

This actually is valid. During WWII, imprisoned priests were allowed to do this by Papal allowance, I’m pretty sure, since they only were given like two minutes of access to bread and wine.

 

[Anesti33]

You’re pretty sure? @HomeschoolDad is correct, the validity of a consecration like this is unknown to sacramental theologians.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

As a side note, to attempt the consecration of the Sacred Species outside of Mass, by a priest merely saying “This is My Body” and/or “This is the chalice of My Blood”, is defined in canon law as nefas est , which in Latin is a very strong way of saying “you may never do this”. As far as validity, the way I have always understood it, we simply don’t know.

This actually is valid. During WWII, imprisoned priests were allowed to do this by Papal allowance, I’m pretty sure, since they only were given like two minutes of access to bread and wine

You’re pretty sure? @HomeschoolDad is correct, the validity of a consecration like this is unknown to sacramental theologians.

If Mass had to be completed, as you put it, within the space of a couple of minutes, I think it would be licit, under the circumstances, for the priest to celebrate a highly truncated, celebrated-at-the-speed-of-light, “mini-Mass”, skipping over many things that do not have any bearing on validity. Just off the top of my head, possibly a “bare-bones” Mass could consist simply of the Confiteor, a recitation of one or two sentences from the Gospels, just the portion of the canon that contains the words of consecration, the Our Father, and the priest’s communion. That could be done from memory in the space of two minutes.

Just throwing that out there. I’m not trying to dissect “what bare minimum has to ‘be there’ for it to be considered a Mass?”.