Questions about Creation Accounts in Genesis 1-3

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim_Baur
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jim_Baur

Guest
I hope that this does not sound blasphemous, the two account of creation Genesis are rather different.

It seems to me that they are in figures of speech, parables or some form of comparison.

God does not walk in a Garden.

God does not work, move or change. Therefore He need not rest.

Are the first three chapters of Genesis literal?

If they are not literal but some form of comparison, what are the literal meanings?

Using the Bible to explain those chapters, as well as those chapters themselves, what is the literal meaning of God walking in the Garden?

Help!!!
 
I would suggest you read Scott Hahn’s study of Genesis. It is really helpful! God’s ‘rest’ is not what we would think of as rest. The day of rest was God’s solidifying His first covenant with us. For this reason, the Sabbath is a day for us to renew our covenant with Him. That is why we attend Mass, why we spend time with our family, why we have more contemplation… our day of rest is not to nap because we are tired. 🙂

Scott Hahn’s bible studies are free at www.salvationhistory.org. I can’t recall the title, but there is a great study on Genesis. It would be worth your time. It is SO good, and gave me such a different understanding of Genesis. 👍
 
Jim,

Prevailing Catholic teaching is (and has been) on the presumption that the first several chapters of Genesis (basically, everything before Abraham) are allegory. Individuals are free, however, to accept them literally without compromising Catholic belief.
 
I hope that this does not sound blasphemous, the two account of creation Genesis are rather different.

It seems to me that they are in figures of speech, parables or some form of comparison.

God does not walk in a Garden.

God does not work, move or change. Therefore He need not rest.

Are the first three chapters of Genesis literal?

If they are not literal but some form of comparison, what are the literal meanings?

Using the Bible to explain those chapters, as well as those chapters themselves, what is the literal meaning of God walking in the Garden?

Help!!!
Well, I see the “book” of Genesis as a theological, anti-mythical “book”.

Everybody asked themselves: Where did we come from? What are our origins? Who was the founder of our people? What is our destiny? Sometimes, these questions were formulated in situations of collective misfortune: What is the meaning of our failure and our suffering? What is the meaning of our hopeless death? Is there a Someone who can answer all the questions of mankind?
The people of Israel, in their internal reflection or in comparison with other peoples, religions and cultures, gather together these and several similar questions and give us their answers in this book. The Genesis is therefore the book of great questions and great answers, not only for the people of God, but for all mankind. Therefore it is said that this book is a kind of grand portico of the Bible’s Cathedral, because somehow it sums up the entirety of its beauty and content.
The Genesis also encompasses much of the history of Israel: from their “origins” to Jacob’s life in Egypt and subsequent formation of the twelve tribes. Intending to give us a historical, horizontal and dynamic conception of the Salvation History, this book makes the connection between “origins” of humanity (1.1) and the concrete history of the people of Israel. Therefore it presents - especially in the first 11 chapters, theology and catechesis in the form of history, or rather, stories and not historical facts in the scientific sense. We could sum up the content of the first 11 chapters of the Book of Genesis like this:

1.1 to 2.4: Creation of the universe and its inhabitants (according to the Priestly tradition: P).
2:4 b-3, 24: Formation of man and woman. Origin of sin (Yahwist tradition: J).
4.1 to 24 “Story of two brothers,” Cain and Abel. Offspring of the first.
4.25 to 5.32: Set and his descendants.
6.1 to 9.17: Corruption of humanity and the Flood (Anti-Establishment).
9.18 to 10.32: Re-creation, from Noah, of mankind.
11.1-9: Tower of Babel, mankind built a society without God.
11.10-32: Descendants of Shem to Abraham, and the promise of a new people.

The first and second creation narratives were written by two different people, the second source being older, and all these sources were later tied together.

Where did all the material that constitutes Genesis come from? The Hebrew people lived in a region where they had contact with many different peoples and civilizations. That led to an undeniable cultural exchange between them. The empires that dominated Mesopotamia and Egypt, as well as the civilizations of Phoenicia and Canaan are the literary and historical source of Genesis and the OT in general.
It is undeniable that in the first 11 chapters have abundant elements of these cultures, including allusions to certain myths of Sumer, Babylonia and Ugarit, especially the poems of Creation, Enuma Elish, and Atrahasis. The poem of Gilgamesh is also present in the story of the Flood. Often the authors of Genesis put themselves in open polemic against pagan myths, as in the case of 1.1 to 2.4.
Therefore, this book has varied literary genres:
The legend: the most common is to produce a report from a real fact, name of person or place. There are etiological legends that purport to explain the past, the “cause” of any phenomenon or event. A beautiful example of etiological legend is the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. There are still etiological legends to explain the origin of names of people (for Isaac, which means “laughing”, see 18.9 to 15, 21.2-7).
The genealogy: a list of names going back as far as possible to the past until the present, which attempts to justify the legal aspect of certain events, privileges of a social class or people (5.1 to 32, 10, 11.10 to 32). It intends to fill the huge gap between the creation and history of the Hebrew people.
The ancient sagas and stories of all kinds: the struggle for the wells, tribal wars, stories of families …
We can also find the mythical language. We know that the authors of Genesis strongly fought against pagan myths. But in order to explain the great problems of mankind, they used the mythical language and certain mythological elements that were in vogue, such as the creation of man from clay (2.7), the tree of life and the tree of knowledge (2 0.9 to 10, 3.1 to 6), the myth of the snake (Ch. 3). All of this material was tied together very slowly in a long period of time. First there were small clusters around a sanctuary, an event or a character, we call them traditions, and have been transmitted orally over many centuries. When the Hebrews learned how to write, these traditions are fixed in documents. The most commonly accepted theory is that after the Exile to Babylon (587-538), the Priestls tied together all the great traditions and existing documents. We can say that Genesis contains material collected between the V-XIII centuries. B.C.E.
 
‘And Jesus said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven…’

‘…And after the earthquake a fire, but God was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper…’

Why do you trouble yourself with such doubts and human arrogance. Isn’t God God? He can do handstands if He wants to.
This story/account is sublimely beautiful - pure poetry - just enjoy it as you once did when a little child. These renderings were for poor simple desert folk. not for Nobel prize-winners & nuclear scientists. It is one way of explaining what happened. Some prefer the Big Bang but I prefer Genesis. Read again & enjoy - too wondrous.
 
Even though it contains many historical elements, the Genesis is, after all, a theological work that essentially sought to give answers to the problems posed by the harrowing events of the Exile (sixth century): in the midst of darkness, God is the light of His people. In their despair of captivity, God will certainly renew the Alliance with His people.
Behind the “stories” written by their authors, the Genesis contains the major theological themes, not only of the Pentateuch but of all the Bible: God’s Covenant with mankind, man’s sin, the promise of the new covenant, the promise the Promised Land, God’s blessing ensuring the sustainability of His People, the Yahwist monotheism.
The Genesis was not composed to write history, but to say, in the form of stories, the ultimate truth: that God controls History. So it is essentially a book of catechesis and theology, even in the first 11 chapters, in which there is no historical or scientific concern, in the present sense. Therefore, the Pontifical Biblical Commission, on January 16th, 1948, said: "These literary forms do not match any of our classical categories and can not be judged in the light of Greco-Roman and modern literary genres. ’
All the major theological themes of Genesis were reread by Christians in the light of the author of the new creation, Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3). The great characters of Genesis - Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham and the other patriarchs - appear frequently throughout the New Testament to remind believers that there is only one history of salvation. Therefore, Revelation - the last book of the Bible - can not be understood without the first.
 
I hope that this does not sound blasphemous, the two account of creation Genesis are rather different.

It seems to me that they are in figures of speech, parables or some form of comparison.

God does not walk in a Garden.

God does not work, move or change. Therefore He need not rest.

Are the first three chapters of Genesis literal?

If they are not literal but some form of comparison, what are the literal meanings?

Using the Bible to explain those chapters, as well as those chapters themselves, what is the literal meaning of God walking in the Garden?

Help!!!
I would suggest you read the beginning of "The Catechism of the Catholic Church’’ as it deals with creation and Adam and Eve and their fall. The creation account in Genesis is both literal and not literal. It is literal where it says “In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth…” That God completed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh is not literal. The author of Genesis was more interested in theological teachings about God, God’s act of creating the world, God’s creation of man and woman, the beginning of mankind, the fall of the first man and woman, etc., then about giving an exact scientific account of creation.

“But Jesus answered them,“My Father is at work until now, so I am at work.” ( John 5:17). God can be said to work by creating the heavens and the earth and also by preserving the world in existence and by his providence.

God walking in the garden is a figure of speech by which I believe at least some of the fathers of the Church said it refered to the close communion and friendship that Adam and Eve had with God through sanctifying grace before they were banished from the garden because of their disobedience. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the sign of man’s familiarity with God is that God places them in the garden of Eden.
 
The Scriptures often uses metaphors to help every reader understand a story that would otherwise be too deep. Of the millions or billions who have ever read Genesis, the metaphoric language used at times brings a story that would be “over the heads” of many readers if it was written in the depths of its reality. Genesis is written in a manner that is easy reading compared to what it would be if it was written without metaphors to allow us to relate the spiritual things to corpreal things.
 
Well, I see the “book” of Genesis as a theological, anti-mythical “book”.

Where did all the material that constitutes Genesis come from? The Hebrew people lived in a region where they had contact with many different peoples and civilizations. That led to an undeniable cultural exchange between them. The empires that dominated Mesopotamia and Egypt, as well as the civilizations of Phoenicia and Canaan are the literary and historical source of Genesis and the OT in general.
It is undeniable that in the first 11 chapters have abundant elements of these cultures, including allusions to certain myths of Sumer, Babylonia and Ugarit, especially the poems of Creation, Enuma Elish, and Atrahasis. The poem of Gilgamesh is also present in the story of the Flood. Often the authors of Genesis put themselves in open polemic against pagan myths, as in the case of 1.1 to 2.4.
Therefore, this book has varied literary genres:
The legend: the most common is to produce a report from a real fact, name of person or place. There are etiological legends that purport to explain the past, the “cause” of any phenomenon or event. A beautiful example of etiological legend is the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. There are still etiological legends to explain the origin of names of people (for Isaac, which means “laughing”, see 18.9 to 15, 21.2-7).
The genealogy: a list of names going back as far as possible to the past until the present, which attempts to justify the legal aspect of certain events, privileges of a social class or people (5.1 to 32, 10, 11.10 to 32). It intends to fill the huge gap between the creation and history of the Hebrew people.
The ancient sagas and stories of all kinds: the struggle for the wells, tribal wars, stories of families …
We can also find the mythical language. We know that the authors of Genesis strongly fought against pagan myths. But in order to explain the great problems of mankind, they used the mythical language and certain mythological elements that were in vogue, such as the creation of man from clay (2.7), the tree of life and the tree of knowledge (2 0.9 to 10, 3.1 to 6), the myth of the snake (Ch. 3). All of this material was tied together very slowly in a long period of time. First there were small clusters around a sanctuary, an event or a character, we call them traditions, and have been transmitted orally over many centuries. When the Hebrews learned how to write, these traditions are fixed in documents. The most commonly accepted theory is that after the Exile to Babylon (587-538), the Priestls tied together all the great traditions and existing documents. We can say that Genesis contains material collected between the V-XIII centuries. B.C.E.
An interesting side note to this is that the authors of Genesis avoided using the words for Sun and Moon, (instead God put two great lights in the sky), since the Sun and Moon were actually gods in other religions, and the Jewish people only believed in One God. Likewise they didn’t us the word Saturday when God rested, since that is an allusion to the God Saturn, instead, using the Seventh Day God rested.
 
First, the entire Bible is inspired by God. As far as the Creation accounts, here is the explanation:

“Chapter 2 is a second creation account only in the sense that it gives a more detailed accounting, not a contradictory one. While chapter 1 provides a general description, chapter 2 is specific. Twofold accounts were common in ancient theories of creation (e.g., the Babylonian story of Atrahasis). The differences in the order of the creation events are due to the narratives’ respective purposes. The first gives a loosely chronological account, gathering creation events into a discernible pattern to show the symmetry of creation’s purpose. The second is topical, focusing on the sixth day by expanding on the creation and the relationship of the man and the woman. Genesis 2 presupposes chapter 1 and does not duplicate all the creation events.”

Next, we are required to believe the following:

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Original Sin. That is why Jesus had to die as a sacrifice for all.

Peace,
Ed
 
Ed

CCC 390, 337, and 338

Please forgive my lack of time and energy.

This figurative language, or symbolic language applies to at least the first three chapters of Genesis. Is that correct?

THANKS!!!
 
Ed

CCC 390, 337, and 338

Please forgive my lack of time and energy.

This figurative language, or symbolic language applies to at least the first three chapters of Genesis. Is that correct?

THANKS!!!
No, not exactly. The Fall is referred to as using figurative language but our first parents did commit Original Sin. CCC 337 tells us that the work God did is referred to symbolically as six days of Divine work, but God actually created. CCC 338 tells us that God did make all this.

So, Genesis tells us that God made all things - literally - out of nothing. The false debate concerns our first parents who are often brushed off as symbolic or representative of a group. They were man and woman as God intended them to be, and the parents of all alive today.

Peace,
Ed
 
If I understood correctly, the six or seven days are symbolic.

Then is the literal meaning is derived from the symbols?

I want to thank you for your patience.

THANKS!!!

Blessings
 
Ed

Are there any other passages in the Catechism that say similar points, that is, the symbolic and figurative language?

Thanks!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top