Questions about Christ

[Xuan]

This morning I was thinking about some things, and I find them all very confusing.

As I understand it, when Christ walked the earth, He was both fully human (human body and human soul) and fully divine (second person of the Trinity also inhabiting His human body). Is this correct?

When He died and descended into Hell, did both His human soul and His divine essence go there?

Currently, is His human soul inhabiting His glorified body, and is His divine essence (second person of the Trinity) also inhabiting His glorified Body? Or is It separate?

Thank you in advance for any authoritative answers you can give.

Xuan

 

[1ke]

As I understand it, when Christ walked the earth, He was both fully human (human body and human soul) and fully divine (second person of the Trinity also inhabiting His human body). Is this correct?

The hypostatic union can be difficult to grasp at times.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1J.HTM

When He died and descended into Hell, did both His human soul and His divine essence go there?

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

is His human soul inhabiting His glorified body, and is His divine essence (second person of the Trinity) also inhabiting His glorified Body? Or is It separate?

Christ is both fully human and fully divine. He is a divine person. He is one person with two natures.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1S.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1T.HTM

 

[Xuan]

The hypostatic union can be difficult to grasp at times.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1J.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

Christ is both fully human and fully divine. He is a divine person. He is one person with two natures.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1S.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1T.HTM

Thank you. After reading those, I gather that His human soul is combined with His divine essence (second person of the Trinity) in His glorified body, as one Person, fully human and fully divine. Is that correct?

Xuan

 

[1ke]

Thank you. After reading those, I gather that His human soul is combined with His divine essence (second person of the Trinity)

The Church doesn’t use that terminology, “divine essence”.

Jesus is one person, fully human and fully divine. He has both a divine and human nature, not essence.

 

[mikekle]

Personally, I believe when Jesus was born as a newborn human baby, it was very clear he was not a normal person to those witnessing it, I think he probably was able to speak right away and able to have complex discussions, as well as walking, standing, etc

 

[Neofight]

The Church doesn’t use that terminology, “divine essence”.

Jesus is one person, fully human and fully divine. He has both a divine and human nature, not essence.

The concept of the divine essence is very Catholic. See St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theological, Question XXXIX of the Persons in Relation to the Essence (in Eight Articles).

 

[GEddie]

While it would be somewhat inaccurate to speak of “parts” being “inside” the body, (a human being, or human-divine being, **is his body); **. Our LORD is one being! Wherever his body is, there is all of HIM.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Personally, I believe when Jesus was born as a newborn human baby, it was very clear he was not a normal person to those witnessing it, I think he probably was able to speak right away and able to have complex discussions, as well as walking, standing, etc

I’d take issue with that; such complex human behaviors require that the body grow sufficiently to support them.

Speech requires an at least partially developed larynx, and must be learned.

Walking requires leg and body muscles that have developed enough to absorb the body weight, and must also be learnt.

Taking on humanhood meant that HE took on all our limitations, else HE only **looked **human.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mikekle]

I’d take issue with that; such complex human behaviors require that the body grow sufficiently to support them.

Speech requires an at least partially developed larynx, and must be learned.

Walking requires leg and body muscles that have developed enough to absorb the body weight, and must also be learnt.

Taking on humanhood meant that HE took on all our limitations, else HE only **looked **human.

ICXC NIKA

Well, for a baby to be conceived in the first place, male sperm is needed, we know this didnt happen with the birth of Jesus…thus my point, this was a unique event, and he was a unique baby/ person, so I dont think the normal rules applied.

 

[GEddie]

Well, for a baby to be conceived in the first place, male sperm is needed, we know this didnt happen with the birth of Jesus…thus my point, this was a unique event, and he was a unique baby/ person, so I dont think the normal rules applied.

But given that the Scriptures say nothing about our LORD being any kind of “superkid”, that is all conjecture.

The birth of our LORD in the absence of male DNA is just the reverse of what happened with Eve, who formed from Adam’s body, in the absence of female DNA. This was miraculous, but did not make her Wonder Woman.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Xuan]

While it would be somewhat inaccurate to speak of “parts” being “inside” the body, (a human being, or human-divine being, **is his body); **. Our LORD is one being! Wherever his body is, there is all of HIM.

ICXC NIKA

My understanding is that the soul is the ‘principle of life’, it animates the body. The soul can exist without the body, but the body can’t continue existing without the soul. Apparently when we die, our nature changes from ‘human’ to ‘pure spirit’. Except for Christ, everyone in Heaven exists as a pure spirit, the highest form of being.

This brings up another issue I find very confusing. After the Final Judgement, these pure spirits will again be joined to a body. That’s a huge demotion, going from pure spirit, the highest form of being, to a being that has a body. Even if it’s a glorified body, it’s still a huge downgrade.

This too, is something I’ve thought about, but don’t understand.

Xuan

 

[GEddie]

My understanding is that the soul is the ‘principle of life’, it animates the body. The soul can exist without the body, but the body can’t continue existing without the soul. Apparently when we die, our nature changes from ‘human’ to ‘pure spirit’. Except for Christ, everyone in Heaven exists as a pure spirit, the highest form of being.

This brings up another issue I find very confusing. After the Final Judgement, these pure spirits will again be joined to a body. That’s a huge demotion, going from pure spirit, the highest form of being, to a being that has a body. Even if it’s a glorified body, it’s still a huge downgrade.

This too, is something I’ve thought about, but don’t understand.

Xuan

We are human beings, so for us, existing as a pure-spirit is a punishment and the ultimate disablement, not in any way an advantage.

We were always meant to be bodies, and everything our soul-mind can do requires the services of a body.

Without the eyes of your body, you are blind.

Without the body’s limbs, there is no movement.

Without the nose, there is no smelling.

Without your head to hold the thoughts and memories, there can be no mind, except in an abeyance.

The overadmiration for pure-spirit probably comes from a misunderstanding of Thomism, but you are never going to be an angel. Get used to it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Xuan]

We are human beings, so for us, existing as a pure-spirit is a punishment and the ultimate disablement, not in any way an advantage.

ICXC NIKA

The souls who are currently in Heaven are being punished?

Xuan

 

[1ke]

The concept of the divine essence is very Catholic. See St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theological, Question XXXIX of the Persons in Relation to the Essence (in Eight Articles).

Not as expressed here-- as “inhabiting” Jesus’s body.

 

[1ke]

Apparently when we die, our nature changes from ‘human’ to ‘pure spirit’. Except for Christ, everyone in Heaven exists as a pure spirit, the highest form of being.

Our nature does not change. We remain human. Our soul is separated from our body. It will be reunited in the final resurrection.

And, Mary has been reunited with her body-- we celebrate the feast of the Assumption on Monday.

That’s a huge demotion, going from pure spirit, the highest form of being, to a being that has a body.

Humans are body AND spirit. It is not a demotion. It is our nature to have both.

 

[Neofight]

Not as expressed here-- as “inhabiting” Jesus’s body.

Thanks for qualifying your remarks…without adding context the generalization of the comment was disturbing.

 

[Wesrock]

Personally, I believe when Jesus was born as a newborn human baby, it was very clear he was not a normal person to those witnessing it, I think he probably was able to speak right away and able to have complex discussions, as well as walking, standing, etc

Possible. I think otherwise, though. God could have incarnated himself in any way, but he chose to lower himself to a man. Could he have spoken? Sure. But in taking on our humanity, I believe he did so in regards to childhood development, too.

 

[mikekle]

But given that the Scriptures say nothing about our LORD being any kind of “superkid”, that is all conjecture.

ICXC NIKA

The bible also left out a big chunk of his childhood years, so who knows what happened during this time.

I wouldnt exactly say he was some kind of superkid, but he WAS ‘God’ so to speak as well as man, so I just think he was probably different from other babies, would you really need to teach God how to crawl and then to walk, or teach him the alphabet/ numbers, etc…no, he had all the knowledge about creation with him at all times, I think he was probably teaching Mary and Joseph during his younger years.