Questions about demons?

[friardchips]

To see if they exist or not.

Demons exist.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

To see if they exist or not. I am betting that they don’t exist. But if they do, and we all have a guardian angel, it would be a lot of fun to see them conduct a good fight. What odds would a bookie give for each side? I think that the demon would win, because God does not interfere in the Earthly affairs.

Funny that an atheist would believe they had a guardian angel. Do tell!

 

[Pallas_Athene]

You have the incorrect word.

It was you, who used this word. Why blame me?

‘Permitted’ doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Really? Permitted means: “allowed to happen”.

Darkness is aggressive and invasive. The effect is that it tempts and weakens us to sin.

Well, then, why is it so gun-shy? He could scare me out of my wits - supposedly, and yet it is reluctant to try. Though I doubt it. I am not so easy to scare.

Face the light.

I would gladly do it, if I could see it.

Demons exist.

Have you ever seen one? Do you know anyone who has ever met one? I asked: is there a good, tried and tested evocation, which would grab one of those horned and hoofed demons to come out and say: “Booo!”? By the way, the horned and hoofed beasts sound like a “goat”, and I am not particularly scared of goats. Are you?

 

[zamyrabyrd]

… I am betting that they don’t exist. But if they do, and we all have a guardian angel, it would be a lot of fun to see them conduct a good fight. What odds would a bookie give for each side? I think that the demon would win, because God does not interfere in the Earthly affairs.

Other religions that acknowledge a moral law in the universe like Buddhism hold that there is a reward for righteousness and that hungry ghosts roam without satisfaction. Those who do not have religion most often have a residual, but primitive conception of good and evil on the pragmatic level, but not on the universal level. That is why the Cross as described by Paul seemed stupidity to the Greeks. The Cross however elevated suffering so that it did become a value. However, suffering of even the smallest creatures was recognized by Buddha as well.

Just like it is “evil” to express your love toward someone in a physical manner while making conception impossible. What a strange definition of “evil”.

Again the poor choice of words in the English language to describe the various forms of “love” is at the root of confusing physical coupling with it. Eros was considered madness by the Greeks. Being driven by whatever physical desires is considered immoral by Buddhism or at least leads to immorality.

Control raises us above the animals but it is a choice. Hence the confusion of where God comes in. We are permitted to choose whether we want to “swing on a star, carry moonbeams home is a jar and be better off than we are, or would rather be a pig”. It is no surprise that the current package of anti-values includes a denial of evil and an exaltation of giving into one’s urges.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

The light is meek and humble. The effects are that it guides and strengthens us in virtue.
Darkness is aggressive and invasive. The effect is that it tempts and weakens us to sin.
Face the light.

Agree completely. By the way are you the ChipMonk? I saw a joke about that some time ago.

 

[friardchips]

It was you, who used this word. Why blame me?

Good morning. I’m not blaming. Just trying to be on same page.

Really? Permitted means: “allowed to happen”.

He permits freewill. He doesn’t permit sin and wrongful action.

Well, then, why is it so gun-shy? He could scare me out of my wits - supposedly, and yet it is reluctant to try. Though I doubt it. I am not so easy to scare.

Not sure what to say to this apart from if you don’t experience darkness then continue not to look for it.

I would gladly do it, if I could see it.

The light is within. Already there. Blind trust.

Have you ever seen one? Do you know anyone who has ever met one? I asked: is there a good, tried and tested evocation, which would grab one of those horned and hoofed demons to come out and say: “Booo!”? By the way, the horned and hoofed beasts sound like a “goat”, and I am not particularly scared of goats. Are you?

Many Catholics have literally experienced demons throughout the centuries.

But why look for them. If you are not experiencing them in a literal way then be happy and don’t wish it upon yourself that you were.

 

[friardchips]

By the way, the horned and hoofed beasts sound like a “goat”, and I am not particularly scared of goats. Are you?

Goats can become scary if we stare it them for too long!!

 

[friardchips]

Agree completely. By the way are you the ChipMonk? I saw a joke about that some time ago.

…name rings a bell but only thanks to Alvin.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

He permits freewill. He doesn’t permit sin and wrongful action.

SSDD. No difference.

Not sure what to say to this apart from if you don’t experience darkness then continue not to look for it.

I don’t see that “light” you speak of either. Yet, I am looking for it - in vain. So I am also looking for the dark, which would INDIRECTLY show that there is “light side”

The light is within. Already there. Blind trust.

I do not dare to express my thoughts about “blind trust” (being intimidated by the wrath which would surely follow for not being “charitable”), except pointing out that I don’t have it, and would never have it.

Many Catholics have literally experienced demons throughout the centuries.

Many others also CLAIMED that they experienced them. Neither ones have any credibility. Where is the proof?

But why look for them. If you are not experiencing them in a literal way then be happy and don’t wish it upon yourself that you were.

As I said, it would be an INDIRECT proof for the existence of the “other side”. Not as good as the direct proof would be, but the light side simply refuses to show up, no matter how hard you pray for it… I am flexible. If you have an evocation for either the light side, or the dark side, I would gladly try them both.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

…name rings a bell but only thanks to Alvin.

This might have been the joke:
Lost on a rainy night, a nun stumbles across a monastery and requests shelter there.
Fortunately, she’s just in time for dinner and was treated to the best fish and chips she’s ever had.
After dinner, she goes into the kitchen to thank the chefs.
She is met by two brothers, Hello, I’m Brother Michael, and this is Brother Charles.
I’m very pleased to meet you. I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful dinner. The fish and chips were the best I’ve ever tasted. Out of curiosity, who cooked what?
Brother Charles replied, Well, I’m the fish friar.
She turns the other brother and says, Then you must be…?
Yes, I’m afraid I’m the chip monk.

To wit, judging by the usual behavior of dictators, evil is notoriously unfunny. There is no self-depreciating but gentle humor that we seemed to have lost as a culture. Instead, we have people tripping over themselves so as not to offend anyone whose skins are notoriously thin.

 

[friardchips]

This might have been the joke:
Lost on a rainy night, a nun stumbles across a monastery and requests shelter there.
Fortunately, she’s just in time for dinner and was treated to the best fish and chips she’s ever had.
After dinner, she goes into the kitchen to thank the chefs.
She is met by two brothers, Hello, I’m Brother Michael, and this is Brother Charles.
I’m very pleased to meet you. I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful dinner. The fish and chips were the best I’ve ever tasted. Out of curiosity, who cooked what?
Brother Charles replied, Well, I’m the fish friar.
She turns the other brother and says, Then you must be…?
Yes, I’m afraid I’m the chip monk.

I have heard this. I read it first on a site where priests were discussing jokes. Can’t remember which website. But all the jokes were funny. They were comparing the charism characteristics of different Orders. I think I saw this joke first up on there. Thanks for the laughs!

To wit, judging by the usual behavior of dictators, evil is notoriously unfunny. There is no self-depreciating but gentle humor that we seemed to have lost as a culture. Instead, we have people tripping over themselves so as not to offend anyone whose skins are notoriously thin.

Yes, but the above example is pretty harmless. Cultural norms are often contradictory.

 

[friardchips]

SSDD. No difference.

Yes, there is. But if we carry on like this then it is not productive so might as well leave it there.

I don’t see that “light” you speak of either. Yet, I am looking for it - in vain. So I am also looking for the dark, which would INDIRECTLY show that there is “light side”

Tempting the Spirit is never a good idea. Do good and pray and you’ll see the light. But seeing is not in your time to decide. This happens via grace. “Grace builds upon nature”.

I do not dare to express my thoughts about “blind trust” (being intimidated by the wrath which would surely follow for not being “charitable”), except pointing out that I don’t have it, and would never have it.

Never say never.

Many others also CLAIMED that they experienced them. Neither ones have any credibility. Where is the proof?

All around us. In the consequences.

As I said, it would be an INDIRECT proof for the existence of the “other side”. Not as good as the direct proof would be, but the light side simply refuses to show up, no matter how hard you pray for it… I am flexible. If you have an evocation for either the light side, or the dark side, I would gladly try them both.

Evil attacks the soul. Up close and personal.

Don’t turn to the darkside. Be a Jedi.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Yes, there is. But if we carry on like this then it is not productive so might as well leave it there.

Yes, there is a major difference between us. When I see two people, one who is about to rape and torture someone, and the other one who could step in and prevent it, but does nothing, I consider both of them equally evil. And I see no excuse for the inaction. There are all sorts of explanations offered to whitewash the inaction, and none of them have even an iota of convincing value.

Tempting the Spirit is never a good idea.

What happens to those who do?

All around us. In the consequences.

I am interested in the source, not what you call “consequences”.

Evil attacks the soul. Up close and personal.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot detect a “soul”.

Don’t turn to the darkside. Be a Jedi.

In order to make a choice, I need proof that there are actually two sides to choose from.

 

[friardchips]

Yes, there is a major difference between us. When I see two people, one who is about to rape and torture someone, and the other one who could step in and prevent it, but does nothing, I consider both of them equally evil. And I see no excuse for the inaction. There are all sorts of explanations offered to whitewash the inaction, and none of them have even an iota of convincing value.

Hi. ‘Just defense’ I would call this. Or a ‘good cause’.To step in. Those who do nothing are complicit to varying degrees. This does not mean that the Creator ‘permits’ evil.

What happens to those who do?

Not for me to say.

I am interested in the source, not what you call “consequences”.

There are plenty of sources out there. It doesn’t hurt to find out who the enemy is. Just don’t go looking for trouble. I would be in the wrong to suggest anything different.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot detect a “soul”.

You could try meditation. ‘Good’ meditation.

In order to make a choice, I need proof that there are actually two sides to choose from.

Evil, tends to aim itself at individuals, which then takes root in tribes. Things tend to roller-coaster. But outside of the individual’s own person and possible awarness to demonic influence, evil is recognised in amongst the consequences. Goodness, however, is easier to spot, because one only has to look at beauty and truth. Evil tends to surface in selfishness. Goodness is thinking of the good of the other. Nature, for example, though severe, tends to happen for a reason in harmony with other things in nature for life to keep going (sustaining). Good can be seen in the productive processes in nature but also humanity where life is about preservation and improving people’s living conditions. Good is not that difficult to be seen when looked for. The problem is that the media is so upon us all the time that all the bad things in the world get reported on without the little roses in amongst the thorns where good is to be seen - up close and personal too.

Darkness vs light. Though darkness is only a perversion of light which is why we start with the light and try not to become distorted along the way. So if you find evil easy to turn away from then great and don’t look back.

To be more aware of darkness one has to come close to the light. In the light the darkness becomes easier to see. But this is not a reason to search for light. The reason is because light brings happiness to the soul. As in nature, light is good for us. Begin with the (true) notion that though flawed (all of us) you were made to be good.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Hi. ‘Just defense’ I would call this. Or a ‘good cause’.To step in. Those who do nothing are complicit to varying degrees. This does not mean that the Creator ‘permits’ evil.

This is why the discussion is fruitless. If the other person does not step in, then he “permits” the act to happen. The trouble is that you wish to establish two different yardsticks to measure human indifference and divine indifference. I suggest you to read the “Tale of the Twelve Officers” here: infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/five.html

Not for me to say.

But you said that one should not tempt he “spirit”. If you have no idea what happens to those who DO tempt it, then your advice was unfounded. Right?

There are plenty of sources out there. It doesn’t hurt to find out who the enemy is. Just don’t go looking for trouble. I would be in the wrong to suggest anything different.

One man’s “trouble” another one’s challenge. Of course I appreciate your concern, but I would have preferred if you came clean and said: “there is no reliable evocation which would summon either an angel or a demon. It is all wishful, unsubstantiated thinking”. Pure, blind faith… Since you offered “blind trust”, you should not be upset by mentioning “blind faith”… and yes, either one of these is impossible for me.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . I would have preferred if you came clean and said: “there is no reliable evocation which would summon either an angel or a demon. It is all wishful, unsubstantiated thinking”. Pure, blind faith… Since you offered “blind trust”, you should not be upset by mentioning “blind faith”… and yes, either one of these is impossible for me.

While it is appreciated to be told exactly what a person wants to hear, to comply does not constitute “coming clean”; quite the converse.
FYI: you have blind trust and blind faith in your own views, which most here do not share.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

But you said that one should not tempt he “spirit”. If you have no idea what happens to those who DO tempt it, then your advice was unfounded. Right?

Ever read “Faust”? There’s a resemblance between him and you!

 

[zamyrabyrd]

This is why the discussion is fruitless. If the other person does not step in, then he “permits” the act to happen. The trouble is that you wish to establish two different yardsticks to measure human indifference and divine indifference…
But you said that one should not tempt he “spirit”. If you have no idea what happens to those who DO tempt it, then your advice was unfounded. Right?

One man’s “trouble” another one’s challenge. Of course I appreciate your concern, but I would have preferred if you came clean and said: “there is no reliable evocation which would summon either an angel or a demon. It is all wishful, unsubstantiated thinking”. Pure, blind faith… Since you offered “blind trust”, you should not be upset by mentioning “blind faith”… and yes, either one of these is impossible for me.

A discussion is fruitless if one party keeps going on with, “Show me” preferably in 3D, signed by a notary. The same argument crops up with those who say, “Well, go ahead and prove the Bible”.

No one is going to win an argument with the kind of proof that is being asked for, and as a matter of fact, just about everything in history or even science for that matter is ultimately unprovable and hearsay by such a rigorous standard.

Is light a particle or a wave? Well, go ahead and prove it. It can’t be pinned down but its effects can be registered. That is the explanation given to you that “By their fruits ye shall know them.”.

You can choose not to believe that Saul did conjure up a spirit although this is forbidden in Judaism despite the prohibition in Leviticus. This is commonly referred to as Avodah Zarah, literally “strange work” that is also forbidden to Christians. There are some people who have clairvoyant talents who would not deny the existence of spirits. Hopefully they use their abilities for good.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Ever read “Faust”? There’s a resemblance between him and you!

I really believe that the “Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Wisdom”. I don’t tempt things I don’t know about. I also trust the wisdom of those who have gone before on the path and can warn about the dangers like leaving a road map for others to follow.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I really believe that the “Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Wisdom”. I don’t tempt things I don’t know about. I also trust the wisdom of those who have gone before on the path and can warn about the dangers like leaving a road map for others to follow.

I totally agree with you. There are definitely evil spirits out there working in concert with Satan. To play around with them would be folly, and very dangerous. I like to use the forces of good to combat evil - prayer for intercession from all the saints, and of course, putting my entire trust in God, who is much stronger than the evil one.