Questions About Divorce

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Galnextdoor

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I have looked in the Catholic Catechism about conditions where a Catholic might divorce. The conditions mentioned had to do with the division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance.

It says that separation can be legitimate under certain circumstances provided by canon law.

I am in the process of divorcing my husband. I go before the judge in a few weeks.

I find it odd that the Catholic Catechism doesn’t mention that divorce would be acceptable due to physical abuse. If you are afraid that the person might accidently kill you if you remain with him, than surely this would constitute grounds for divorce. I know it must be grounds for separation, but it seems like it would be grounds for a divorce as well.

He says that I have committed a grave sin against him, and what I am doing is immoral.

He has hit me, shoved me, and choked me until I was partially unconscious. I thought he was going to kill me. He is unapologetic and feels that he has the right to hit me when he thinks I’ve done something wrong.

I have let him have everything. I am not attached to things, so there is no property to divide. We don’t have children. I guess the divorce would be legitimate, because he wants a son from a previous marriage to inherit the house and property. In this state, the only way my name can be removed as an inheritor is divorce.

I just don’t understand how divorce due to physical abuse would be immoral.

Is there an official church document that would shed some light on this subject?
 
Galnextdoor,

I am so sorry you find yourself in this terrible situation! I hope you are somewhere safe and that people around you know what’s going on so that you don’t have to live in fear and isolation.

I would say that the passage you quoted in the catechism does speak to your predicament. The first part of the portion you mentioned is from CCC 2383:
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights… it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.
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Do you need a restraining order? Do you need protection from your spouse that can only be obtained if you divorce rather than separate? These are legitimate reasons for divorce. I suppose it’s important for you to understand your personal hope for what the divorce will accomplish and to recognize that while it can’t end a valid marriage (in other words, you’ll still be validly married to this man even after your civil divorce), that nevertheless the Church wants you to be safe and living in an environment where you are not subject to abuse or fear of abuse.

Also, you may have already seen this, but this is what cannon law says about separation:
SEPARATION WITH THE BOND REMAINING

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.
.
.
.
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Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.
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God bless you. I hope you find peace and security.
 
Galnextdoor said:
I have looked in the Catholic Catechism about conditions where a Catholic might divorce. The conditions mentioned had to do with the division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance.

It says that separation can be legitimate under certain circumstances provided by canon law.

I am in the process of divorcing my husband. I go before the judge in a few weeks.

I find it odd that the Catholic Catechism doesn’t mention that divorce would be acceptable due to physical abuse. If you are afraid that the person might accidently kill you if you remain with him, than surely this would constitute grounds for divorce. I know it must be grounds for separation, but it seems like it would be grounds for a divorce as well.

He says that I have committed a grave sin against him, and what I am doing is immoral.

He has hit me, shoved me, and choked me until I was partially unconscious. I thought he was going to kill me. He is unapologetic and feels that he has the right to hit me when he thinks I’ve done something wrong.

I have let him have everything. I am not attached to things, so there is no property to divide. We don’t have children. I guess the divorce would be legitimate, because he wants a son from a previous marriage to inherit the house and property. In this state, the only way my name can be removed as an inheritor is divorce.

I just don’t understand how divorce due to physical abuse would be immoral.

Is there an official church document that would shed some light on this subject?
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Most Catholics do not understand the teaching of marriage handed down by Jesus.

There is NO divorce for Catholics. period.

That does not mean that you have to subject yourself to harm. The Church recognizes that if a spouse is in danger of physical harm, she/he can seek a separation from the Church.

And further if the spouse entered marriage not knowing the true nature of the other spouse it can be a reason to apply for an annulment. Which again is NOT divorce.

An annulment simply means that either one of the spouses entered sacramental marriage under false premises. Therefore that marriage was unlawful to begin with.
If your husband believes he can inflict harm to you he does not understand what his duties are as spelled out by St. Paul.

It is important that you bring your particular situation to the knowledge and intervention of the Church. Speak with your priest. Seek the declaration of separation FROM THE CHURCH. As you stated that physical violence was involved the Church will grant it to you. And after you have decided that you will not or cannot reconcile with your husband you can seek the annulment.
Also you should try to learn about the Sacrament of marriage and where the Church gets it’s position. Believe me it is not something the Church brought out of a hat. Jesus positively commanded us about this.
The Jews in Jesus time did divorce.
HE told them that this not what GOD commanded since the beginning.

…
 
I’m involved in an annulment process right now, and based on what the priest told me, you may have a case if the tribunal ends up believing that your husband has had violence issues that predate the marriage. Or if the violence is due to alcoholism or drug abuse, and the tribunal finds that he was predisposed to this addiction prior to your marriage.

The basic thing is, in order to annul a marriage, the tribunal needs to find something that means the marriage was invalid from the beginning. Some flaw, especially if the flaw was hidden from you and you entered the marriage not knowing of it. If basically your marriage was good for 20 years and then all of a sudden this violence began occurring and cannot be traced to anything from before you were married, they may not find in favor of an annulment.
 
JerryZ said:
There is NO divorce for Catholics. period.

And further if the spouse entered marriage not knowing the true nature of the other spouse it can be a reason to apply for an annulment. Which again is NOT divorce.
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Actually, in many places, you must have a civil divorce before you can begin the annulment process. And as the OP mentioned, the Catechism does mention times when a civil divorce is allowable.

I think the way you worded the first line of your post may be confusing to some people. It would be more accurate to say that, while there are conditions where it is OK to get a civil divorce (and I certainly think that physical abuse is one of those conditions), it does not affect the sacramental marriage. You are married in the eyes of God and of the Church, regardless of whether you have a civil divorce, unless you also get an annulment (which of course may or may not be possible, depending on the conditions present when the wedding took place).

–Jen
 
nodito said:
Galnextdoor,

I am so sorry you find yourself in this terrible situation! I hope you are somewhere safe and that people around you know what’s going on so that you don’t have to live in fear and isolation.

I would say that the passage you quoted in the catechism does speak to your predicament. The first part of the portion you mentioned is from CCC 2383:

Do you need a restraining order? Do you need protection from your spouse that can only be obtained if you divorce rather than separate? These are legitimate reasons for divorce. I suppose it’s important for you to understand your personal hope for what the divorce will accomplish and to recognize that while it can’t end a valid marriage (in other words, you’ll still be validly married to this man even after your civil divorce), that nevertheless the Church wants you to be safe and living in an environment where you are not subject to abuse or fear of abuse.

Also, you may have already seen this, but this is what cannon law says about separation:

God bless you. I hope you find peace and security.
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I have read what you have quoted and the legal rights are what I spoke of above, i.e. division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance.

I also mentioned the separation part. Separation is not the same thing as divorce.
 
Guys, maybe the question is slightly out of place here, but is canonical separation with the bond remaining ever used in our times?
 
JerryZ said:
Most Catholics do not understand the teaching of marriage handed down by Jesus.

There is NO divorce for Catholics. period.

That does not mean that you have to subject yourself to harm. The Church recognizes that if a spouse is in danger of physical harm, she/he can seek a separation from the Church.

And further if the spouse entered marriage not knowing the true nature of the other spouse it can be a reason to apply for an annulment. Which again is NOT divorce.

An annulment simply means that either one of the spouses entered sacramental marriage under false premises. Therefore that marriage was unlawful to begin with.
If your husband believes he can inflict harm to you he does not understand what his duties are as spelled out by St. Paul.

It is important that you bring your particular situation to the knowledge and intervention of the Church. Speak with your priest. Seek the declaration of separation FROM THE CHURCH. As you stated that physical violence was involved the Church will grant it to you. And after you have decided that you will not or cannot reconcile with your husband you can seek the annulment.
Also you should try to learn about the Sacrament of marriage and where the Church gets it’s position. Believe me it is not something the Church brought out of a hat. Jesus positively commanded us about this.
The Jews in Jesus time did divorce.
HE told them that this not what GOD commanded since the beginning.

…
Click to expand...
I understand and agree with what the church teaches. I just thought it was odd that it would mention division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance, but not fear of death. 🤷 I thought maybe it was mentioned in a different place.
 
Galnextdoor said:
I have read what you have quoted and the legal rights are what I spoke of above, i.e. division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance.

I also mentioned the separation part. Separation is not the same thing as divorce.
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Divorce is not something the Church deals with. It’s a civil matter. For the Church, if you are separated from your spouse, it doesn’t matter if you are civilly divorced or not. In countries where no-fault divorce is not the norm, many couples remain legally married but separated for decades. What matters to the Church is that, if living together (conjugal life) is not possible or prudent, that both parties still pay heed to other obligations such as the children.
 
Galnextdoor said:
I understand and agree with what the church teaches. I just thought it was odd that it would mention division of property, custody of children, and protection of inheritance, but not fear of death. 🤷 I thought maybe it was mentioned in a different place.
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I may be wrong, but I think the idea may have been that you could be fully protected from harm just by a legal separation. I have no idea whether you could or not, and you probably took that into account when you decided to go for divorce, but if you cannot be as adequately protected from harm by a separation, I think that would fall under “…ensuring certain legal rights…” which is mentioned in the paragraph about divorce (#2383).

And of course, if you think you may have grounds for an annulment, you might have to get a divorce in order to proceed. I know it is the case that you have to do that where I live.

I am by no means an expert, though.

–Jen
 
I found this in canon law I hope it helps

Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.
 
JurisPrudens said:
Guys, maybe the question is slightly out of place here, but is canonical separation with the bond remaining ever used in our times?
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My understanding means that separation is merely the cessation of conjugal living. I imagine there are lots of couples who live separately but are not civilly divorced. I sometimes hear it framed as “taking a break” when one of the spouses moves out temporarily.

Is this not common where you live?
 
Corki said:
Divorce is not something the Church deals with. It’s a civil matter. For the Church, if you are separated from your spouse, it doesn’t matter if you are civilly divorced or not. In countries where no-fault divorce is not the norm, many couples remain legally married but separated for decades. What matters to the Church is that, if living together (conjugal life) is not possible or prudent, that both parties still pay heed to other obligations such as the children.
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I know the Church does not give divorces, but it does give instances where divorce is allowed. I would think that physical danger would be one.

It is highly unlikely the marriage was valid to begin with. If the marriage isn’t valid, then you have to get a divorce, before you can obtain an annulment.

I didn’t realize that he was a habitual liar. He lied about most everything he told me about himself. He is a computer programmer and a Catholic. I think those are the only two things he told me about himself that were true. Oh, he likes Italian food. That was true too. It got to the point where I sat down one day and thought, “I have absolutely no idea who this person is. Where do the lies end and the truth begin?”

It was so weird how he would give a half-truth and twist it into something else. I think my favorite lie was when I confronted him with not being Italian. He said he was Italian. I told him I knew he wasn’t Italian and that his people had come from Austria close to the Italian border, but they identified as Austrian and spoke German. His response was, “Well, I told you that they were from near the Italian-Austrian border. I could have some Italian in me.”

He told me he was a tea-totaler. He didn’t drink at all. Turns out he was a tea-totaler, because he is a recovering alcoholic.🤷 He said he didn’t want to tell me he was a recovering alcoholic, because he knew I wouldn’t give him the time of day.

His lies went on and on. I have no I idea who he is.
 
Galnextdoor said:
I know the Church does not give divorces, but it does give instances where divorce is allowed. I would think that physical danger would be one.

It is highly unlikely the marriage was valid to begin with. If the marriage isn’t valid, then you have to get a divorce, before you can obtain an annulment.

I didn’t realize that he was a habitual liar. He lied about most everything he told me about himself. He is a computer programmer and a Catholic. I think those are the only two things he told me about himself that were true. Oh, he likes Italian food. That was true too. It got to the point where I sat down one day and thought, “I have absolutely no idea who this person is. Where do the lies end and the truth begin?”

It was so weird how he would give a half-truth and twist it into something else. I think my favorite lie was when I confronted him with not being Italian. He said he was Italian. I told him I knew he wasn’t Italian and that his people had come from Austria close to the Italian border, but they identified as Austrian and spoke German. His response was, “Well, I told you that they were from near the Italian-Austrian border. I could have some Italian in me.”

He told me he was a tea-totaler. He didn’t drink at all. Turns out he was a tea-totaler, because he is a recovering alcoholic.🤷 He said he didn’t want to tell me he was a recovering alcoholic, because he knew I wouldn’t give him the time of day.

His lies went on and on. I have no I idea who he is.
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This explains quite a bit of his behavior, not excusing it. With many addicts their emotional maturity is stunted and many have a difficult time with forming and keeping close relationships. Dishonesty is easy for them because during active substance abuse (drugs or alcohol) they have to lie to everyone as well as themselves. It becomes such a way of life it often spills over to sober life.

It’s natural to want answers to “why”. Why did he behave they way he did? Why didn’t he love me enough? Why wasn’t my love enough? Why did he lie to me? Why did he think it was OK to hurt me? He will never be able to answer those questions, he’ll just give you more lies. I’ve been in your shoes (although I wasn’t married), and I know how much it hurts. You did nothing wrong. Seek some counseling to process your emotions.

If you are in the US once you have your divorce finalized speak to your priest or a deacon regarding the annulment process. Move on with your life and be at peace.
 
Galnextdoor said:
Horton;13188684:
It does say that separation due to physical abuse is allowed, but it is not listed as one of the instances where divorce is allowed. Maybe this is just common sense? The Church just assumes that you would naturally divorce in this situation?

I am just curious to know if there is a document not already mentioned above that might have more details.
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i think you are getting a little stuck with the terminology

in countries where the church does not deal with these issues directly, civil divorce is basically an indefinite separation as far as these things are concerned. obviously, you can both move out without making it official but you still can’t remarry even if you have a civil divorce if the marriage was valid. so basically, it’s not that different, it’s more of a legality issue, for the purpose of children, inheritance/ property etC… this is why the church often seems to use the terms separation and divorce interchangeably

also, I noticed you mentioned something about him having a son from a previous marriage? in which case, it is likely that your marriage is invalid because he may not have been free to marry you in the first place
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