Questioning wealth of Catholic Church and attitudes

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I am not sure how to begin here but I shall try.

I am a very happy practising catholic.I believe this is the one true church established by Christ Himself. I do however have great concerns about the wealth of the organisation the catholic church and the behaviour and attitudes of some catholics even priests,that have caused me great concern and in fact make me question my very faith.I am concerned we are not doing as Christ taught us.

Christ taught about love and
“‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’ Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’”

-Matthew 22:36-40
If we truly loved one another even our enemies wouldn’t we be doing more on a personal level and as a church?There are so many poor homeless starving people all over the world includingour own countries.It saddens me a great deal and worries me that we are not living up to the teachings of Christ.

There are so many of us catholics with hardened hearts who do not portray the love of Jesus Christ in our actions

Why does the church need such great wealth? Could we not feed the world and give a home to all if we stopped gathering wealth? It comes across to the world as hypocritical of the Pope to be calling for a redistribution of wealth (which I think he very much should be doing) when he is wearing such grand clothes and the catholic church has such enormous wealth.

From Huffpost Religion Today huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/16/pope-benedict-wealth-distribution_n_1154798.html?ref=fb&src

[Pope Benedict Peace Message Calls For Wealth Redistribution

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Noting a “rising sense of frustration” at the worldwide economic recession, Pope Benedict XVI said that a more just and peaceful world requires “adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth.”

The pope’s words appeared in his message for the World Day of Peace 2012, released on Friday (Dec. 16) at the Vatican.

The message laments that “some currents of modern culture, built upon rationalist and individualist economic principles, have cut off the concept of justice from its transcendent roots, detaching it from charity and solidarity.”

Authentic education, Benedict writes, teaches the proper use of freedom with “respect for oneself and others, including those whose way of being and living differs greatly from one’s own.”

Peace-making requires education not only in the values of compassion and solidarity, but in the importance of wealth redistribution, the “promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution,” Benedict writes.

The pope also calls on political leaders to “ensure that no one is ever denied access to education.”]
 
Respectfully for what its worth IMHO not all the wealth of the Vatican or the wealth of the entire richest rich of the world could put a dent in global poverty…and I’m speaking here with the poorest of the poor and even a number of those in the same category who are ignored within our own First World Nations if people are really willing to take a hard look in the streets.

Somehow even with the best of intentions you know charitable monies are going to be mismanaged somewhere down the line. It goes along with the weakness of human nature.
The sickness of Greed affects many.

It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop being charitable and always giving which also goes beyond just material wealth with giving too of time and effort of genuine compassionate love.

Jesus said; we would always have the poor in our mist. Was it just material need of the rightful human need of having basic food, shelter, and medical care He was speaking about? Being poor implies lack of both physical and spiritual needs for survival. When Jesus said; we would always have the poor in our mist I undoubted sure it was prophetic. He knew that the natured folly of man would stop him from sharing his excess wealth with the rest of the world.
 
Thankyou my friend for sharing your insightful thoughts.You have a great heart and soul.
God bless you
 
TBCrawford, I know how heartbreaking it is to see the poor, the indigent, and the outcast; especially those closest to our own homes where we are privledged. Giving to these people who pull at our heartstrings really IS contagious. I have found that, since quitting my job; something I refused to do to this point because I did not trust enough in God’s care, and volunteering my time at three schools/churches suffering the most in my own community, causes people to step up and follow in the same path. Maybe not quitting their jobs or voluteering so much but, just in reaching out. I am confident that, in turn, when they too answer the question, ‘What do you do there?’, their answer prompts the listeners to get up and volunteer as well. If we don’t have money we can certainly make time. Our help may only be a drop in the bucket but, it is something and it is contagious.

God bless you.
 
What an incredible amazing person you are Philotheatoo ! Thankyou for all you do and God bless you.You live a truly Christian life of Christ’s love and lead by fine example.You are right in that we may not all have money to help one another but what we have we can share with out brothers and sisters even our time.
Thankyou for sharing 🙂
God bless
 
tbcrawford said:
… Could we not feed the world and give a home to all if we stopped gathering wealth? …
Click to expand...
How could we feed the world and give homes without “gathering wealth”? Food and shelter are forms of wealth; so how could we provide what we don’t have?
 
tbcrawford said:
I am not sure how to begin here but I shall try.

I am a very happy practising catholic.I believe this is the one true church established by Christ Himself. I do however have great concerns about the wealth of the organisation the catholic church and the behaviour and attitudes of some catholics even priests,that have caused me great concern and in fact make me question my very faith.I am concerned we are not doing as Christ taught us.

Christ taught about love and
“‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’ Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’”

-Matthew 22:36-40
If we truly loved one another even our enemies wouldn’t we be doing more on a personal level and as a church?There are so many poor homeless starving people all over the world includingour own countries.It saddens me a great deal and worries me that we are not living up to the teachings of Christ.

There are so many of us catholics with hardened hearts who do not portray the love of Jesus Christ in our actions

Why does the church need such great wealth? Could we not feed the world and give a home to all if we stopped gathering wealth? It comes across to the world as hypocritical of the Pope to be calling for a redistribution of wealth (which I think he very much should be doing) when he is wearing such grand clothes and the catholic church has such enormous wealth.

From Huffpost Religion Today huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/16/pope-benedict-wealth-distribution_n_1154798.html?ref=fb&src

[Pope Benedict Peace Message Calls For Wealth Redistribution

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Noting a “rising sense of frustration” at the worldwide economic recession, Pope Benedict XVI said that a more just and peaceful world requires “adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth.”

The pope’s words appeared in his message for the World Day of Peace 2012, released on Friday (Dec. 16) at the Vatican.

The message laments that “some currents of modern culture, built upon rationalist and individualist economic principles, have cut off the concept of justice from its transcendent roots, detaching it from charity and solidarity.”

Authentic education, Benedict writes, teaches the proper use of freedom with “respect for oneself and others, including those whose way of being and living differs greatly from one’s own.”

Peace-making requires education not only in the values of compassion and solidarity, but in the importance of wealth redistribution, the “promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution,” Benedict writes.

The pope also calls on political leaders to “ensure that no one is ever denied access to education.”]
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my best answer to this would be that the Church needs money to run its daily workings. The Church has to pay staff priests seminarians (most diocese help pay for a seminarians education). Plus Church supplies especially catholic supplies aren’t cheep. At minimum you have to buy hosts and wine, now I’m sure that isn’t that bad. Then you got the normal up keeping of your average Catholic Church, utility bills, cleaning bills, standard repairs, sound system up keeping and so on and so forth. I could go on and on and on and on about things the Church has to spend money on.

I think we all know that but you might thing the Church should only spend enough money to meet the basics of your basic parish. That while at the surface may seem like the correct thing to do, but I would disagree. I personally think that money should be spent on the liturgy and a decent amount of it. If a priest puts in good money into a liturgy, not just the bare minimum. More people will come to mass, in theory, and if more people come to mass more people will be on fire for their faith, and will help the poor more.

now I’m just making this up but there could be a ratio.

Lets say every 100 you put into the liturgy you get 1000 in work or donations to the poor.

first of all the more ppl in pews the more money that is going to be taken up for a collection.

the more ppl in pews the greater chance that you have more people serving the poor if you parish has programs like that which I’m sure they will.

along with other things.

But putting money into the liturgy is a good thing.

HIre a organist

hire a choir director

put good money into your sound system, so it sounds good and doesn’t mess up that often.

for major feast days like Easter and Christmas, put a little extra money into the mass.

Pay your choir members, along with your cantor.

I know it may seem like asking for volunteers may be better, but if you are paying someone to do something, more often then not they will do better then someone who is only being there because they volunteered to. Plus if you are paying someone you can hold them to standards making your group better. You can’t really do that with volunteer choirs, if its to difficult for someone who isn’t getting paid to stay committed if a choir director demands more from the group.

I think that’s enough of my rant, but using money to bring more glory and honor to God, will be beneficial to the poor, in an indirect way.

keep in mind I think ALL parish churches should give a portion of their money to the poor.
 
let me make on thing clear though, I am against all greedy use of money by any person even a Priest or Church.

but sometimes the Church needs lots of money, and that’s no big deal if all that money is used to bring all glory to God.
 
Much of the “wealth” in the Vatican consists of great works of art. In fact they are so great that they are “priceless.”

These objects weren’t bought by the Vatican as investments, as a hedge against inflation, as a means of creating income, or as a tax write off. They were obtained as articles of Beauty representing Truths about our Faith. They are not to be seen as commodities that can be bought and sold.



And if they were sold, where would they go? To some Russian or Chinese billionaire who will hoard them to himself perhaps?

How much money would be raised? And how quickly would it be spent?

The Church needs to protect this wealth for the benefit of humankind.

It is by being inspired by the eternal truths of these art works, and insipred by the words of the Gospel that we will end poverty. There is more than enough food in the world to feed all people already. It is war, unrest and corruption that causes famine and hunger.
 
triumphguy said:
Much of the “wealth” in the Vatican consists of great works of art. In fact they are so great that they are “priceless.”

These objects weren’t bought by the Vatican as investments, as a hedge against inflation, as a means of creating income, or as a tax write off. They were obtained as articles of Beauty representing Truths about our Faith. They are not to be seen as commodities that can be bought and sold.

And if they were sold, where would they go? So some Russian or Chinese billionaire who will hoard them to himself perhaps?

How much money would be raised? And how quickly would it be spent?

The Church needs to protect this wealth for the benefit of humankind.

It is by being inspired by the eternal truths of these art works, and insipred by the words of the Gospel that we will end poverty. There is more than enough food in the world to feed all people already. It is war, unrest and corruption that causes famine and hunger.
Click to expand...
Beautifully said!
 
triumphguy said:
Much of the “wealth” in the Vatican consists of great works of art. In fact they are so great that they are “priceless.”

These objects weren’t bought by the Vatican as investments, as a hedge against inflation, as a means of creating income, or as a tax write off. They were obtained as articles of Beauty representing Truths about our Faith. They are not to be seen as commodities that can be bought and sold.

http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/rome/san_pietro_pieta.jpg

And if they were sold, where would they go? To some Russian or Chinese billionaire who will hoard them to himself perhaps?

How much money would be raised? And how quickly would it be spent?

The Church needs to protect this wealth for the benefit of humankind.

It is by being inspired by the eternal truths of these art works, and insipred by the words of the Gospel that we will end poverty. There is more than enough food in the world to feed all people already. It is war, unrest and corruption that causes famine and hunger.
Click to expand...
I second this post
 
Let me see if I got this right, you are against wealth but at the same time have your hands out for someone else’s wealth.

You reap what you sow, never covet thy neighbors weath.
 
Hi Teresa:) I am repeating what I believe I have heard on Catholic radio(possibly Catholic Answers) a long time ago, so there is a good chance I may have some of the information mixed up. My brother use to use this argument(about 10 or so years age) to put down the Catholic church so I lookied into it a little–this is what I remember–

each Catholic parish supports itself and the diocese it is in, the Vatican has a budget of about the city of New York, which is probably pretty big, but not huge. This is for the expenses of the Vatican. If all the possessions were sold we could not feed the hungry for long. Those possessions belong to the church at large like the White House belongs to the American people sure if we sold it and all of the other federal buildings we could pay off or reduce our nations debt, but where would all those people who work/live in these buildings go?? And knowing the American govt we would be back in the red in no time;). Usually when people try and use this argument with me I compare it with the white house analogy since most would agree that we can not sell off all the federal properties!! I am sure that this is true in England as well.

It sounds good sell off these valuable treasures, take care of and feed the poor, but when the money is gone we still have the poor. I do think also that the Catholic church is the largest charitable organization and does lots to help the poor and needy all over the world.

Please feel free to correct me if my information is wrong.

God bless you my friend:hug3:
 
There are many other very good comments. I’d like to add that beauty does exist and I believe that God wants us to enjoy that which is beautiful. God does not want us to be mired in ugliness. A theme from Scripture is to give your best to God. I think this also includes beauty. Should we make ugly or plain art depicting matters of the faith? The beauty of the church helps to inspire people in a spiritual way. It helps in the important task of raising us up. If you traveled to an area of a city where sin reigned you’d find ugliness. So while our human mind wants to detach things I think beauty is a central element of our spiritual lives.

I’d also point out that we are commanded to be good stewards of what we have been given. Therefore we should not give things to people who will not properly care for them. Realistically not everyone will take care of the things they have been given. Therefore the more responsible stewards should have more. This is beneficial to all because they will take care of those things not only for themselves but for all. As others pointed out it is a gift to all that anyone can go to St. Peters and see the Pieta.
 
chris138 said:
Hi Teresa:) … My brother use to use this argument(about 10 or so years age) to put down the Catholic church …
Click to expand...
This is a variation of the theme that Pope Pius didn’t “do enough” to help the Jews during WW-II, as though he did nothing. Just how much is “enough”? No matter how much is done, more can always be expected, so he can always find a reason to put down the Church.

You might ask your brother how much he personally does to help the needy and politely suggest that until his efforts reach the level he expects of the Church that he reserve his judgment. :sad_yes:
 
charliedrake said:
Let me see if I got this right, you are against wealth but at the same time have your hands out for someone else’s wealth.

You reap what you sow, never covet thy neighbors weath.
Click to expand...
Amen! If you have to covet a person’s wealth for kudos, then it’s time to let the kudos go.
 
charliedrake said:
Let me see if I got this right, you are against wealth but at the same time have your hands out for someone else’s wealth.

You reap what you sow, never covet thy neighbors weath.
Click to expand...
we are against a misuse of wealth

for example lets take a man who makes 200 grand a year.

one buys the most expensive house he could live in, he buys big TV’s a really nice expensive car, and so on and so forth.

the other lives in a middle class home that is well under his price range, has an old car that is payed off for, and only buys whats he needs with some small luxuries. He donates large sums of his excess to Charitable organizations and his church.

they are both wealthy but one is misusing his wealth the other is living simply and giving a lot of his money up to the poor and disadvantaged.

The Church should be like person number two
 
catholictiger said:
…they are both wealthy but one is misusing his wealth the other is living simply and giving a lot of his money up to the poor and disadvantaged. …
Click to expand...
I disagree with the idea he is misusing his wealth. The items he purchased had to be made by others through their work, which has dignity. What happens to them if he did the same as the other? We would be rewarding inactivity end up with a lot more poor people.
 
catholictiger said:
we are against a misuse of wealth

for example lets take a man who makes 200 grand a year.

one buys the most expensive house he could live in, he buys big TV’s a really nice expensive car, and so on and so forth.

the other lives in a middle class home that is well under his price range, has an old car that is payed off for, and only buys whats he needs with some small luxuries. He donates large sums of his excess to Charitable organizations and his church.

they are both wealthy but one is misusing his wealth the other is living simply and giving a lot of his money up to the poor and disadvantaged.

The Church should be like person number two
Click to expand...
The best option is to let people decide what to do with their own money, govt confiscates enough wealth by means of coveting anothers wealth.

This country needs jobs not food stamps, your envy of another puts people in unemployment lines.
 
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