Questions about birth control again

[brendenseth]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms? I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms. NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

 

[Jennifer_J]

It would be a mortal sin. You know it’s grave matter and you are freely choosing it. Why don’t you both take an NFP course specifically for the postpartum period? There are only 2 moral choices to space children, total abstinence or periodic abstinence (NFP). All forms of contraception are sinful.

 

[kozlosap]

PMDD is very serious and not to be taken lightly.

 

[thistle]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms? I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms. NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Use of condoms is forbidden under all circumstances.
Anyone who knows this and still uses a condom commits a mortal sin and if they die suddenly then they go to Hell.
Church teaching is very clear. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.

 

[ZoeyBdo]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms? I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms. NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Pardon my stupidity as I don’t have children and have never been on the pill, but why would she need to go on the pill for pmdd?

 

[stephe1987]

NFP is the option to choose in this situation.
All forms of artificial birth control are forbidden by the Catholic Church.

You should speak to a pro-life Catholic physician if you have questions. And (obviously) take an NFP class.

nfpandmore.org/nfphowto.shtml

 

[JRKH]

The advice given above is the ONLY advice that can be given here.

If you feel that there are particular extenuating circumstances in your case then you need to talk seriously and at length to a good priest.
I realize that you have already spoken to a couple of priests but obviously you still have concerns on the matter. In other words you (and they) have not covered all of your concerns.
A good and holy priest should be willing to sit down with you and work through this matter so that you feel comfortable with whatever conclusion is arrived at.

As for us here…We can do little more than offer the Church’s teaching.

Peace
James

 

[AthenaC]

So, this got me thinking.

I have a couple of friends - married couple, not Catholic. They feel ready to have a baby, so the wife stopped taking her birth control pills. One late evening we started talking about some … details. Apparently they still use condoms sometimes - the husband occasionally has outbreaks, and the condom makes it so that sex isn’t painful for him. Made me think, hypothetically, about the ethics of their situation. It’s not as if they are using the condoms because of their contraceptive effect …

 

[ballin]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms? I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms. NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Hi my friend,

I can fully understand the predicament you are facing.

However, as many have pointed out here, the use of condoms is unfortunately not a viable moral solution. It would indeed be a mortal sin.

The act of engaging in sexual intercourse while wearing a condom would be to reject part of your spouse in an act where it is suppossed to be about embracing everything about her. Therefore it is an intrinsically immoral act. So unlike acts that depend on the circumstances, these acts would always be immoral.

Unfortunately the priests who talked to you seem to be misinformed as well. From the limited information you have provided, it does seem like abstinence would be the only option. But its better to communicate with CAF (just PM one of the Apologists like Fr. Serpa

forums.catholic-questions.org/member.php?u=13

and I am sure he will be much obliged to help you and suggest actual actions you can pursue.

 

[kozlosap]

Pardon my stupidity as I don’t have children and have never been on the pill, but why would she need to go on the pill for pmdd?

If you don’t think that getting pregnant when you are suffering from Post Partum Depression is serious then there is nothing I can say to convince you.

 

[ballin]

If you don’t think that getting pregnant when you are suffering from Post Partum Depression is serious then there is nothing I can say to convince you.

Well, if it is as serious as you say, then abstinence would be the most surest way to avoid any of the complications minus the side effects of the pill, right?

 

[kentcara2003]

Hi, I just happen to read yr query. I know it has been some time since you posted. I just would like to share a few thots.

I am a father of 3 boys. They are a handful to my wife who is a home-maker. Yet in our more sober times, as we reflect THEY ARE A WONDERFUL SOURCE OF JOY AND GRATITUDE AND THANKFULLNESS!!!.

We practice NFP. I am fortunate my wife who is a convert is very strong in her faith and understands that artificial contraception is intrinsically evil. Her answer to any queries abt such temptations and fears about marriage and birth control is “I am committed to Christ.” That is a source of strength and gives me great consolation and reaffirms my own desire to work on mastery over self , which incidentally I’m sure you realise is a life-long struggle…but one which if we are using the sacraments of Confession and Communion, filled with victories and joy!..in spite of our wretchedness and weaknesses and failures.

IF WE HAVE THE AUDACITY TO SIN LET US HAVE THE HUMILITY TO ADMIT IT,…AS WE ARE CONSECRATED TO THE TRUTH, AS JESUS HAS PRAYED FOR US TO BE SO. This will build the foundation of humility which the edifice of our spiritual growth will depend on.

If you hv read Humanae Vitae by Pope Paul VI which was a watershed when it comes to artificial conception in modern times as it very clearly states the “INTRINSICALLY EVILNESS” OF ARTIFICIAL CONTRACEPTION. I would like to point out though the pastorally wonderful solution he proposes. I cant exactly remember his words but it came down to this in spirit…
Let us humbly use the sacrament of confession and acknowledge our weakness and make a firm purpose of amendment to do better
and FEED OURSELVES on the Bread of Angels, the Holy Eucharist, as often as we can,…which not only strengthens BUT ALSO BUILDS OUR TREASURE IN HEAVEN…
Just a gentle reminder, our aim in life is essentially to build ourselves treasure in heaven …which would mean to grow in sanctifying grace,
and the Holy Eucharist is objectively the single most effective means to grow IN THIS , THE LOVE OF GOD…IF ALL ELSE IS EQUAL.( as is the constant teaching of the Church through the ages)

Your wife needs to learn NFP and know her cycle and this would help you to restrain yourself at least for 1.5 - 2 weeks.
This is our path of holiness as married couples. WE NEED TO TAKE UP OUR CROSS AND STRENGTHEN OUR RESOLVE TO BE CHASTE IN OUR STATE OF LIFE.

No artificial birth control, no pornography, no extra marital, and all the other means which the “world” says is OK.
I would also like to suggest one of the most consoling and strengthening means to help you to fill your time when you are not working and engaging with things that occupy your mind…*THE 15 PRAYERS OF ST BRIDGET".
In the first 6 months it may seem very boring and wearisome and frustrating but IF YOU WOULD JUST RECITE IT FOR A WHOLE YEAR…you will not want to leave it…and it will be a wonderful source of merit and consolation for you…THIS IS THE SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE MEANS TO HELP ANYONE WHO WANTS TO GROW IN MASTERY OF SELF…ALL WILL EXPERIENCE THIS IF THEY PERSEVERE FOR A YEAR…I should know this…I am still praying them even after 7-10 years!!!and it has become for me a wonderful source of consolation and joy!!!

God bless.
Kentcara2003

 

[underacloud]

So, this got me thinking.

I have a couple of friends - married couple, not Catholic. They feel ready to have a baby, so the wife stopped taking her birth control pills. One late evening we started talking about some … details. Apparently they still use condoms sometimes - the husband occasionally has outbreaks, and the condom makes it so that sex isn’t painful for him. Made me think, hypothetically, about the ethics of their situation. It’s not as if they are using the condoms because of their contraceptive effect …

What an interesting scenario. Not something I’ve heard of, but I’ll go along with it.

So presumably we’re looking at a potential case of double effect (in short, good effect outweighing unintended bad effect). The good effect is what? The aleviation of pain. But that can be acheived simply by not having sex. Is the good effect that the couple can engage in sex? The Church has never found this to be a sufficiently good reason for a couple to use contraception to avoid an unwanted potential consequence of sex, such as the transmition of aids or other STIs. If avoiding aids isn’'t a good enough reason, I doubt this couples reason would be sufficient.

However, if they cut the tip of the condom off, they could wear it for comfort but eliminate the contraceptive effect. Problem solved.

 

[thistle]

So, this got me thinking.

I have a couple of friends - married couple, not Catholic. They feel ready to have a baby, so the wife stopped taking her birth control pills. One late evening we started talking about some … details. Apparently they still use condoms sometimes - the husband occasionally has outbreaks, and the condom makes it so that sex isn’t painful for him. Made me think, hypothetically, about the ethics of their situation. It’s not as if they are using the condoms because of their contraceptive effect …

Condoms are not permitted for any reason, whether to prevent pregnancy, disease, or “outbreaks”.

 

[1ke]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms?

Isn’t that fairly obvious? You commit a grave sin. That means if you die in such a state you have put your soul in danger of Hell. Until you go to confession and repent and cease this sin, you should refrain from Communion.

I can’t find this anywhere,

It is the same as committing any other sin. I’m having troubl understanding why you don’t know what it means when you commit a sin.

what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms.

What if you are a “good person” who steals something? Or who lies? Or who commits adultery?

You go from becoming a “good person” to a person in a state of ojectively grave sin.

NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now.

You can use NFP to abstain periodically OR you can choose to abstain completely for a while.

I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Oh my God, those priests will have a lot to answer for. I cannot believe they would tell you that!!!

Well, clearly you know better because you are here asking. I am sorry you have been so misled by those you should trust with your spiritual care.

I suggest relaying the “advice” you received to your bishop. He needs to know his priests are leading his flock astray.

Contraception is intriniscally evil. There is nothing wrong with avoiding pregnancy for a time through NFP or through abstaining completely for a time. You were on the right path there.

 

[brendenseth]

First of all why are you comparing the use of a condom to those kind of sins, I would never do any of those things. And secondly what gives you or anyone else for that matter the right to judge me? If i was to listen to all of you people do you know how many good christians are going to hell? And I see all the people who are so quick to judge me have like 7 kids, if we had 7 kids that would be even more of a sin. I don’t even know why I posted anything. I told you my wife has pmdd, but people are so quick to judge they overlook that. The only effective treatment for that is the birth control pill yaz and that doesn’t cause abortions. Also it is accepted by the church FOR MEDICAL REASONS, and would indeed be a medical reason. And don’t treat me like I’m an idiot by dissecting everything I said. I understand what it is to sin, I just wasn’t sure what happened when you committed that sin. Obviously I knew the teachings as I stated first thing in my post. For the people that tried to give me a thoughtful response thank you, for all of the others I’m not looking to be bullied and pressured into making a decision that would effect me and my children for the rest of our lives.

 

[sw85]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms? I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms. NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Use of condoms as a contraceptive method is a mortal sin, so if you use them, you fall out of the state of grace and must receive sacramental confession before you can receive communion again. As with any mortal sin, they place your soul at risk of damnation if unrepented. Any priest who tells you otherwise is simply wrong: they do not have the authority to override or contradict the Church’s moral teachings. (I believe they themselves are sinning mortally by doing as much).

If your wife has a legitimate medical condition (I have no idea if PMDD qualifies as such, but there are Catholic bioethicists you can talk to about it) she may take oral contraceptives if they treat the condition.

NFP may licitly be used in grave circumstances, and if there is valid fear about your wife’s medical condition, then it may be used in that case. (“Openness to life” is a property of the act itself, not necessarily your psychological disposition). If you feel the risk of pregnancy is still too high using NFP, I recommend total abstinence until the situation improves; nevertheless, no one would fault you for using NFP if the circumstances were sufficiently grave.

 

[Nate13]

So, this got me thinking.

I have a couple of friends - married couple, not Catholic. They feel ready to have a baby, so the wife stopped taking her birth control pills. One late evening we started talking about some … details. Apparently they still use condoms sometimes - the husband occasionally has outbreaks, and the condom makes it so that sex isn’t painful for him. Made me think, hypothetically, about the ethics of their situation. It’s not as if they are using the condoms because of their contraceptive effect …

I understand what your saying, your thinking oh their using it for a theraputic reason. The problem is the way they achieve going about solving this theraputic problem is a contraceptive act. The object of the action in this case is still a contraceptive act. The contraceptive effects is not a side effect of the action, its the object of the action. All you changed was the intent/ends of the act. If the object of an act is something that is gravely sinful in and of itself you can never justify doing it for any good intent or ends. This is why contraceptive acts are called intrinsically evil.

 

[casey_zia]

I told you my wife has pmdd, but people are so quick to judge they overlook that. The only effective treatment for that is the birth control pill yaz and that doesn’t cause abortions. Also it is accepted by the church FOR MEDICAL REASONS, and would indeed be a medical reason. … I’m not looking to be bullied and pressured into making a decision that would effect me and my children for the rest of our lives.

Take a breath, brendenseth. Nobody is judging here. You’ve got some very decent and loving replies to your question. Post Partum Depression is very serious and very difficult, and we realize that your wife getting pregnant at this time is not good. The Church teaching is clear, and you seem to be looking for loopholes. Birth control pills are abortifacient, read the pharmacological inserts.

 

[Nate13]

Take a breath, brendenseth. Nobody is judging here. You’ve got some very decent and loving replies to your question. Post Partum Depression is very serious and very difficult, and we realize that your wife getting pregnant at this time is not good. The Church teaching is clear, and you seem to be looking for loopholes. Birth control pills are abortifacient, read the pharmacological inserts.

Actually there are acceptable therapeutic reasons for taking the pill. PPD is not one of them. Birth control pills “solve” ppd by contracepting and preventing pregnancy. Thus the object of the action in this case would be to contracept. You could not argue that the contraceptive effect is just a side effect of your true purpose because its not. The contraceptive effect is how your going about fulfilling your true purpose. If the pill didn’t contracept it wouldn’t solve ppd. That is the definition of an intrinsically evil act.

There are cases where taking the pill for therapeutic reasons is permissible when it actually does something therapeutic and the contraceptive effect can actually be said to be a side effect. A quick way to think about it is like this…

“if I took this medication with just the contraceptive effect removed would it still fulfill the original purpose I’m taking it”

Does this make sense brendenseth?