Questions about Adam and Eve/Paradise

[jgaw1234]

My mother’s students (lower elementary grades) had some questions about Genesis that I tried to answer for her but couldn’t come up with a satisfactory answer. Any help would be appreciated, particularly from a priest, religious, or religious educator.

Was the devil thrown out of heaven or was he in a state outside of heaven awaiting to get in? And when did he get thrown out (before genesis or after our fall)?
Was paradise heaven or a state of being awaiting heaven?

 

[Quis_UtDeus]

I’m neither of the titles you mentioned but I can surely do my best to answer your questions. (I’ll try my best to answer as if I’m speaking to elementary students)

1. The devil is technically an angel but he is, right now, a bad one. This is because when an angel is created he has a choice between God who gives all the happiness (which is heaven) or something else that doesn’t include God (which is hell). The devil decided to choose himself because he thought he could be better than God (which is obviously wrong!) and became the bad angel he is now. Many other angels chose the devil too and followed him.
2. Definitely before Genesis since it can kinda be seen that the serpent is the devil as a tempter. Who tempted Eve before she fell.
3. If by Paradise you mean Garden of Eden then it’s supposed to be a place on Earth.

If you want a more sophisticated answer directed towards adults with a greater understanding then I could try my best at that as well.

 

[Serpent_of_Paradise]

Venerable Mary of Agreda, in her revelations “The City of God.” Indicates the separation of light and darkness in Genesis is a reference to the division of good and bad angels.

 

[hergratefulchild]

Was the devil thrown out of heaven or was he in a state outside of heaven awaiting to get in? And when did he get thrown out (before genesis or after our fall)?

Angels are of a different order than humans. When at the service of God in the earthly realm (including Eden) they become his will, deed and message, like us have their own subordinate will that enables them to choose self and thus are capable of disobedience. The Devil and all the fallen angels have the attention of God and one can say all angels are in heaven and earth but without communion lack almost everything.

 

[spockrates]

My mother’s students (lower elementary grades) had some questions about Genesis that I tried to answer for her but couldn’t come up with a satisfactory answer. Any help would be appreciated, particularly from a priest, religious, or religious educator.

Was the devil thrown out of heaven or was he in a state outside of heaven awaiting to get in? And when did he get thrown out (before genesis or after our fall)?
Was paradise heaven or a state of being awaiting heaven?

So, what I’ve heard taught:

The devil was Lucifer, an archangel (like Michael) and the one who led the worship of God in Heaven.

The devil rebelled against God and persuaded 1/3 of the angels to follow him.

The devil and the angels who rebelled were thrown out of heaven before the fall of Adam and Eve.

He then appeared to Eve in the form of a serpent to entice her to rebell against God, too.

---

However, much of this is based on interpretations of symbolic scriptures. Some examples:

[Jesus] replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

(Luke 10:18)

Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

(Revelation 12:3-4)

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

(Isaiah 14:12-15)

 

[jgaw1234]

Thanks for that detailed explanation. We were both sure he was cast out before Adam and Eve but one student had a question as to when the devil’s punishment came into play (crawl on your belly) and if that was when he was cast out. It kind of dumbfounded me for a minute and I needed some assurance.

What does confuse me is, if Lucifer was in heaven, how did he get cast out? One of them asked, isn’t heaven an eternal state?

Thanks

 

[spockrates]

Thanks for that detailed explanation. We were both sure he was cast out before Adam and Eve but one student had a question as to when the devil’s punishment came into play (crawl on your belly) and if that was when he was cast out. It kind of dumbfounded me for a minute and I needed some assurance.

What does confuse me is, if Lucifer was in heaven, how did he get cast out? One of them asked, isn’t heaven an eternal state?

Thanks

So, anytime someone asks me a question I can’t answer, I say, “Grear question! Let me do some research and try to have an answer next time we meet.”

Regarding the eternal state of heaven, I’d say that since the Son of God left that state to enter our time, and angels did the same from time to time, it appears that one can go from there to here and back.

 

[spockrates]

I like how CS Lewis describes it in his book Mere Christianity. He says time is like a book open on a table in front of God. He can turn to any page (any time) and reach out his hand and touch it. So, living in eternity he can enter any time at any time - past, present and future.

He said this helped him understand how God can answer every prayer. He has all the time in eternity to take his time to interact with our time, listening to every word and responding to our requests.

Great book, that! He wrote it for both Catholics and non-Catholics to enjoy.

 

[edwest211]

God cast him out. A sinful being cannot remain in heaven. Angels appeared to Noah. God can send them.

 

[Seagull]

Satan - shot down in flames - if lightning contains fire !
That’s a super quick ousting -
But arch angel Micheal and many other good angels -fought the good fight.
But talk about mayhem.

I heard Apollyon is the demon in Hell - in charge. Ouch !