Questions about Catholics honoring Mary

[The_One_Duck]

I am Catholic, and I have some questions on Catholics honoring Mary.

1. I understand that we Catholics claim not to worship Mary, but in the Hail Holy Queen prayer one says at the end of the Rosary it says “Our life, our sweetness and our hope” as well as “To thee do we cry poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.” Those lines are not explicitly lines of worship, but they seem to be pretty close.

Or in the Memorare prayer: “I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

These lines do seem close to worship, however I really would love to be proven wrong. Again, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that we do not pray TO Mary, we honor her and ask for her intercession to pray for us, just as we would ask any other saint in Heaven.

1. Another thing I am confused on is co mediatrix. I am sure we can all agree that the Bible says there is one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Jesus. My understanding is that co mediatrix almost completely contradicts this teaching.

I believe I read somewhere on a Catholic website that every doctrine of the Catholic Church can be found directly or indirectly in Scripture. So please, do prove me wrong.

My take on all of these questions is that Catholics ALMOST elevate Mary to the position of a god. I read on a Protestant website (which I know I cannot trust) that Catholics hold Mary in such high regard, that they almost turn the Trinity into a sort of quartet, and this is a pretty good way to describe my questions. Again, I believe in asking Mary for her intercession as well as honoring her, as she is the most respected saint in heaven. Thank you for all your help, and God bless you all.

 

[edward_george1]

Those lines are not explicitly lines of worship, but they seem to be pretty close.

How so? Nowhere do they say explicitly or even imply that Mary is a goddess of some kind and that we are paying her the honor due to a goddess. You might say that someone here on earth that you love intensely is your “life, your sweetness, and your hope,” and you might turn to your own mother “mourning and weeping” when you are in distress. We wouldn’t say you’re worshipping someone on earth by referring to them in that way.

These lines do seem close to worship, however I really would love to be proven wrong. Again, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that we do not pray TO Mary, we honor her and ask for her intercession to pray for us, just as we would ask any other saint in Heaven.

Yep, and that’s exactly what is being said in the Memorare. “Despise not our petitions,” meaning the petitions we offer Mary so that she may intercede for us. If you petition me or the court or the government to ask for something, you might think the same thing.

I believe I read somewhere on a Catholic website that every doctrine of the Catholic Church can be found directly or indirectly in Scripture. So please, do prove me wrong.

It sounds like you’re conflating “Co-Redemptrix” with “Mediatrix,” but I’ll answer both. Mary is “Co-Redemptrix” not because her action somehow redeems us, but because she was given a share, a very important one, in the redeeming action of Christ. Her “yes” brought Christ into the world, who is our redeemer. In Latin, “co” doesn’t have to mean that she is an equal in doing this, it rather means that she had some part along with Jesus. And really, everyone who follows Jesus has a share in manifesting his redeeming work in the world.

As for mediating, this one has been talked about on here dozens of times, but there is indeed one mediator, as Scripture says, and it is Jesus Christ. He is the primary and principal mediator. However, we can pray to him and he mediates with us to the Father, and we can pray on behalf of others, and are encouraged to do so in Scripture. In this way, we serve as mediators for one another, though our mediatorship is secondary to that of Christ and in fact depends upon his. It doesn’t contradict that there is one primary and principal mediator to say that others mediate with him as well, for the fact that we can mediate with him depends upon him being a mediator.

My take on all of these questions is that Catholics ALMOST elevate Mary to the position of a god.

Not true, we just give her a very high honor, since she was the mother of Jesus. Why wouldn’t we? She says herself in the Magnificat in Luke’s Gospel that “all generations will call me blessed.”

 

[edward_george1]

. I read on a Protestant website (which I know I cannot trust)

Then don’t do that. Why would you read Protestant websites for information about what Catholics believe? If I wanted to know about you, would I talk to you, or would I ask someone who was opposed to you somehow? I’m not going to get an accurate account if I ask the neighbor with whom you don’t get along.

that they almost turn the Trinity into a sort of quartet

Which is a lie. Mary is a human. Mary is a very special human, she was Immaculately Conceived, as is borne out by the witness of Scripture (Gabriel calls her “full of grace,” and the term indicates that she has been made perfect in God’s grace, from the moment she began to exist; and Mary doesn’t fall down prostrate in the presence of an angel, but simply converses with him, as though it’s no big deal, something that wouldn’t have happened if not for her purity). But Mary is still a human, and anyone, Catholic or otherwise, who tries to insert her into the Trinity is committing idolatry.

Again, I believe in asking Mary for her intercession as well as honoring her, as she is the most respected saint in heaven.

And all of your questions concern ways of doing that. There’s nothing you’ve quoted from those prayers that indicates otherwise.

Hope this helps!
-Fr ACEGC

 

[The_One_Duck]

Wow, my good sir, thank you very much. So the whole “Co mediatrix” thing, are you saying something like “Mary joins us in the mediation as well all the other saints in Heaven, and even each other.”? Is the co mediatrix teaching just another way of saying that Mary can not only pray for us, but is also the most IMPORTANT person to ask for prayers? I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions, and God bless you.

 

[edward_george1]

Is the co mediatrix teaching just another way of saying that Mary can not only pray for us, but is also the most IMPORTANT person to ask for prayers?

I’m not sure where you get that she is the “most important person to ask for prayers,” but she certainly is a good one to ask for prayers, and the Church has always encouraged us to do so. It’s not really helpful to rank things a lot of the time, as it were. I guess she is the most important person to ask for prayers in the sense that she is the most important person, after Jesus himself, and we should ask for her prayers.

Again, it’s not “co-mediatrix,” it’s that she’s usually described as “Mediatrix of All Graces.” And before you say this sounds like we’re making her into a goddess or something, think of it logically: Jesus is the source of all grace. Mary brought Jesus into the world. Mary is thus the mediator by which Jesus came into the world. Ergo, Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces.

 

[The_One_Duck]

Oh ok I think I see what your saying. But what does the Bible mean when it says Jesus is the only mediator? What, then, is Jesus the mediator of? Thanks for your help

 

[phoage]

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that we do not pray TO Mary, we honor her and ask for her intercession to pray for us, just as we would ask any other saint in Heaven.

Actually, we do pray to Mary, as we do to other saints.
The word pray comes from Old English as in Pray tell? another word for please, a polite request. There is nothing wrong with asking her to talk to her Son for us. It is not worship.

Patrick
AMDG

 

[Pai_Nosso]

What, then, is Jesus the mediator of?

Christ is the mediator to all Christians.
Catholics can choose to go through the Virgin as mediator if they like as well

 

[The_One_Duck]

Christ is the mediator to all Christians.
Catholics can choose to go through the Virgin as mediator if they like as well

So by that logic then, are there TWO mediators? You seem to be saying something like “you may choose either to go to Jesus or Mary”. But correct me if I am wrong

 

[The_One_Duck]

Actually, we do pray to Mary, as we do to other saints.
The word pray comes from Old English as in Pray tell? another word for please, a polite request. There is nothing wrong with asking her to talk to her Son for us. It is not worship.

Patrick
AMDG

Oh okay. So in my question that you replied to I actually made some sort of a contradiction in saying “we ask Mary to pray for us, but we don’t pray TO her”. So youre saying that praying to someone and asking them for something is basically the same thing?

 

[Pai_Nosso]

So by that logic then, are there TWO mediators? You seem to be saying something like “you may choose either to go to Jesus or Mary”. But correct me if I am wrong

Yes that is my understanding of it. Does it seem to support or contradict scripture?

 

[OddBird]

But what does the Bible mean when it says Jesus is the only mediator?

Only Jesus could die on the cross and rise again on Easter Day, for the redemption of all humanity and its reconciliation with God.

But, as Father said above, He wouldn’t have come into the world if not for Mary’s “yes”.

 

[The_One_Duck]

Yes that is my understanding of it. Does it seem to support or contradict scripture?

Well it does seem to contradict Scripture, as it is written several times in Scripture that there is only one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Jesus

 

[The_One_Duck]

Only Jesus could die on the cross and rise again on Easter Day, for the redemption of all humanity and its reconciliation with God.

But, as Father said above, He wouldn’t have come into the world if not for Mary’s “yes”.

Oh ok. I think that this doctrine is quite confusing, but I think I am beginning to get it. Thanks

 

[brianjmc1]

Catholics “pray” to Mary as a mediator- YES. As we pray to Saints also…

The term “pray” means to ask for, so we are asking Mary to intercede to Jesus on our behalf. There are many, many mediators in each and everyone’s life!!! now before people jump down my throat, there is ONLY ONE mediator to the Father - Jesus Christ.

It’s the same thing as asking a parent to pray on our behalf, or friends, or your church, etc… Why do you ask them to do this? Can’t you just go to Christ, yes, and you should, but we are taught in scripture to pray for each other…

People confuse praying with worship. Only God is worthy of worship, period!

Now, I never understood how Christians, can push Mary off and say, yeah she was holy and all that, but just like everyone else - NO

Mary is the new Eve(Eve was called Woman, until the fall, then named Eve). She was obedient compared to Eve’s disobedient. Mary is the Woman at the wedding, at the foot of the cross, the Mother given to St. John, at Pentecost, and the Woman of Revelation, with a crown of stars - hence when they angel greeted her he said “Hail” = royalty, with the title “Full of Grace” Look at old testament and see who King David bowed to - the Queen mother, not his wives, etc…

tie in Mary as the ark of the New covenant, The ark of the old testament, you couldn’t even touch(Uzzah), now you have a woman who’s womb contains the word made flesh. What was in the ark of the covenant, and in the womb of Mary - three things(word of God, Staff of Aron(priesthood), manna from heavan\word made flesh, high priest, bread of life)…There are countless more reasons…
Brian

 

[edward_george1]

Oh ok I think I see what your saying. But what does the Bible mean when it says Jesus is the only mediator? What, then, is Jesus the mediator of?

I answered this when I said:

As for mediating, this one has been talked about on here dozens of times, but there is indeed one mediator, as Scripture says, and it is Jesus Christ. He is the primary and principal mediator. However, we can pray to him and he mediates with us to the Father, and we can pray on behalf of others, and are encouraged to do so in Scripture. In this way, we serve as mediators for one another, though our mediatorship is secondary to that of Christ and in fact depends upon his. It doesn’t contradict that there is one primary and principal mediator to say that others mediate with him as well, for the fact that we can mediate with him depends upon him being a mediator.

 

[The_One_Duck]

Catholics “pray” to Mary as a mediator- YES. As we pray to Saints also…

The term “pray” means to ask for, so we are asking Mary to intercede to Jesus on our behalf. There are many, many mediators in each and everyone’s life!!! now before people jump down my throat, there is ONLY ONE mediator to the Father - Jesus Christ.

It’s the same thing as asking a parent to pray on our behalf, or friends, or your church, etc… Why do you ask them to do this? Can’t you just go to Christ, yes, and you should, but we are taught in scripture to pray for each other…

People confuse praying with worship. Only God is worthy of worship, period!

Now, I never understood how Christians, can push Mary off and say, yeah she was holy and all that, but just like everyone else - NO

Mary is the new Eve(Eve was called Woman, until the fall, then named Eve). She was obedient compared to Eve’s disobedient. Mary is the Woman at the wedding, at the foot of the cross, the Mother given to St. John, at Pentecost, and the Woman of Revelation, with a crown of stars - hence when they angel greeted her he said “Hail” = royalty, with the title “Full of Grace” Look at old testament and see who King David bowed to - the Queen mother, not his wives, etc…

tie in Mary as the ark of the New covenant, The ark of the old testament, you couldn’t even touch(Uzzah), now you have a woman who’s womb contains the word made flesh. What was in the ark of the covenant, and in the womb of Mary - three things(word of God, Staff of Aron(priesthood), manna from heavan\word made flesh, high priest, bread of life)…There are countless more reasons…
Brian

Very well put, sir. Thank you

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Mary is the new Eve

Is this a doctrine that is in the Catechism?

 

[patricius79]

It might help if you carefully read Vatican II’s teaching about Mary.

Jesus Christ is the One Mediator with the Father. Mary adds nothing to His grace and subtracts nothing.

She is, so to speak, part of His grace. She is our Mediatrix with Christ, because of our weakness and because Christ wanted to honor His Mother this way.

 

[patricius79]

Yes, and in Vatican II.