Questions about becoming Catholic

[samovila]

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I ordered the free CD on NFP. Basically it all comes down to how my wife views things. I pray that the Lord would change her heart, and her views. I actually think she is growing cold on the idea of permanent sterilization. Last night she told me she wasn’t sure. The idea of anything permanent scared her. So time will tell. I know her worry about NFP is that she has so much going on she will not keep track of everything. I think more education will help with that worrie.

To be honest I have other concerns, but I think I am at fault for many of them. She feels overwhelmed most of the time. Between church, homeschooling 2 children, and house work she doesn’t have time for a prayer life. I think this has caused spiritual dryness, and overall frustration in her life. I am not even sure if she knows what is wrong (or has not shared it)

My failure is recognizing problems, and not doing anything about it. I have been planning on making an effort to praying together before bed (compline). I think tonight will be the night we start. Things are not bad in our home. I just want deeper intimacy with my wife in our faith.

Thanks again for the great comments

Having 2 children and expecting a third I’m sure is a crazy and hormonal transition for her. Probably not the best time to be making PERMANENT decisions about her fertility. She can decide anytime to get her tubes tied, not just during a c-section. I would encourage her to be completely sure of such a decision before going through it it. Situations change, finances change, and minds change. If I were you, I would approach it from this standpoint. She will not always be so overwhelmed and one day may change her mind. If she’s not entirely sold on the authority of the Catholic Church in this matter, it’s probably best to leave that out of your discussions when you approach her about it.

 

[crazzeto]

So medical reasons are a factor, but not completely. Financially we cannot in good judgment have more then 3 children. We have not used any form of birth control in over a year before we decided to try and have our third. I really think with some education and prayer my wife will turn around to the idea of NFP.

Well… Still talk it over with your Priest then. But I wouldn’t hold my breath on the steralization not being mortal sin. I’d start considering NFP more seriously. I think there must be a known quantity here. What I mean is, we have to know that any new pregnancy will result in serious complication. That doesn’t seem to be the case, it seems more that, this has been the history. But we don’t have any known cause, any known reason, there for we don’t know that this will always be the case with newer pregancies.

 

[rayne89]

There are exceptions for certain procedures (in the catechism) in the specific case of medical benifit. For instance an overary may be removed (thus possibly resulting in steralization) in the case of ovarian cancer. For this sterilization to be not mortal sin, per my understanding, it would have to be done in the spirit of “the mother will suffer grave injury or possible death should there ever be another pregancy”.

You instance has nothing to do with the “spirit of” anything. Removing a cancerous ovary with the side effect of possibly causing infertility means the intent is to treat the cancer the unfortunate side effect is possible infertility. There is nothing immoral about removing cancerous tissue.

Direct sterilization is not treating anything in the op’s case. There is no immediate medical problem being treated. Direct sterilization is done with the purpose of causing one to be infertile not as a medical treatment for something else. The difference is infertility is not the unfortunate side effect but deliberately choosing it.

 

[crazzeto]

You instance has nothing to do with the “spirit of” anything. Removing a cancerous ovary with the side effect of possibly causing infertility means the intent is to treat the cancer the unfortunate side effect is possible infertility. There is nothing immoral about removing cancerous tissue.

Direct sterilization is not treating anything in the op’s case. There is no immediate medical problem being treated. Direct sterilization is done with the purpose of causing one to be infertile not as a medical treatment for something else. The difference is infertility is not the unfortunate side effect but deliberately choosing it.

Yes, but please respond to the launguage of the Catechism. Regardless, given the stated reasoning it doesn’t sound like the situation would warrent the procedure being done with out mortal sin.

 

[rayne89]

Yes, but please respond to the launguage of the Catechism. Regardless, given the stated reasoning it doesn’t sound like the situation would warrent the procedure being done with out mortal sin.

I have congestive heart failure. Another pregnancy would kill me. If I chose to get my tubes tied it would be a mortal sin. Church teaching is very clear.

usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/Contraception.pdf

Also from the catechism

Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

Also see Catholic Answers apologist answer to the question
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=100315

I’m not trying to be harsh. You can get priests to tell you a lot of things are ok. I know I have experienced priests giving me the ok, but I researched what the church teaches on this subject and it is very clear.

 

[kbpipes]

I just want to thank everyone for their support, (name removed by moderator)ut, and prayers. Last night while dinner was in the oven my wife and I where spending some quiet time together in our bedroom. We where talking about various things, and about the baby (she was moving around). NFP came up and I expressed concerns, and my wife agreed that a permanent action was not the best way to go. I shared with her about me ordering some educational material, and my interest in taking a class. She seemed open to the idea, and said she wanted to come to a decision with me that we both are happy with. Thanks be to God!

Now on the becoming Catholic home front I think we took a step backwards, and for now I will curb discussions. Late on when the kids where getting ready for bed she quickly said she didn’t know what to think about allot of the teachings/practices of the church. She said she was not sure she believed them. I am happy in my Anglican parish. We are building good friends. Best friends we have ever had in a church ever! So maybe I need to pray for peace, and to be content with my church.

I will never be ok with some of the decisions of the Episcopal church. I will never be ok with many peoples weak views on sin and morality. I will offer this up to the Lord, and Do my best to be light in these troubled times the Episcopal church is in.

Thanks All

Pax
kbpipes

 

[PeterMuz]

Peter

Actually we are joining a homeschool group. Our first get together with them will be on All Saints Day. My wife is very excited about it. The activities are all in a city about 30 to 40 mils away, but it is the only Catholic group that is active. There are no Anglican homeschool groups that I could find in the area. My wife is the one who is happy that the group is catholic.

Great, I’m glad to hear it. When I was middle school age, there was not really a good Catholic Home school group close by, so I was actually in a co-op with a lot of Bible Christians. But I was involved in a youth group during middle school and high school at the Catholic Church we attended. My mom and a few other Catholic family started a home school group when my little sister was nearing high school.

So medical reasons are a factor, but not completely. Financially we cannot in good judgment have more then 3 children. We have not used any form of birth control in over a year before we decided to try and have our third. I really think with some education and prayer my wife will turn around to the idea of NFP.

If the reason is not completely medical than I would say there is probably no chance sterilization would be acceptable. Financial reasons don’t ever justify sterilization. I would say to study up on NFP. There are a few methods, I would talk to people who practice different methods and see which sounds like it suits your and you wife the best. It does take some time to learn and you may have to abstain a little more when you first start. But it makes the times when you are together that much better.

Personally, I would not recommend anything but the Creighton model. Not because the other models are not good, they are fine, but because Creighton seems to be more complete and have more research behind it. I know women who were told they could never have kids and did Creighton and found some health reason that was preventing them from getting pregnant. These women were able to have kids in the end. There is a Doctor in Omaha Nebraska that some of these women will travel to see because he is probably the most knowledgeable NFP doctor in the world. His name is Dr. Hilgers.

drhilgers.com/

 

[Bella85]

kbpipes, what wonderful news you have shared. I’m so glad that your prayers seemed to have worked and your wife’s heart has been opened to find a decision you are both happy with. Thanks be to God! I will continue to pray for you and your wife, that you will find peace and contentment. God bless you!

 

[crazzeto]

Well I’m glad that at least on the front of “contraception” and particularly “steralization” you’ve made solid progress. With regard to becoming Catholic, this rightly is a slow process. I guess you could say we are the polar oppisates of the Evangelicals who just want to go out just baptising and getting you to say that sinners prayer and confess Jesus is your personal lord and saviour. At least from a Catholic’s POV, talking with these folks it seems like they truely feel like if they can get everyone to just do that they’d save the whole world.

Well I guess I have to say God bless them for trying, though I find it regrettable that some times it leads to more theatrics that theology (Rapture House). For we catholics though, conversion isn’t just that… It must be total and genuine, if you and your wife aren’t there yet then perhaps it’s best you wait until you feel like you’re going to have deeper roots, lest you fall away from the faith later.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I ordered the free CD on NFP. Basically it all comes down to how my wife views things. I pray that the Lord would change her heart, and her views. I actually think she is growing cold on the idea of permanent sterilization. Last night she told me she wasn’t sure. The idea of anything permanent scared her. So time will tell. I know her worry about NFP is that she has so much going on she will not keep track of everything. I think more education will help with that worrie.

Once you get into the habit of it, it will be along the same lines as checking anything else regarding your health. And in fact, those who learn about how their bodies work when they learn about NFP are also really good at detecting other health issues - one woman figured out that she had cancer based on what was going on in her NFP charts, and was able to get the treatment she needed very early, without losing any body parts.

I have been planning on making an effort to praying together before bed (compline). I think tonight will be the night we start. Things are not bad in our home. I just want deeper intimacy with my wife in our faith.

It’s great that as the man of the house, you are taking the lead with family prayer. That will make a huge difference to her level of confidence.