Questions about Adventism

[Delraek]

I work with an Adventist and have some questions regarding his religion, but I can’t ask him because he gets really defensive.

Please correct any of my misunderstandings or misstatements.

My understanding is that Adventists believe that the soul dies with the death of the physical body (until the 2nd coming). My co-worker said that he believes Elijah is in heaven. So, my questions are:

Who are all the people currently in heaven according to Adventist belief?
Do these people have physical bodies?
Why were they the only ones to get “immortal” souls?
What happens to them at the 2nd coming?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

 

[St_Violet]

I work with an Adventist and have some questions regarding his religion, but I can’t ask him because he gets really defensive.

Please correct any of my misunderstandings or misstatements.

My understanding is that Adventists believe that the soul dies with the death of the physical body (until the 2nd coming). My co-worker said that he believes Elijah is in heaven. So, my questions are:

Who are all the people currently in heaven according to Adventist belief?
Do these people have physical bodies?
Why were they the only ones to get “immortal” souls?
What happens to them at the 2nd coming?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

When the Seventh-Day Adventists are confronted with scriptures that disproves soul-sleep, they get around to it by claiming that “they are the exceptions”. In my opinion the entire bible disproves soul-sleep. I doubt they can answer why these people escaped soul or what happens to them at the second comming. But I would like to listen to their response

 

[Maria1212]

Check out the sites below my signature, along with the thread called “Resources on Adventism.” Those sites will answer your questions.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I work with an Adventist and have some questions regarding his religion, but I can’t ask him because he gets really defensive.

Please correct any of my misunderstandings or misstatements.

My understanding is that Adventists believe that the soul dies with the death of the physical body (until the 2nd coming). My co-worker said that he believes Elijah is in heaven. So, my questions are:

Who are all the people currently in heaven according to Adventist belief?
Do these people have physical bodies?
Why were they the only ones to get “immortal” souls?
What happens to them at the 2nd coming?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

I am an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I think I can answer your questions and mabe clear up some misinformation you may have received. First I can only speak for this Adventist but I’m sure many would agree our beleifs are not Adventist beliefs but bible beliefs.
Nowhere in the bible does it say that we have an immortal soul. What it does say we are is a soul Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In Gen. 2:17 We read. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die And in Gen.3 we hear the serpent say
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die
Ok God says we are going to die, the serpent says we won’t die. Which one do you think is more credable? God Right? So how come for these six millenia since creation have we beleived Satans lie? The bible tells us there are three individual people in heaven now. They are Enoch, Elijah, and Moses The bible also tells us of a number of people who rose from the dead after Jesus resurrection. Math.27:52,53 These people have been changed as per 1Cor.15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Why these were taken to heaven one can only speculate.
At the second comming they will be united with the rest of the faithful and with Jesus and so shall we always be with the Lord.
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Maria1212]

I am an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I think I can answer your questions and mabe clear up some misinformation you may have received. First I can only speak for this Adventist but I’m sure many would agree our beleifs are not Adventist beliefs but bible beliefs.

Dear Richard,

Adventists exclude the oral word of God, which in and of itself, is unBiblical. Jesus and the Apostles in Scripture told us to follow both the oral, and written, Word of God.

For posters who may not have seen the other thread, I will paste my post here since it addresses what you wrote above.

Adventist interpretation of Scripture differs from that of Catholics and other Christians which leads to separate conclusions drawn from the same Bible.

The other reason the Adventist “either-or-approach” fails with Catholics is because Catholics view the oral and written word of God as inextricably linked: like two fonts of the one spring of revelation. Church Tradition is different from man-made tradition. Catholics regard Tradition as the handing on of Christs teachings (and the Apostles) by written and oral means. Since Adventists do not share this view, it is like "talking past each other" when we discuss our Lords teachings.

As you know, Jesus, and the first Christians preached. We know this from Scripture, from Church Tradition, and from studying history. In addition to studying history, part of it is just plain logic, when we remember mass literacy is a new achievement.

The first Christians preached orally. They didnt hand out copies of the New Testament! Much of the New Testament was not yet written, much less established in its final form. Moreover, as the Bible tells us, not all of Jesuss teachings and works are recorded in the Bible. Catholics believe that Church Tradition is neither more, nor less, than the preserved teaching of Christ as revealed to, and proclaimed by the Apostles. Thus, Catholic doctrine cannot change. We do develop an increased understanding of Our Lord`s teachings, but note this is an increased understanding, not in the essence of this apostolic Tradition.

Tradition, even in the Catholic sense, permeates throughout Scripture. Only a prejudice against such a notion or undue concentration on certain parts of Scripture at the expense of other parts of Scripture (such as solely concentrating on Jesus`s rejection of corrupt human pharisaical traditions, could blind the reader to the Scriptural evidence that supports the Catholic understanding of Tradition and the oral word of God.

Adventist doctrine foolishly disregards what God has taught millions of other Christians throughout the centuries. We must all avoid approaching Scripture with a philosophy that is itself not Biblical. Adventists argue that the Bible is all-inclusive but this is not true. Scripture tells us the written word of God is not all of God`s word.

Frankly, Adventists define themselves by their opposition to the Catholic Church. Adventists force Scripture into Ellen White`s mold. Each Christian must make sure they do not force Scripture into their preconceived mold.

Finally, Catholics do not limit their worshipping of our Lord to Sunday. Mass is celebrated every day around the world.

I recommend to everyone on this thread the following books:

A Biblical Defense of Catholicism by David Armstrong

Crossing the Tiber: Evangelical Protestants Discover the Historical Church by Stephen K. Ray.

Sincerely,

Maria 1212

 

[Delraek]

I am an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I think I can answer your questions and mabe clear up some misinformation you may have received. First I can only speak for this Adventist but I’m sure many would agree our beleifs are not Adventist beliefs but bible beliefs.
Nowhere in the bible does it say that we have an immortal soul. What it does say we are is a soul Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In Gen. 2:17 We read. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die And in Gen.3 we hear the serpent say
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die
Ok God says we are going to die, the serpent says we won’t die. Which one do you think is more credable? God Right? So how come for these six millenia since creation have we beleived Satans lie? The bible tells us there are three individual people in heaven now. They are Enoch, Elijah, and Moses The bible also tells us of a number of people who rose from the dead after Jesus resurrection. Math.27:52,53 These people have been changed as per 1Cor.15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Why these were taken to heaven one can only speculate.
At the second comming they will be united with the rest of the faithful and with Jesus and so shall we always be with the Lord.
Yours in Christ Richard

Thank you for answering my questions.

So, do the people in heaven already have their glorified bodies? And, if so, did their souls die and then come back to life with these bodies?

 

[SDA2RC]

I am an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I think I can answer your questions and mabe clear up some misinformation you may have received. First I can only speak for this Adventist but I’m sure many would agree our beleifs are not Adventist beliefs but bible beliefs.

Welcome to the forum Richard. I appreciate you post. As an ex-Adventist, I had to wrestle with these questions myself… I came to find that the Adventist beliefs do not infact reflect that which is taught in the Bible… and I would like to post here to point out just a very few of the problems that I find with some of what you said. I am sure that most Adventists would believe that the SDA beliefs are Biblical… however, there is an even larger number of devout Christians who would vehemently oppose such a conclusion. Adventist beliefs are based on the interpretation of scripture… which inherently is a human process… therefore Adventists beliefs are based on Adventist beliefs ultimately.

Nowhere in the bible does it say that we have an immortal soul…

This is true… however, it is also true that no where in scripture does it state that humans do not have an immortal spirit. This does not mean that we posses immortality, as God does, for it is His very nature, however, as humans we are given the gift of immortality, even Adventists believe that… They believe however that this gift is only given to a chosen few that make it to heaven, and only after the 2nd coming of Christ. Catholics and most other Christians believe that this gift is given to all by a loving God… however, it is up to us to be faithful stewards of this gift. Bible evidence strongly supports this belief, which is why it is held so widely throughout Christianity.

What it does say we are is a soul Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul…

I see you have chosen one of the Bibles that interepret this passage as “soul” rather than being. Just as many, if not more, Bibles interpret this statement as being, not soul. Likewise, I think you would do well to turn to Genesis 35:18 which states that “her soul was departing” (NKJV, or NASB, or ASV). This passage states that the soul departs when one dies, not that we ARE a soul. That is because scripture uses the term that we translate sometimes as “soul” in different ways in different texts, meaning that we can both we a being (soul) and have a soul (spirit) depending on how the word is being used and it’s context. The two are not mutually exclusive, as Maria said… it is not a choice between the two. In addition, Scripture also uses the word we translate as “soul” to refer to our emotions and other things. Context…

I

n Gen. 2:17 We read. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die And in Gen.3 we hear the serpent say And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die
Ok God says we are going to die, the serpent says we won’t die. Which one do you think is more credable? God Right? .

Whoa… I got to stop you here… If you are taking this literally, then you must believe that Adam and Eve died the VERY day that they ate of the fruit. For the text says that “in the day that thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die”. We know that this did not happen, and we know that God is not a liar… therefore we know that God was not talking about a soul sleep death. I read once in a Jewish article that death was often viewed as a seperation by the Jews, not as a end-all be all. I found this very enlightening. We know that Adam and Eve were not killed the day that they ate the fruit, but we also know that they were seperated from God as sin removed God’s grace from them. I would encourage you to think about this, and see how the view of death as a seperation would impact your religious beliefs.

Let me ask you this… if it is ONLY Satan that says that we will not die… then do you believe that Christ was Satan for he said:
(John 11:25 NASB) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies,
(John 11:26 NASB) and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
So… Richard, I must ask… do you believe Christ’s words here that if you believe in Him, you shall NEVER die?

Continued…

 

[SDA2RC]

So how come for these six millenia since creation have we beleived Satans lie? .

Why is this Satan’s lie? Christ said we would not die too! Did Christ lie too?

The bible tells us there are three individual people in heaven now. They are Enoch, Elijah, and Moses. .

Interesting that you bring this up… Moses died and was buried by God. Scripture never says anything about a resurrection of Moses… tell me, if he is dead as the Bible says… how is he also in heaven, since you do not believe that those who are dead can be in heave? This was a question I had to wrestle with myself when I began really studying my Adventist beliefs with a open mind. In addition, if there are only three people in heaven, then where are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as I am sure you know Christ said:

(Mat 22:32 NASB) ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

If God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he is not the God of the dead, then that seems to be saying that these three are living. Where are they living? Here on earth?

Finally, I must also bring up the fact that John, in the book of Revelation saw the souls of those killed for Christ in heave (Rev. Chapter 6)… how can this be if only three people are in heaven?

Alas, you said that those who resurrected with Christ were taken up to heaven with him… I am sorry… I haven’t found that in scripture?

I ask you these things not to attack you, but to bluntly challenge you to really dig into God’s word and try to understand why so many devout and faithful Christians would disagree with you about this, I hope that the result will be an even deeper understanding of God’s Word for all of us… no matter what our beliefs.