Questions about catholic marriage and annulments

[chaz0426]

I’m new to the forum and this is my first post. It’s long and it’s just a question I’ve had the last several weeks and I’m hoping to find some answers.

I’m 20 in college (Virginia Tech) and 'm catholic (born and raised) and I’m not even married yet or even close to it. I always think about my faith and other faiths and question things all the time (it’s how I grow stronger in my faith) but I had an interesting thought about annulments that I couldn’t find on wikipedia or even google.

There is certain criteria to make a marriage invalid to begin with and I know that.

But what if everything was fine for a year or more but the spouse wife or husband gradually changes into a different person and has affairs and/or is abusing (verbal and/or physical) and such and he or she wants to separate and not reconcile while the victimized spouse was/is faithful.

How does the church handle that scenario?

I ask because I come across scenarios similar which are main reasons for divorces. However I believe in the sanctitiy of marriage and that too many people today (outside the church, even some in the church) treat marriage like an upgraded courting/dating relationship. They use divorces and even annulments as a way to bail out and not fix problems or counseling.

I believe that the above scenario should be a ground of annulment since the mindset of the spouse at the time of marriage might have been that they could divorce or cheat later but I couldn’t find any other support of that scenario online. Anyone know?

t’s just a question of mine when thinking about marriage as I’ve recently heard of 20 year marriages or more failing because one spouse just decided he or she wants to leave the other spouse (example after children grow up) and is unfaithful ect. while the other spouse was faithful and did nothing wrong.

Counseling or anything to reconcile fails too.

If by the catholic church your screwed per say i’m scared to get married thinking what if my future wife just leaves even when you had complete trust in her. I would want to re-marry after that scenario.

I’m only 20 and in college and don’t plan to marry for at least another 5 years. Just thinking ahead…(primary reason below but you don’t have to read since it’s long)

A family close to my family a few years ago was broken apart because the wife just changed gradually over maybe a period of a year or more (I don’t know the details as I found out from my parents). Like she would go to bars and single places and such and act like she was 25 when she’s really approaching 45 (some mid life crisis or something). However she looks younger than her age. Anyway long story short she would go to jersey ever few weeks for job stuff (later found out it was an affair, no surprise there) and she soon filed for divorce. I don’t know if they are catholic or not I forgot to ask but they never did go to a church of any kind.

Mean while the poor husband is at home raising the kids who are in high school and lovingly try’s to work things out with her but she refuses and says things like " I don’t love you anymore, I wan’t out" and sometimes she would even kick him out of the house!

I haven’t heard on how they were doing for over a year now but I assume they divorced and that the dad is in touch with the kids and the kids are mad at the mother. (the kids aren’t really kids, the two i knew graduated High school and one is close to graduating college)

Anyway we use to be really close to their family and the marriage lasted over 25 years and they seemed so happy the whole time I grew up.

I’ve heard of similar marriages meeting the same fate usually they are right away or a few years after they get married but after 25 years?

It’s things like this that make me afraid to marry catholic. I would never give up my faith for marriage and would rather remain single but I would like to marry someday preferably after college and a job (5 years or so)

But after hearing things like this I’m afraid that this will happen and I’m screwed if I can’t get an anullment because my spouse simply wants out and I can’t do anything about it.

I know the odds of this happening are slim but I always think of the rarest hypothetical situations.

I had a 5 month relationship end around last christmas because my ex gf was seeing another guy and lieing to me about it ect. When first meeting her It took me awhile to put my trust in her since she was my first big relationship (not first gf) but after a few months I did and I almost thought she was the one because she seemd so perfect and was almost ideal and everything seemed great until I realized I looked past several red flags the last several weeks and only when I started questioning them I found out she was seeing someone else and she played it off and lied so naturally and I had no clue until my gut said something. I eventaully talked to the guy she was seeing and found out that she told him I was just a friend bla bla bla.

After me finding out she said she didn’t want to see me anymore and that was that.(I didn’t do anything wrong, she even said that). I’m long over that and I’m happy where I am now being single for a bit.

Anyway my point is is that I’ve put complete trust, love, and faith in someone and gotten hurt before and I hope to love, and trust someone again. But I’d hate to just be left and can’t re-marry because the church says I can’t.

This is one of the few things I’m having a conflict with in thought.

 

[JB2VI]

Good day Chaz,

It’s always great to think ahead and ask questions. As Catholics, we are required to continue learning about our faith and the Church’s teachings. I am not an expert but I would like to provide my thoughts for your consideration. For an expert’s opinion, you can post your question on the “Ask an Apologist” forum. Here goes.

Marriage is a sacrament and is meant to be received only once in our lives. Hence the “until death”. Thus, once a valid marriage occurs, there is no re-marrying. As such, annulments only look at the couple pre-marriage. (I understand that there may be a very …very narrow exception that rarely applies.) I don’t know the exception. For that, you will need to discuss your specific situation with your Bishop or priest. Hypotheticals will not work.

However, for a valid marriage to occur the couple must be fully honest with each other. Thus, if one never intended to have children or to be loyal or to be faithful (etc.) and lied about it to his or her future spouse, then a marriage never occurred, and an annulment can be achieved. So, if a problem comes up after marriage, it must be determined whether the problem actually existed prior to marriage and someone was deceitful.

Now, should you be concerned? No. It’s ok to think ahead and question, but you should not avoid marriage because of the possibilities. If we did, we would never get out of bed. “I can slip and fall and break my neck;” “I can be struck by lightning when I step out of my door.” etc. Instead, we are called to have faith. Faith in turn is built through prayer and active learning in and about the Church.

Before marriage, the Church requires marriage counseling. Titles differ, but they are usually called Pre-Cana Classes, Engaged Encounter, etc. Classes like these ensure that both members of the couple know the responsibility of marriage and the permanency of it. The couples are thought to keep God as the center of their marriage; that they are a “domestic Church”. The couple learns (or should learn) about the role of sex in a marriage, and about natural family planning. If these lessons are taken to heart and then implemented throughout the marriage, the likelihood of “failure” is significantly decreased.

Additionally, in the examples you rely on, you must also ask yourself, what was the cause of the “failure”. In the society we live now, the root causes of many failed marriages are: 1) a misunderstanding of marriage, and 2) contraception being used in the marriage. I am a teacher of natural family planning and I have come to agree with the Church that contraception is truly evil, no matter how or for what purpose it is used. It does ruin marriages. Moreover, sex before marriage is also 100% immoral. It degrades a precious act reserved for marriage.

So how can you decrease your chances of a failed marriage: 1) remove the possibility of failure from your mind; 2) save sex for marriage; 3) discuss your faith in detail with your prospective spouse, leave no room for misunderstandings.; 4) undergo marriage training when that time comes; and 5) pray with and for your spouse.

Marriage is not a bed of roses. It too is a vocation that requires work, faith and God’s Grace. So when turbulent waters come, a marriage well founded in God will stand.

God bless.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Wow, that was a long post! I’m not sure which part to respond to, but here goes.

Once a valid marriage has been entered into:

• one man and one woman, both free to marry, no prior marriage
• both have proper intent, knowing and willing that the marriage is to be exclusive, permanent, and open to life (if, as you write, “the mindset of the spouse at the time of marriage might have been that they could divorce or cheat later,” then it is not a valid marriage)
• no mental illness, chemical dependency, etc. that would compromise their ability to make these vows
• proper form was used (if one or both are Catholic, vows exchanged before a priest or deacon and two witnesses, or a dispensation to marry in a different setting)

… then the marriage is indeed permanent. It cannot be dissolved; God has ordained it so.

The job of a marriage tribunal is to investigate whether any of these conditions was not present AT THE TIME OF THE MARRIAGE. Anything that changed afterward is irrelevant.

Now, sometimes situations (e.g., lack of proper intent) existed from the beginning, but do not manifest themselves until later. Behavior might change because of a pre-existing condition which could invalidate the marriage. The investigation should find this out.

Sometimes the marriage was valid from the beginning, but one or both of the partners change for the worse. I guess this is where “for better or for worse” comes in. However, the Church does not prevent the couple from separating (or even getting a civil divorce) if staying together would endanger one or both of the partners or their children. But they would still be married in the eyes of God and not free to date or marry.

It’s things like this that make me afraid to marry catholic. I would never give up my faith for marriage and would rather remain single …

I think that’s a bit of an overreaction. Christ instituted the sacrament of Matrimony because it is a good thing, not something to be feared. You have to trust Him. Enter into marriage not as just a couple, but as three persons — you, your spouse, and Christ — and trust that God will give you the graces you need to make it a holy marriage. Start praying now for your future spouse (even if you haven’t met her yet). When you do meet someone who might possibly be the right person to spend your life with, pray together daily (for the rest of your lives).

You may or may not be called to the vocation of marriage; pray about that too. But don’t let the fact that others have failed make you assume that your future marriage would be doomed to failure.

 

[1ke]

But what if everything was fine for a year or more but the spouse wife or husband gradually changes into a different person and has affairs and/or is abusing (verbal and/or physical) and such and he or she wants to separate and not reconcile while the victimized spouse was/is faithful.

How does the church handle that scenario?

I believe that the above scenario should be a ground of annulment since the mindset of the spouse at the time of marriage might have been that they could divorce or cheat later but I couldn’t find any other support of that scenario online. Anyone know?

It’s not enough to say that the mindset “might” have been X,Y, Z.

If there is **proof **that the spouse had an intention against one of the properties of marriage or had invalid consent at the time of marriage, then yes it would be invalid.

In absence of such proof, then the marriage could be found valid. The subsequent infidelity is not, in-and-of-itself, “proof” of any invalid consent/intent.

If by the catholic church your screwed per say i’m scared to get married thinking what if my future wife just leaves even when you had complete trust in her. I would want to re-marry after that scenario.

I’m only 20 and in college and don’t plan to marry for at least another 5 years. Just thinking ahead…(primary reason below but you don’t have to read since it’s long)

Well, this is the very best reason that there is to carefully discern marriage and the character of the person you are marrying. The first sign of trouble is if the person is not a practicing Catholic. The second sign is if you see that although practicing they do not live the virtues and live their faith. The third is to discuss in-depth all aspect of marriage with them.

But, ultimately, yes you do put yourself totally in the care of the other. And, you have to have faith that they will uphold their end of the covenant. But, if they don’t it is still your duty to do so.

(as an aside: small linguistics lesson… it is ‘per se’ not ‘per say’. Per se is a Latin term “by itself” or “innately”)

I’ve heard of similar marriages meeting the same fate usually they are right away or a few years after they get married but after 25 years?

Things that often appear “out of the blue” to those outside the marriage are not such a surprise to those in the marriage. Sometimes it’s a matter of the spouse changing, but truly it is pretty rare for someone to have a complete personality transplant. Often there were signs all along regarding this person’s character. Affairs can happen to good people, but they can also be overcome.

But after hearing things like this I’m afraid that this will happen and I’m screwed if I can’t get an anullment because my spouse simply wants out and I can’t do anything about it.

While it would be unfortunate if your spouse left you, your repeated reference to the word “screwed” seems to imply that you don’t think there is life beyond marriage. If your spouse were to leave you, refuse to reconcile, and your marriage is valid-- then you would simply go on in life striving for holiness as Christ has called us all to do.

and everything seemed great until I realized I looked past several red flags the last several weeks and only when I started questioning them I found out she was seeing someone else and she played it off and lied so naturally and I had no clue until my gut said something. I eventaully talked to the guy she was seeing and found out that she told him I was just a friend bla bla bla.

Yes, see, there it is. She had character flaws all along and you ignored them. The red flags will wave, and you can choose to ignore them or to heed them. A wise man does not build on the sandy or rocky soil. So, the wise dater is always looking at a person’s character and using dating as a disernment process for marriage not for something “fun” to do.

Anyway my point is is that I’ve put complete trust, love, and faith in someone and gotten hurt before and I hope to love, and trust someone again. But I’d hate to just be left and can’t re-marry because the church says I can’t.

This is one of the few things I’m having a conflict with in thought.

Because people have free will to choose sin, there will always be people who hurt us. You cannot hide from the world and you canot withhold your love because of fear. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is the example of the way we are called to love, even when those we love hurt us.

I recommend Fulton Sheen’s book Three To Get Married. Read it. It’s awesome.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is certain criteria to make a marriage invalid to begin with and I know that.

But what if everything was fine for a year or more but the spouse wife or husband gradually changes into a different person and has affairs and/or is abusing (verbal and/or physical) and such and he or she wants to separate and not reconcile while the victimized spouse was/is faithful.

How does the church handle that scenario?

This is one of the few things I’m having a conflict with in thought.

Remember that a Sacrament takes place at one point in time. The Sacrament of Marriage took place say at 2:20 pm on March 25 2005. Many times we hear that people are entering into the Sacrament of Marriage. But that is incorrect. They are entering into a Sacramental Marriage. The Sacrament was or as not valid at 2:20 PM on March 25th 2005. It does not become invalid or valid over time. The best advice is to make sure you know the person you intend to Marry well, their background, history, family, beliefs. Both must enter into the Marriage with the full understanding of what Marriage is, what it is not and that it is permanent once validly celebrated. People and situations change, but the fact that you are or are not Married does not. Separation sometimes is best, for certain reasons, even “permament” (civil divorce), but that does not change the fact that you are still Married. It only effects the legal or civil relationship of the two people involved.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is certain criteria to make a marriage invalid to begin with and I know that.

But what if everything was fine for a year or more but the spouse wife or husband gradually changes into a different person and has affairs and/or is abusing (verbal and/or physical) and such and he or she wants to separate and not reconcile while the victimized spouse was/is faithful.

How does the church handle that scenario?

This is one of the few things I’m having a conflict with in thought.

Remember that a Sacrament takes place at one point in time. The Sacrament of Marriage took place say at 2:20 pm on March 25 2005. Many times we hear that people are entering into the Sacrament of Marriage. But that is incorrect. They are entering into a Sacramental Marriage. The Sacrament was or as not valid at 2:20 PM on March 25th 2005. It does not become invalid or valid over time. The best advice is to make sure you know the person you intend to Marry well, their background, history, family, beliefs. Both must enter into the Marriage with the full understanding of what Marriage is, what it is not and that it is permanent once validly celebrated. People and situations change, but the fact that you are or are not Married does not. Separation sometimes is best, for certain reasons, even “permament” (civil divorce), but that does not change the fact that you are still Married. It only effects the legal or civil relationship of the two people involved.