Questions about Convalidation

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sjmitch02

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I’m Episcopalian and my future husband is Roman Catholic. We are getting married in the Episcopalian church back in my hometown by an Episcopalian priest, but we opted to not have a Catholic priest present, which means we opted out of a Dispensation. I respect he’s Roman Catholic and do not expect him to convert, as he respects that I’m Episcopalian and that I do not want to convert to Catholicism.

Anyway, my future husband’s brother had to do a small ceremony in the Catholic church, since he got married at the zoo (so not in a house of God), so we actually assumed - and welcomed the idea - that we would also have to do a small ceremony in the Catholic church, since we were opting out of Dispensation. We wanted/liked that idea of a small ceremony in our Catholic church, because it’s honor/respecting that our faith are different, along with having a way for our family that couldn’t make it to attend such a special part of our lives.

Shortly after getting engaged, my mom started experiencing cognitive issues, which has made it that she cannot be invited to my Episcopalian wedding due to those issues, which is a long story in itself. However, since we were already planning on a small second ceremony after our Episcopalian ceremony when we got back home in the Catholic Church, we thought it was a great way to include my mom (she can no longer handle big crowds, and since this would be smaller, this is better/easier for her brain to understand/enjoy).

I briefly spoke with a Catholic deacon in regards to this matter today, and he informed me that it’s actually called a Convalidation, and it is not considered a “second ceremony”. He also informed me that we shouldn’t look at it as a second ceremony, or even call it that, because it would not be a “big wedding”, but we never intended this Convalidation to be big. That was the point: intimacy and respect. Even before the issues with my mom, we were wanting a small ceremony in the Catholic church afterwards.

So now I’m a little confused, because everything I’m seeing online from people who have actually done Convalidations, are saying it was a second ceremony… I just wanted to get more information on a Convalidation, and see if this is a good way to have our “second ceremony” to have our marriage validated in my future husband’s religion, while creating a way for my mom to be involved in “a wedding planning process”. I also wanted to know if I needed to do Pre-Cana in order to do Convalidation? Mainly, I wanted to know what information I need since I do not plan on converting, but would still love to do this ceremony out of respect for my faith with God, and my future husband’s faith with God.

Thanks in advance.
 
Speak to a knowledgable priest, preferably your husband’s pastor. He will be able to help you way more than anyone here on CAF.
 
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For a Dispensation From Form, you do not have to have a Catholic priest present.

Please, sit down and speak with your boyfriend’s pastor.
 
I had to have a convalidation before entering the Catholic Church. My husband and I were married in my Protestant Church, and at the time I had no interest in converting. He didn’t know that as a Catholic he needed a dispensation.

I did not have a dispensation, so I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that you can still get one even if you don’t have a Catholic priest at your Episcopal ceremony. You would just need to attend the pre Cana courses and meet with the priest prior to the ceremony (at least 6 months) and get permission.

For a convalidation you do still need to attend all of the normal marriage prep courses, and it can be a second ceremony or just a meeting with the priest and a witness. Ours was done during a mass, but we didn’t invite anyone to it. I was really sensitive about it and did NOT want a second ceremony, because I felt like we were already married, but really that’s what it is. The deacon may be thinking of a radical sanation as not being a second ceremony, but that’s not what you would have.

My advice would be to meet with a priest and try to get the dispensation before hand. It doesn’t really seem appropriate to plan for a convalidation, because during the time in between your Episcopal wedding and Catholic convalidation, your husband would not be considered married by the church. He would have to refrain from receiving the eucharist until your convalidation.
 
Yeah, this is all pretty convoluted. Who knows how it would all play out in an actual parish, with an actual pastor.

Dan

P.S. The point being, there is absolutely no one here who can tell you what will happen when you present this … scenario to the local priest.
 
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I don’t think that’s what it is now days… He will be required to promise to try to raise the children Catholic, and she will have to state that she is aware of his promise.
 
Yes, please speak with a Catholic pastor. You can receive a dispensation from form which would make your Protestant wedding valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church. You will, of course, be expected to do some marriage preparation.

We should not plan for multiple weddings and pretend that they are all equally valid. That could be disrespecting Christ’s sacraments. It is very possible that some ceremony could be worked out, in light of your mother’s medical issues.
 
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sjmitch02 said:
We are getting married in the Episcopalian church back in my hometown by an Episcopalian priest, but we opted to not have a Catholic priest present, which means we opted out of a Dispensation.
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I think you are laboring under a misconception. A dispensation from form means you can get married in your episcopal church, and there is no expectation or requirement for a Catholic priest to be present.
sjmitch02 said:
So now I’m a little confused, because everything I’m seeing online from people who have actually done Convalidations, are saying it was a second ceremony
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It wouldn’t be considered a second ceremony by the Catholic Church, because you aren’t considered married by the Catholic Church if you get married outside the church without the dispensation ( since your fiancé is a Catholic, and therefore required to follow catholic law)

This is actually the first ceremony, the only ceremony as far as the church is concerned.

Your fiancé can apply for a dispensation and you can be married validly in the Episcopal Church. And then there is no need for a ceremony in the catholic form.

I don’t understand why you would not get a dispensation in the first place. I think it must be the idea that you are misinformed about having to have a Catholic priest.
sjmitch02 said:
I also wanted to know if I needed to do Pre-Cana in order to do Convalidation?
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Yes.

But I would suggest you go through premarital preparation in the Catholic Church, and that your fiancé applies for dispensation from form, and then your Episcopal wedding is valid. It seems awfully circuitous to have to come back and then validate the marriage in the Catholic Church.
 
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As others have recommended, your questions are better directed to a priest (not a lay Catholic church staff member) so that your answer will be correct.

Sometimes details depends on other factors that a priest will ask you. We are not qualified.

I say this from experience being the Catholic party in a 30+ yr marriage to a protestant who is now Catholic. No one could help us save a holy, knowledgeable priest.
 
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I’m perfectly fine with our children being raised Catholic, and it was something we actually planned on doing anyway, so that’s not a problem for either of us 🙂
 
Thank you so much for your response.

We didn’t want to do a dispensation because we were wanting to do separate religious ceremonies in our separate churches, if possible. In addition, it made even more sense to us to try to do two separate ceremonies because my mother’s cognitive issues make it difficult for her to be apart of a large ceremony, so doing a smaller ceremony - like a Convalidation - is much easier for her brain to function/understand.

We initially thought we had to do the Convalidation because we were having a Catholic priest present, than we were informed that we could do a Dispensation (no Catholic priest required), which we initially were going to do a Dispensation, but then everything happened with my mother, so we went back to the original idea of a Convalidation in order to respect my mother being a part of this wedding.
 
I encourage you to talk to the Catholic priest about this. The ceremony in Catholic form isn’t a second ceremony from the Catholic point of view. It’s the only ceremony, from the Catholic point of view. It’s a new exchange of consent. It’s not merely for show. It is the wedding. It is the marriage.

Catholics are required to marry according to Catholic law. In the Catholic form or with a dispensation from form. Doing anything else is an invalid attempt at marriage.

Your EC wedding would not be valid, and your husband would not be able to receive the sacraments in the Church until he gets married in the Church.

I don’t think you are understanding that this isn’t just about the externals of the ceremonies. I don’t think you are understanding that this really isn’t something your husband can “choose”-- getting married invalidly. The choices are to marry in the Catholic form or get a dispensation from form. One ceremony. Valid marriage.

But of course it’s your future husband who is the Catholic. He is the one who is clearly not understanding, and that is a shame. He needs to talk to his priest who can help him understand marriage in the Church.

I am very sorry your mother is having cognitive issues. Have you considered a smaller wedding in your EC with the dispensation from form?
 
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Thank you again.

Yeah I understand it’s not a second ceremony, but the first ceremony according to Catholic law.

As for my mother, it’s a little more complicated than just doing a smaller wedding… It’s extremely complicated and a very delicate situation. The best way for people not involved in the situation to understand it is basically like my mom has episodes of dementia/Alzheimer, which causes her to have unfounded paranoia towards certain nuclear family members. It’s really a sad situation, but she’s my mother, and I want her to be a part of our wedding, so since we already wanted to do a Convalidation back home, this was a great way to involve her, since those other nuclear family members from my family were not going to be a part of this - literally we just wanted it to be my future husband’s parents, his grandmother since she cannot travel for our EC wedding, and us. We loved the intimacy, especially since it’s make a vow to God and each other, and we truly believe we cannot have a strong marriage without God and family.

We will just have to speak directly with the Pastor in my future husband’s church, because the Deacon at that church that we spoke to didn’t really give me a lot of helpful information, and he definitely didn’t seem to understand the delicacy that comes with my mother’s situation (he literally said “Ouch” when I said my mother wasn’t invited to my EC wedding, and when I kept trying explaining the situation, which is not an easy one to say aloud to someone, he said “let me repeat, “ouch”, I can’t believe you’re not inviting her”, which made me feel even worse than I already do in regards to not inviting her). Anyway, it sounds like speaking to the Pastor and not the Deacon is our best choice of action.

Nevertheless, I do have another question - and I’m not sure if it can be answered here, or if again, it’s a question better suited for the Pastor, but the Deacon mentioned Pre-Cana being a part of Convalidation, which is not something we really have in the Episcopal church (we have pre-martial counseling) so I don’t have a lot of understanding in regards to it, but I was under the impression that Pre-Cana is only done if I was converting to Catholicism…? Or is this something required even from a non-Catholic, not converting, to marry a Catholic?

Thank you again for the fabulous advice from everyone here 🙂
 
sjmitch02 said:
Anyway, it sounds like speaking to the Pastor and not the Deacon is our best choice of action.
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yes. Sorry the deacon gave that sort of response! Yikes. Talk to the pastor.
sjmitch02 said:
but the Deacon mentioned Pre-Cana being a part of Convalidation, which is not something we really have in the Episcopal church (we have pre-martial counseling) so I don’t have a lot of understanding in regards to it, but I was under the impression that Pre-Cana is only done if I was converting to Catholicism…?
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Premarital preparation in the Catholic Church consists of several things:
  1. premarital investigation of freedom to marry (usually takes the form of a questionnaire and paperwork documenting no prior marriages, impediments, etc) and is done with the priest or deacon preparing your for marriage. (canon 1066 and canon 1067). There is wide latitude left to the dioceses on how this is accomplished.
  2. premarital preparation. pastors are to assist in personal preparation for marriage (also called proximate preparation) to ensure the spouses understand the meaning of Christian marriage, etc. (Canon 1063). Again, wide latitude is given to the dioceses on how they implement this locally. Therefore it is called many things: “pre Cana”, “premarital preparation”, “engaged encounter”, “marriage prep”, etc. Premarital preparation is the best term, because “Pre Cana” is actually a specific program of marriage prep. So is Engaged Encounter.
Dioceses have many preparation methods that might include one or more components of: retreat weekends, to sponsor couples, to meeting with the pastor or deacon, to taking a FOCCUS assessment, to natural family planning class requirements, etc. It is going to vary widely from diocese to diocese, but they all have the common elements on helping prepare the coupe for marriage and helping the couple truly understand their obligations in the sacrament of marriage. In my home diocese you could choose between a sponsor couple and an Engaged Encounter retreat, plus natural family planning classes. In my husband’s diocese it was a one day class/retreat and meetings with the pastor.

Premarital preparation has nothing to do with converting to the Catholic faith. All couples must complete premarital preparation in whatever form it takes in their diocese. In some cases, the pastor may simply choose to meet with the couple.

Some dioceses and parishes have separate programs for those in irregular situations (married civilly but not validly in the Church) and those who are not yet married at all, and for those who have been married and have a decree of nullity or who were widows/widowers, etc. Others put all of the to-be-marrieds together regardless of individual situations.
sjmitch02 said:
Or is this something required even from a non-Catholic, not converting, to marry a Catholic?
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It is something required of every couple seeking marriage in the Church, whether both or only one of the parties is Catholic.
 
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Thank you so much for that breakdown. It really helped me 🙂 I just was always under the impression that premartial preparation and Pre-cana were different things in the Catholic Church. Thank you for helping me with that.

I’m going to email the Pastor directly and setup an in-person meeting with him and my fiance to discuss our options and the best course of action for our marriage and within our faiths.
 
Great! With Easter looming this week, it may take the pastor a while to get back to you. Try again after Easter if your email gets lost in the shuffle. This is the busiest week of the year for Catholic pastor, and probably Episcopal priests too.
 
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