Questiong the church on Mary, the saints, & idolatry

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I beleive in the eucharist and the bible and NFP and chastity and confession but i don’t like the way that the church honors Mary. I understood that she said yes to our slvation when she carried Christ. But at the same time there are prayers like hail holy Queen and even the rosary. We don’t need to sing songs about her at mass. i don’t beleive that we should have special devotions to her or the saints. yes, I beleive that they should be used as examples but at the same time I think that we should only give ourselves to GOd. Not anything else. i do beleive that there is some idol worship going on in the church . I think the whole thing with mary and the saints is overkill. I respect Mary and think that the saints can pray for us but we shouldn’t have any special devotion to this. i don’t thi nk that I can even pray the Hail Mary anyomore. maybe I should be Episcopal.
 
cgirl4ever said:
I beleive in the eucharist and the bible and NFP and chastity and confession but i don’t like the way that the church honors Mary. I understood that she said yes to our slvation when she carried Christ. But at the same time there are prayers like hail holy Queen and even the rosary. We don’t need to sing songs about her at mass. i don’t beleive that we should have special devotions to her or the saints. yes, I beleive that they should be used as examples but at the same time I think that we should only give ourselves to GOd. Not anything else. i do beleive that there is some idol worship going on in the church . I think the whole thing with mary and the saints is overkill. I respect Mary and think that the saints can pray for us but we shouldn’t have any special devotion to this. i don’t thi nk that I can even pray the Hail Mary anyomore. maybe I should be Episcopal.
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If you are not comfortable with venerating Mary or praying to her don’t. My wife converted from the Episopal Church and is not nearly as immersed in Mary as i am.
 
Dear Cgirl4ever,

As a catholic you are not required to say the rosary or have a devotion to any saint. You should be respectful of those in communion with us [we are a family of God and the saints in heaven are our ancestors in the faith - like your blood relatives who are no longer on earth]

Some people have a particular devotion to a saint because they feel deeply connected to them…like you might have with a favorite relative who shares a hobby or whom you resemble…your relationship [feelings of love and respect] for that relative do not diminish just because they haved passed on; in fact you might feel closer.

Yes, there may be some who go too far and even fall into idolatry…but we don’t modify or conform all of our beliefs and practices because of someone elses misunderstanding or sin. That would be like prohibiting all consumption of alcohal because some people get drunk or eliminating marriage because some people abuse their spouses…

As for praying the Rosary…do you really iunderstandd what the Rosary is and how the prayers developed? Please take time to read about the mysteries. Below is a short synopsis but much has been written about the mysteries and the prayers. As you can see all of **these prayers point to Christ. **

Praying the rosary has led millions of people to a deeper love for Jesus that translates into a Christ centered faith that is strengthened.

Prayer in general and this prayer in particular has impowered people to go forth and be Christ to the world…doing th work Jesus gave them to do?

The Rosary was the poor [and illiterate] persons way of praying the 150 Psalms…and originally was composed for 3 sets of mysteries:

The Joyful Mysteries: these mysteries are centered upon the Incarnation of Jesus and the joy of His coming into the world. God chose to become one of us and ine with us. God’s love of man is personal and intimate. Meditation upon these mysteries is to experience the depth of Christian joy. John 15:11 “I have told you this so that My joy might be in you and your joy might be complete”

The Sorrowful Mysteries: these mysteries are centered upon the Way of the Cross through which we accompany Jesus by contemplating upon His passion and death. This contemplation reminds us that Christ offered Himself, His very Life, to save us from our sin. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who belives in Him might not perish but might have eternal life”

*The Glorious Mysteries: these mysteries remind us that there is hope, that our life here in earth is just a beginning, not the end. We contemplate our hope in Jesus and the 'place He has gone to prepare for us". At the end of our earthly life we hope to share in Christ’s resurrection and join Mary, our Blessed Mother, and all the angels and saints in knowing God’s glory and singing God’s praises for all eternity. John 14:2a "In My Father’s house there are may dwelling places…And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back aain and take you to Myself, so that where I m you also may be"

And to these original mysteries have been added theese mysteries about Jesus’s Life:

The Luminous Mysteries: these mysteries are centered upon the special events of Jesus’ public life. These are the revelations Jesus gave us about Himself as the “Light of the World”. We contemplate His preaching, teaching and ministry to those in need and at the margins of society. God calls us to proclaim the Kingdo through our works [words and deeds]. Matthew 5:14a , 16 b “You are the light of the world…your light must shie before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father”

During a week a person typically prays the Rosary following this pattern: Sunday - Glorious Mysteries, Monday - Joyful Mysteries, Tuesday - Sorrowful Mysteries, Wednesday - Glorious Msyteries, Thursday - Luminous Mysteries, Friday - Sorrowful Mysteries and Saturday - Joyful Mysteries.

The Rosary includes the Creed, the Our Father, the Gory Be in addition to the Hail Mary and most catholics include scripture passages as well…
*

The Rosary is scriptural, contemplative and Christ centered…
If you, Cgirl4ever, don’t want to pray it, don’t…

Please don’t attempt to remove it from Christian Spirituality…
 
You’ll hear ‘songs about Mary’ at Mass usually only if it is a wedding, a funeral, or a Marian feast day. And do remember that any reason that we celebrate something about Mary is because she is the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate her birth because she was born immaculate --in order to be the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate the Incarnation because she agreed to be the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate her assumption because she was assumed as the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate Christmas when she brought forth her Son.
We celebrate her motherhood again one week. Not ‘her’ but her ‘motherhood’.

Now, throughout the year, there are various local feasts which honor Mary for an ‘appearance’ (Fatima, Lourdes, Guadaloupe) and you do not ‘have’ to go to Mass. You do have to go to Holy Days (above) but remember why they are holy days–because of JESUS.

Too many people ‘downplay’ Mary, as if by giving her any acknowledgement they are ‘stealing from God.’ That’s Protestant thinking, scrupulous and dangerous. For in honoring Mary (as Scripture itself tells us to do), we honor God (who made her) infinitely more.

And every ‘prayer’ to Mary always goes to Jesus. She never ‘keeps anything’ for herself.

If you examine the rosary and its history, you’ll see that it was meant to help the ‘normal average person’ to be able to pray more–to GOD–and that every mystery is steeped in the story of CHRIST–from the first joyous mystery in which Mary, in perfect obedience to God, offers herself as ‘mother of Christ’, to the last glorious mystery in which, in the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and typology, when Jesus takes His place as the triumphant KING OF KINGS, His first action as that king is to place His mother in the Old Testament-supported Biblical position of ‘queen mother’. Far from ‘taking something away from Jesus’, this action not only is thoroughly good from the Scriptural point of view (honoring His mother and fulfilling prophecy), it is an example to us of how Jesus is OUR KING and that we TOO will one day wear crowns of glory in heaven if, like St. Paul, we ‘fight the good fight’ and ‘perservere TO THE LAST in order to be saved.’

As a wise person once said,

No Mary – no Jesus. (without her saying “yes” to God, Jesus would not have been born).

Know Mary–know Jesus. The woman who raised the son of God ‘reflects’ back her Son as the moon reflects the sun. There is no ‘moonlight’ unless the sun is shining. The woman whose first words included, “be it done to me according to God’s word” and whose last were “do as He tells you” shows that Jesus did not achieve His humanity and His human knowledge in a vacuum. Much must be attributed as a reflection of the good that He was taught by His first teacher–His mother.
 
cgirl4ever said:
I beleive in the eucharist and the bible and NFP and chastity and confession but i don’t like the way that the church honors Mary. I understood that she said yes to our slvation when she carried Christ. But at the same time there are prayers like hail holy Queen and even the rosary. We don’t need to sing songs about her at mass. i don’t beleive that we should have special devotions to her or the saints. yes, I beleive that they should be used as examples but at the same time I think that we should only give ourselves to GOd. Not anything else. i do beleive that there is some idol worship going on in the church . I think the whole thing with mary and the saints is overkill. I respect Mary and think that the saints can pray for us but we shouldn’t have any special devotion to this. i don’t thi nk that I can even pray the Hail Mary anyomore. maybe I should be Episcopal.
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Please think of Mary and the saints as your brothers and sisters in Christ that happen to be in the Catholic Heavenly Hall of Fame.

I’m sure you love your own mother and father as well as many other people. If you have children I am sure that you devote a great deal of time and love to them. In no case would I accuse you or anyone of somehow short changing your love of God because you love your family members. This is part of the second of the two great commandments. Love freely given begets more love. It never diminishes any of the love we already have.

We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we are united with those that have gone before us. The heavenly saints are as the apostle puts it, “partakers of the divine nature”[See 2 Peter 1:4]
God has exalted them and we are merely giving recogition to what God has done.

Most of my prayer is directly to Jesus. I find, however, that when I am saying the rosary on a regular basis that all of my other prayers increase.

I hope this helps.
 
cgirl4ever said:
I beleive in the eucharist and the bible and NFP and chastity and confession but i don’t like the way that the church honors Mary. I understood that she said yes to our slvation when she carried Christ. But at the same time there are prayers like hail holy Queen and even the rosary. We don’t need to sing songs about her at mass. i don’t beleive that we should have special devotions to her or the saints. yes, I beleive that they should be used as examples but at the same time I think that we should only give ourselves to GOd. Not anything else. i do beleive that there is some idol worship going on in the church . I think the whole thing with mary and the saints is overkill. I respect Mary and think that the saints can pray for us but we shouldn’t have any special devotion to this. i don’t thi nk that I can even pray the Hail Mary anyomore. maybe I should be Episcopal.
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Remember that bit from Jesus, when he says “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” Saul never persecuted Jesus; he persecuted His Church, which Jesus is the Head of. Not a distant ruler, mind you, but an organ, a part of the Church. Whatever we do to Jesus brothers, we do to Him. The praise of God’s creation, properly ordered, is the praise of God.
 
I used to be opposed to what I thought was idolatry too. I was into fundamentalist Protestantism for a time, and a statue of Mary would send shivers down my spine if I saw one. Now I simply understand her to be an exceptional woman, one who God made and filled with his grace so that our Lord could be born. I think people are very devoted to her because she is exactly what we should strive to be–devoted to a fault, ready to do God’s will at all costs, and sinless.

I have no problems with asking Mary or a saint to pray for me, because the prayers of the righteous are worth so much. Can you imagine, if Mary prayed for you in heaven, how wonderful that would be? It brings tears to my eyes that she might pray for me to be led to God. I think it’s a beautiful thing that I missed out on when I was away from the Church for so many years.
 
May God’s peace, love and mercy be with you all!

As Catholics, we DO NOT worship Mary but honor her instead. Only GOD ALONE is worshiped.

We have to remember, Mary is the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God.

Jesus, despite being God, lowered Himself and became man to redeem us from our sins and took the flesh of Mary, Our Blessed Mother. Of all the women that ever have, do and will exist 'till the end of times, God chose her instead. Imagine, if we were given the chance to choose our mother and create her, of course we would only choose all the excellent and good qualities, virtues in every human being and put it all in our mother. How much more with God Who is Perfect, Omnipotent, Holy and Good? Of course, He only wants the best for His Mother, so He created the best. Since God is Utmost Purity and Holiness, He also willed for His Mother to be conceived without original sin, thus we call The Immaculate Conception. That is why she is so special.

Now Jesus, despite being God, was also a good Jew, who followed the Ten Commandments perfectly. One of the Ten Commandments is “Honor your father and your mother”. Could you ever imagine how God honors His mother? Even if we combine the love and honor that each and every person, angel, saint, that ever have, do and will exist 'till the end of time will give to Mary, we CAN NEVER surpass nor even come close to the love and honor that Jesus, Our God, gives to His very own Mother. For God is infinite and we creatures are only finite. The honor that we give to Our Blessed Mother Mary is only a drop in an infinite ocean of what God bestows on her. So, because of that, no worries, no cause of concern, because we just can never love and honor her enough as God does, each and every moment for all eternity. So, even if we try, it ain’t gonna happen, not in this lifetime nor in the next.

Remember, she is the short cut or the express route to the heart of Jesus. She will bring us closer to Our Good Lord Jesus in the shortest amount of time. No doubt about that. That is a challenge that has never failed.

When we pray the Rosary, we contemplate the life, death and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The prayer is biblical. So, it is actually praying the bible. So, would you think Jesus, Who is the Word made Flesh, be upset with us contemplating His life, death and resurrection when praying the Rosary? Of course not. He would in fact be very pleased about our love and devotion to Him. If God thought for a moment that saying the Hail Mary is so displeasing and offensive, He definitely would have not permitted Archangel Gabriel to greet her and also say “The Lord is with you” nor even have the Holy Spirit inspire St. Elizabeth to say “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the child you will bear”.

About the repetition aspect when we say the rosary, it is like saying to God “I love You” repeatedly. Of course God is not offended by it, nor even gets tired of hearing us say it. In the Book of Revelation Chapter 4, it talks about day and night, the creatures never stop saying “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is and is to come.” God surely doesn’t get tired hearing the same thing for as long as it comes from the heart.

We can never separate Jesus from His Mother. If we truly wish to love and follow Our Good Lord Jesus, then we also have to do the same. Follow and imitate Jesus and His teachings, in the love and honor that He gives to His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is our mother too.

God bless!

Blessed be Jesus and Mary!
 
You can be a good and faithful Catholic w/o ever saying the rosary or one Hail Mary. —KCT
 
Where oh where are you Cgirl4ever???

Are you coming back or is this a hit and run post?

Are you really a catholic who had a concern or an imposter [anti catholic] who just posted a “concern” in order to stir the pot…and perhaps get a catholic [any catholic] to question their faith?

Were are you?
 
YADA said:
Where oh where are you Cgirl4ever???

Are you coming back or is this a hit and run post?

Are you really a catholic who had a concern or an imposter [anti catholic] who just posted a “concern” in order to stir the pot…and perhaps get a catholic [any catholic] to question their faith?

Were are you?
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Don’t be so quick to judge. I make posts all the time where I wait a little while to see the responses before posting. Or perhaps she had some business that had to be taken care of.
 
cgirl4ever said:
I beleive in the eucharist and the bible and NFP and chastity and confession but i don’t like the way that the church honors Mary. I understood that she said yes to our slvation when she carried Christ. But at the same time there are prayers like hail holy Queen and even the rosary. We don’t need to sing songs about her at mass. i don’t beleive that we should have special devotions to her or the saints. yes, I beleive that they should be used as examples but at the same time I think that we should only give ourselves to GOd. Not anything else. i do beleive that there is some idol worship going on in the church . I think the whole thing with mary and the saints is overkill. I respect Mary and think that the saints can pray for us but we shouldn’t have any special devotion to this. i don’t thi nk that I can even pray the Hail Mary anyomore. maybe I should be Episcopal.
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In the center of the Hail Mary prayer, you will find Jesus.
In the center of the mass you will find Jesus.
When Mary said yes to St Gabriel she cooperated with the Holy Spirit and Jesus was born.
When you pray the rosary, you are meditating on the life of Christ through His mother. This is the focus of the prayer not the words themselves.
 
Hello everyone and thank you for posting. I’ms sorry I hve not yet read all of the replies yet but i’ll be working on it. I’ve been busy with school and band. I want to apologize if the way I worded my question was rude or judgemental.
 
As already has been mentioned, Jesus followed the 4th commandment, to honor your father and mother, perfectly.

We merely imitate Jesus in honoring Mary, the mother of Jesus.

God Bless
Jim
 
Tantum_ergo said:
You’ll hear ‘songs about Mary’ at Mass usually only if it is a wedding, a funeral, or a Marian feast day. And do remember that any reason that we celebrate something about Mary is because she is the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate her birth because she was born immaculate --in order to be the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate the Incarnation because she agreed to be the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate her assumption because she was assumed as the MOTHER OF CHRIST.

We celebrate Christmas when she brought forth her Son.
We celebrate her motherhood again one week. Not ‘her’ but her ‘motherhood’.

Now, throughout the year, there are various local feasts which honor Mary for an ‘appearance’ (Fatima, Lourdes, Guadaloupe) and you do not ‘have’ to go to Mass. You do have to go to Holy Days (above) but remember why they are holy days–because of JESUS.

Too many people ‘downplay’ Mary, as if by giving her any acknowledgement they are ‘stealing from God.’ That’s Protestant thinking, scrupulous and dangerous. For in honoring Mary (as Scripture itself tells us to do), we honor God (who made her) infinitely more.

And every ‘prayer’ to Mary always goes to Jesus. She never ‘keeps anything’ for herself.

If you examine the rosary and its history, you’ll see that it was meant to help the ‘normal average person’ to be able to pray more–to GOD–and that every mystery is steeped in the story of CHRIST–from the first joyous mystery in which Mary, in perfect obedience to God, offers herself as ‘mother of Christ’, to the last glorious mystery in which, in the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and typology, when Jesus takes His place as the triumphant KING OF KINGS, His first action as that king is to place His mother in the Old Testament-supported Biblical position of ‘queen mother’. Far from ‘taking something away from Jesus’, this action not only is thoroughly good from the Scriptural point of view (honoring His mother and fulfilling prophecy), it is an example to us of how Jesus is OUR KING and that we TOO will one day wear crowns of glory in heaven if, like St. Paul, we ‘fight the good fight’ and ‘perservere TO THE LAST in order to be saved.’

As a wise person once said,

No Mary – no Jesus. (without her saying “yes” to God, Jesus would not have been born).

Know Mary–know Jesus. The woman who raised the son of God ‘reflects’ back her Son as the moon reflects the sun. There is no ‘moonlight’ unless the sun is shining. The woman whose first words included, “be it done to me according to God’s word” and whose last were “do as He tells you” shows that Jesus did not achieve His humanity and His human knowledge in a vacuum. Much must be attributed as a reflection of the good that He was taught by His first teacher–His mother.
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Amen!
 
thank you all for your replies. I read them all and it seems lik you put a lot of thought into and effort into it. That really shows that you do care. Your getting me over to your side more and more but i’m still not completely convinced. What if we are all wrong about things like this. I get worried like that at times about me not living my life right enogh for God. Anyway thank you
 
Love God with all your heart and believe in his promises to the Church made by Jesus the second person of the Trinity. Pray to the Holy Spirit for peace in your Catholic faith. The Lord will not disappoint you.

God Bless…I will pray for you as I hope that you will pray for me.
 
Pax said:
Love God with all your heart and believe in his promises to the Church made by Jesus the second person of the Trinity. Pray to the Holy Spirit for peace in your Catholic faith. The Lord will not disappoint you.

God Bless…I will pray for you as I hope that you will pray for me.
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of course i will pray for you. What do you need prayers for?
 
Like everyone else I need prayers so as to remain strong in the faith and to grow in holiness. Likewise, I have relatives that have left the faith and are esentially living the lives of unbelievers. Please pray for them as well.

Thanks.
 
Similar to what FuzzyBunny first said, honoring Mary IS worship of God if you understand authentic Marian worship correctly. Your first post sounded like you did not. Your understanding sounded like it is an either God OR Mary sort of a thing. True Marian devotion is Christ-centered! 😃 Maybe learn more about it?? Otherwise the others are correct, if at this time you are not comfortable with it, you can still be a faithful Catholic without Marian devotion.

But think of this. The Saints are good models for the faith, right? They have lived holily and can help us orient ourselves toward Christ, right? Now try to think of a Saint that didn’t have a deep devotion to Mary… 🙂 Kind of telling isn’t it?

Proper devotion to Mary is to the glory of Christ. 🙂
 
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