Questions about creation

[fish90]

Hello,

I know that women were created equal to men under God. My first question though arises from the second creation story. With the most reverence, does the fact that God created woman as a suitable partner display some hidden message? I find that this implies God did not know man wanted a woman. I know this idea has to be wrong because God is all-knowing.

Also, I was at a Protestant youth camp and they taught that the Fall brought every evil into the world including pesky happenings like leeches, mosquitoes and sunburn. Is it correct to say that the Fall brought every kind of annoyance, pain and suffering to the world?

God Bless

 

[SimonArizona]

First realize that the truth of Genesis is coming to us in a lot of poetic language. God saw that it was not good for man to be alone. The message here is that, it is not good for someone to exist without an equal to know and love. Just as it would not be good for God to be solitary in all existence with no equal, no one who could receive and return His magnitude of infinite love, or infinite knowledge about Him, so too, it is not good for man, who is made in his image to exist in the world with no equal to know and love. Like a man stuck on a desert island with only a dog. It’s not good for man not to have an equal.

At last! Bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh!

 

[NHInsider]

Hello,

I know that women were created equal to men under God. My first question though arises from the second creation story. With the most reverence, does the fact that God created woman as a suitable partner display some hidden message? I find that this implies God did not know man wanted a woman. I know this idea has to be wrong because God is all-knowing.

I don’t think we can draw implications about what God knew or didn’t know from the story, which is told in human terms for a human audience. I think it does speak to the essential difference in the relationship between a man and a woman as compared with the relationships a man has with his cattle, his flocks or even his dog - which would have been quite counter-cultural in that time and place (by which I mean the ancient Near East, not the Garden of Eden at the time of Creation) and in fact is still counter-cultural in some societies today. If you take the two creation accounts side by side you find that God presented the man with a “help-meet” or suitable companion, and that He created human beings “in His image, male and female.” Hence the equality before God which you “know” but which is not and has not been a common belief, even among Christians.

To answer your statement from another p.o.v., however, how would the man desire a woman if the woman had not yet been created?

Also, I was at a Protestant youth camp and they taught that the Fall brought every evil into the world including pesky happenings like leeches, mosquitoes and sunburn. Is it correct to say that the Fall brought every kind of annoyance, pain and suffering to the world?

Yes, sort-of. Satan’s rebellion against God is played out here in the world over which he has dominion. Pain and suffering are the result of evil entering the world. The Fall made us subject to those effects. All of creation groans, awaiting redemption (Romans 8) and in the New Earth there will be no suffering (Revelation 21).

The way I think about this is that since God is all-good, and pronounced all of creation good, anything in creation that is less-than-good has been corrupted by evil. There are other conceptualizations, such as the idea that things like mosquitos and sunburn are not actually evil (mosquito larvae are an important food source for fish, for example) but that our experiences of them are negative because of sin.

 

[SimonArizona]

There are other conceptualizations, such as the idea that things like mosquitos and sunburn are not actually evil (mosquito larvae are an important food source for fish, for example) but that our experiences of them are negative because of sin.

good insight

how would the man desire a woman if the woman had not yet been created?

Man desired his complimentary because the heart of man longs for a complimentary. The missing piece, mans other half. This is how God made the whole human race, if God made us perfectly whole we wouldn’t need each other and we’d all be completely self-sufficient and not interwoven into each other as one. All of creation is dependant upon each other. Woman fits man perfectly (originally).For example; Man is hard, woman is soft. Man desires soft, woman desires hard. (again originally i.e. before fall) Man and woman fit each other perfectly, and the outward sex, is a physical manifestation of a deeper reality occuring spiritually.

 

[fish90]

First realize that the truth of Genesis is coming to us in a lot of poetic language. God saw that it was not good for man to be alone. The message here is that, it is not good for someone to exist without an equal to know and love. Just as it would not be good for God to be solitary in all existence with no equal, no one who could receive and return His magnitude of infinite love, or infinite knowledge about Him, so too, it is not good for man, who is made in his image to exist in the world with no equal to know and love. Like a man stuck on a desert island with only a dog. It’s not good for man not to have an equal.

At last! Bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh!

Is Jesus that person that you are talking about as being God’s equal?

Is celibacy possible now because Jesus entered the world and humanity finds Him to be his/her companion?

God Bless

 

[NHInsider]

Is Jesus that person that you are talking about as being God’s equal?

Is celibacy possible now because Jesus entered the world and humanity finds Him to be his/her companion?

God Bless

God is not alone because God is Triune.

Celibacy is a red herring - it is certainly possible to have intimacy and companionship that is not sexual. But perhaps I misunderstand you?

 

[fish90]

God is not alone because God is Triune.

Celibacy is a red herring - it is certainly possible to have intimacy and companionship that is not sexual. But perhaps I misunderstand you?

I was responding to this “Just as it would not be good for God to be solitary in all existence with no equal, no one who could receive and return His magnitude of infinite love, or infinite knowledge about Him, so too, it is not good for man, who is made in his image to exist in the world with no equal to know and love.” I thought the poster was talking about Jesus and I was curious if I was correct to think so.

What do you mean by red herring?

God Bless

 

[PeterK]

Fish,
Just some thoughts on your questions.
With the most reverence, does the fact that God created woman as a suitable partner display some hidden message?
I don’t think so. If there is a ‘hidden’ message it would not necessarily be a hidden message but a message of a different character, a theological message.

Is it correct to say that the Fall brought every kind of annoyance, pain and suffering to the world?
Pope John Paul II said the fall is primarily a privation, that is man fell from grace. My personal opinion, without taking the narrative too literally, is that all the ‘evil’ things already existed - certainly the serpent did. Man, with his pre-fall enlightened intellect, understood all these things in regard to their purpose and meaning in God’s plan. The fall removed this perfect apprehension of created reality. Pain and thorns existed before the fall but were not then seen as bad because the intellectual light from the pre-fall relationship man had with God was not darkened.

To put it another way - original sin is not so much a stain as it is a hole, an emptiness in our being.

Also, back to the partner question, I read a rabbi once speculate the woman was created superior to the man, as the man was created from dirt and the woman created from ‘man-stuff’ - i.e. something better than dirt.
(Although, I know some women who would claim men are lower than dirt.)

Interesting questions.
Hope this helped.
PeterK

 

[NHInsider]

I was responding to this “Just as it would not be good for God to be solitary in all existence with no equal, no one who could receive and return His magnitude of infinite love, or infinite knowledge about Him, so too, it is not good for man, who is made in his image to exist in the world with no equal to know and love.” I thought the poster was talking about Jesus and I was curious if I was correct to think so.

What do you mean by red herring?

God Bless

Hi -
A “red herring” something introduced as a distraction to set the reader/viewer on the wrong track (in a mystery) (or a dog on the wrong track in a search)

you had said

Is celibacy possible now because Jesus entered the world and humanity finds Him to be his/her companion?

I didn’t think celibacy had anything to do with the discussion, and wasn’t sure if you were trying to push the conversation into the direction of an argument about priestly celibacy.

I seem to be over-sensitive to “trap” questions this week . . . I apologize.