Questions about different types of TLM (EF) Churches

[MissRose73]

I looked at several different links for TLM ( Latin Mass / EF ) to locate some closer to my area. Some list that they are “independent”, what does that mean? One of the “independent” ones list things like very strict dress codes, mandatory head covering for females, and only certain people are eligible to receive the sacraments including the Eucharist at Mass.

SSPX churches, is it permissible to attend a TLM there and receive Communion if you are Catholic and in a state of grace?

I know there are other abbreviations listed that I cannot recall off hand at this time, which ones are okay to attend TLM (Extraordinary Form) and which are not?

I know diocesan listed ones are not an issue, and its a big bonus when you can find them on a diocese’s website. The one I attended was on a diocese’s website as part of all parish listings. The priest that answered my inquiries was welcoming in person as he was in my initial email to him a few weeks prior to my first Extraordinary Form Mass.

I would like to try to attend a TLM a bit often if possible as it helps me understand more things when going to the Ordinary Form I have been attended all my life, and it helps me be more reverent at OF.

 

[Domnall]

Hi Miss Rose,

Lets see if we can’t answer a couple of your questions. “Independent” Catholic churches refer to ones lead by priests that are not under the jurisdiction of the diocese in which they inhabit. Usually, this doesn’t include the SSPX because they list SSPX on their sites instead.

Under extremely limited circumstances are you are allowed to visit one of these churches. Some of the priests have valid holy orders and if in danger of death, you can receive absolution from them, even if they haven’t been given facilities by the diocesan bishop.
–There is no other reason to attend these churches.

As for the SSPX, the same rule applies for absolution from their priests. However, because they have illicit, but valid holy orders you many not receive the other sacraments from their churches and absolution only in danger of death and if no other priest is around.

The societies that you can and should support include the Priestly Society of St. Peter (FSSP) or the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priests (ICKSP) or the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius (in the Chicago area.)

I hope this answered your question. God bless!

 

[CB_Catholic]

I looked at several different links for TLM ( Latin Mass / EF ) to locate some closer to my area. Some list that they are “independent”, what does that mean? One of the “independent” ones list things like very strict dress codes, mandatory head covering for females, and only certain people are eligible to receive the sacraments including the Eucharist at Mass.

SSPX churches, is it permissible to attend a TLM there and receive Communion if you are Catholic and in a state of grace?

I know there are other abbreviations listed that I cannot recall off hand at this time, which ones are okay to attend TLM (Extraordinary Form) and which are not?

I know diocesan listed ones are not an issue, and its a big bonus when you can find them on a diocese’s website. The one I attended was on a diocese’s website as part of all parish listings. The priest that answered my inquiries was welcoming in person as he was in my initial email to him a few weeks prior to my first Extraordinary Form Mass.

I would like to try to attend a TLM a bit often if possible as it helps me understand more things when going to the Ordinary Form I have been attended all my life, and it helps me be more reverent at OF.

Independent means they are not in communion with Rome. Stick with a parish that operates under the Diocese (such as the FSSP) or a religious order that is in communion with Rome if they happen to offer the EF publicly, or a regular diocesen parish that offers the EF, if you can find one.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Independent means they are not in communion with Rome. Stick with a parish that operates under the Diocese (such as the FSSP) or a religious order that is in communion with Rome if they happen to offer the EF publicly, or a regular diocesen parish that offers the EF, if you can find one.

(1) Any Priest or Parish not in communion with the Diocese and Vatican are not proper, valid Catholic. Catholics should not attend, support them. (2) The “ExtraOrdinary Form” of Mass is confusing name. It means the Tridentine Latin Mass, which requires Kneeling Communion On Tongue Only, no “Amen” response, and Priest formally trained in the complex Liturgy and Practise. One should contact the Diocese for which Parishes have the Tridentine (aka extraordinary form) Mass. We have Tridentine Mas every Sunday, with portable Kneelers.

 

[Chatter163]

Hi Miss Rose,

Lets see if we can’t answer a couple of your questions. “Independent” Catholic churches refer to ones lead by priests that are not under the jurisdiction of the diocese in which they inhabit. Usually, this doesn’t include the SSPX because they list SSPX on their sites instead.

Under extremely limited circumstances are you are allowed to visit one of these churches. Some of the priests have valid holy orders and if in danger of death, you can receive absolution from them, even if they haven’t been given facilities by the diocesan bishop.
–There is no other reason to attend these churches.

As for the SSPX, the same rule applies for absolution from their priests. However, because they have illicit, but valid holy orders you many not receive the other sacraments from their churches and absolution only in danger of death and if no other priest is around.

The societies that you can and should support include the Priestly Society of St. Peter (FSSP) or the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priests (ICKSP) or the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius (in the Chicago area.)

I hope this answered your question. God bless!

I second the above. (I do point out for clarity, though, that the initials of the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest are ICRSS.)

 

[MissRose73]

Thank you for your responses

I also got some good details via email from a nearby diocese regarding EF Masses as my local diocese is not offering any or if they are, I have not found them out yet.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

…only certain people are eligible to receive the sacraments including the Eucharist at Mass.
QUOTE]

Keep in mind this is always the case for the Holy Eucharist in parishes in full Communion with the Church.

Only Catholics in a state of Grace may recieve Communion, others may only recieve in very rare circumstances. Some Eastern Orthodox may recieve in normal circumstances since they have valid Sacraments just as the Catholic Church does.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

MissRose73;8074216:

…only certain people are eligible to receive the sacraments including the Eucharist at Mass.
QUOTE]

Keep in mind this is always the case for the Holy Eucharist in parishes in full Communion with the Church.

Only Catholics in a state of Grace may recieve Communion, others may only recieve in very rare circumstances. Some Eastern Orthodox may recieve in normal circumstances since they have valid Sacraments just as the Catholic Church does.

Catholics can also attend, receive Communion in 22 Eastern Orthodox Sects in Communion with the Vatican and Pope. Their Divine Liturgy counts as Attending Mass; Their consecrated Bread/Wine Are Valid communion for us too. You can Search which Eastern Orthodox Churches Are in Communion with the Vatican. We can only attend, Not Participate the other Orhodox Churches yet, until they come In Communion with The Vatican, thought to be not far in the future. I’ve Attended Both, Properly.

 

[Corki]

(1) Any Priest or Parish not in communion with the Diocese and Vatican are not proper, valid Catholic. Catholics should not attend, support them.

They are validly Catholic but not licitly ministering. Catholics can, under limited conditions according to the Vatican, attend but actively supporting them is problematic as you would be supporting, though indirectly, their continued separation from the Church.

(2) The “ExtraOrdinary Form” of Mass is confusing name. It means the Tridentine Latin Mass, which requires Kneeling Communion On Tongue Only, no “Amen” response, and Priest formally trained in the complex Liturgy and Practise.

Sorry if the name confuses you but that’s the term the Church has assigned to Masses being said according to the Missal of 1962.

One should contact the Diocese for which Parishes have the Tridentine (aka extraordinary form) Mass. We have Tridentine Mas every Sunday, with portable Kneelers

This is a good suggestion. In our diocese, the EF Masses are not easily found on the diocisan website but you can sometimes get the information by calling the Chancery.

 

[CB_Catholic]

FromTheAshes777;8101067:

Catholics can also attend, receive Communion in 22 Eastern Orthodox Sects in Communion with the Vatican and Pope. Their Divine Liturgy counts as Attending Mass; Their consecrated Bread/Wine Are Valid communion for us too. You can Search which Eastern Orthodox Churches Are in Communion with the Vatican. We can only attend, Not Participate the other Orhodox Churches yet, until they come In Communion with The Vatican, thought to be not far in the future. I’ve Attended Both, Properly.

These are Eastern Catholics, not Eastern Orthodox. We are not in communion with Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Paxvobis]

I looked at several different links for TLM ( Latin Mass / EF ) to locate some closer to my area. Some list that they are “independent”, what does that mean? One of the “independent” ones list things like very strict dress codes, mandatory head covering for females, and only certain people are eligible to receive the sacraments including the Eucharist at Mass.

Personally, I would avoid called ‘Independent’ churches which offers the TLM. They defiantly don’t accept Vatican II and may preach heresies such as feeneyism.

SSPX churches, is it permissible to attend a TLM there and receive Communion if you are Catholic and in a state of grace?

The way I understand it, SSPX Masses are illicit but valid. We are discouraged from going there, but can go every once in a while to satisfy our Sunday Obligation. They are not heretics, merely disobedient and outside the diocesan structures. However, we should not receive Holy Communion at an SSPX Chapel.

I know there are other abbreviations listed that I cannot recall off hand at this time, which ones are okay to attend TLM (Extraordinary Form) and which are not?

I know diocesan listed ones are not an issue, and its a big bonus when you can find them on a diocese’s website. The one I attended was on a diocese’s website as part of all parish listings. The priest that answered my inquiries was welcoming in person as he was in my initial email to him a few weeks prior to my first Extraordinary Form Mass.

Good: FSSP, ICK.
Bad: SSPV, Independent Churches.

I would like to try to attend a TLM a bit often if possible as it helps me understand more things when going to the Ordinary Form I have been attended all my life, and it helps me be more reverent at OF.

Good!

 

[AntalKalnoky]

AntalKalnoky;8101689:

These are Eastern Catholics, not Eastern Orthodox. We are not in communion with Eastern Orthodox.

Our Eastern Brothers in Union with the Vatican Are fully Orthodox in their Histotric Liturgy and Practise, thus are Properly called Eastern Orthodox. They have Divine Liturgy form of The Mass, 3 Sacraments including Communion at Baptism, etc., etc: Fully Orthodox Practise. Eastern denotes them formally as In Union with the Vatican and Holy Father. Their Metropolitans Are part of the Magesterium and College of Cardinals.

 

[Peter_J]

These are Eastern Catholics, not Eastern Orthodox. We are not in communion with Eastern Orthodox.

Agreed. I doubt you could even find a reference to “22 Eastern Orthodox Sects in Communion with the Vatican and Pope” in any publication, not counting the internet.

 

[Peter_J]

We can only attend, Not Participate the other Orhodox Churches yet, until they come In Communion with The Vatican, ** thought to be not far in the future**.

Interesting, but I guess the question is: thought by whom?

 

[AntalKalnoky]

[SIGN]Excellent Question! [/SIGN]

Interesting, but I guess the question is: thought by whom?

By the 2 Principal Participants at the last Ravenna (Italy) Conference on reuniting Orthodox and Roman Catholic: at the Key report at Catholic University Seminar, over a year ago. The Orthodox Metropolitan (The Theology department head at Cambridge University) reported in great wisdom humor: all principal issues had been previously resolved, including the Orthodox Metropolitans Agreeing in Writing that ‘The Bishop Of Rome’ (The Pope) is The Leader. The humerous part was that the key issue now is the Orthodox Metropoliltans insistance They be consulted first, before The College of Cardinals about major pending issues, if I understood correctly. It was pointed out that Both the Russian Orthodox Prelate and the Pope are German, making communication culturally easier. Such International Conferenes on Unity take years to set up; but Both Churches agree The Need of Our Church is Now the Spread of Secularism, rejection of religion in Europe, etc. :bowdown2:

• The Great Humor was in the Command Continuing presentation by The Metropitan on one “problem” : Catholic Holy Water was inadvertantly used in preparing Orthodox Bread for Communion; independent spontantaneous Orthodox Deacon taste tests before consecration determined the Catholic Holy water Orthodox Bread tasted very much the same and just as Orthodox taste. :dancing:
  We already have key Precedent in the Vatican accepting 22 Eastern (Orthodox) sects in full communion with The Church: Each respecting each other's Liturgies, Sacraments, Litururgies, Bishops's Authoritty: Attending Eastern Divine Liturgy on Their Consecrated Brea/Wine Communiion Their way counts as Catholic Mass/Communion. We can only Attend/Observe the Orthodox same, until in Full Communion. :byzsoc: