Questions About Divorce

[Galnextdoor]

In reading this thread, I get the mental picture of two doctors in an operating room, getting into a debate over what diameter needle to use with which type of thread in order to suture a wound, and in the meanwhile, the patient is laying on the table, quickly bleeding out.

I don’t know all the facts of the case, but what she has said has set off all sorts of alarms for me.

Assuming that she is honest (and I see nothing to contradict that), if not entirely forthright (he was beating her, likely hard enough to make the snot fly, if you want a graphic and she was not confronting that fact), she needs to be told to get to a divorce attorney as fast as she can move, and sort out the fine details later.

He lies like a bad rug - on the floor, on the walls, on the ceiling, on the roof, in the courtyard… He opens his mouth, and she has no clue what, if any part of his statement, is at least possibly based on a warping of truth, and what is an outright lie.

He beats her - until she is bruised badly enough that friends and family not only notice it, but they also comment. Either he is a lousy hitter (because the better ones hit where the bruises won’t show), or he is hitting more and harder and can’t aim as well.

She exhibits a typical abused spouse syndrome of "what did I do to make him hit me. That is an “Alice in Wonderland” mindset that is brought on when one finds themselves in a relationship that is upside down and inside out from what appeared to be reality when it started (courtship). Talking about this section of the CCC or that item in the Code might as well be written in Swahili for all the good it will do her.

Nowhere does the Church say that she should try to stay the course, when the other spouse is borderline a pathological liar, repeatedly physically violent to the point of leaving enough bruises that others “get it”; is and has been an alcoholic, and “had surgery to repair some tendons on the wrist” (industrial accident? car accident? attempted suicide?).

If we can’t give her some support and practical advice, then perhaps we should sit on the sidelines and watch for someone else to do so.

Just for the record. He only choked me four times. He shoved me into things several times and slammed trash can lid down on my hand once. He shoved me with a board once, which left a big bruise on my arm. He hit me upside the head once. Grabbed my wrist, squeezing so hard that it left a bruise. The violence seemed to be escalating, and he was unapologetic. He felt that I deserved to be hit.

The priest thought I should try to reconcile, which I did. I kept my own place, and tried to get him to go to counseling with me. He admitted to the counselor that he didn’t think hitting me was any big deal, as long as he didn’t do any permanent damage. He said choking me was accidental.

There was a time in my life where I would have thought it was my fault and that I deserved it, but that was a long time ago. I know that everyone deserves to be treated with human dignity and respect because all people are children of God.

He said that divorcing him was immoral.

I was trying to find out if the Church would allow someone to divorce due to physical abuse, without it being sinful. I think that two people gave me some good answers. One person said that divorce is a civil matter, which would be why the church listed only the civil reasons for divorce. Another person posted that separation was allowed when someone was abused, and that the marriage was probably not valid. If the marriage is not valid and you want to get an annulment in the USA, you have to divorce first.

From these above posts, I reasoned that with all the lies he told me, the marriage was probably not valid. I must first divorce, before the Church could officially decide that. Therefore, I am not sinning.

If the Church should decide that the marriage is valid, than I will still be married to him in the eyes of God. I would not be eligible for another civil marriage, and I accept that.

 

[Galnextdoor]

To the OP: If I have not seemed supportive, I apologize. I have tried to answer what I thought was your question to the best of my ability, and if anything I said gave you the impression that you should not physically separate from and divorce your husband, I didn’t mean it to. My gut feel is that you should do those things, but as an anonymous person online, I don’t think I could possibly be qualified to give you advice about it. I hope that God blesses you with comfort and peace.

–Jen

I think most people on here were trying to console me. I appreciate their compassion. Their were a few who were not as compassionate, which I understand. I think that some people look at annulment as a Catholic trying to do an end run around the divorce issue. I am not trying to do that. I sincerely believe that the marriage was not valid. If the Church says it was, than I accept that. I love God and want to do His will.

 

[chesterlab]

I wouldn’t worry about the semantics I see on this board. Having been a legal assistant for 21 years working with family court matters, I’ve seen it all. you need to get away from this guy before he kills you. Yes, you could get a restraining order, but in my experience, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on. But go for one anyway. At least perhaps you can get a permanent one, which might help. You can get divorced in the Catholic church, you know. It’s the attempt at remarriage which is the issue. And I am divorced and was just confirmed a year ago and take communion every day. But then, I have no desire to remarry. I had a marriage not unsimilar to yours.

Question: do you have kids with this man? Then all the more reason to get away from him, because he will go from beating you to redirecting on the kids. My ex went after my older 15 year old son when he tried to intervene a few times, and that was something I wasn’t putting up with. My uncle did that one fine day as well. Beat my aunt up and then started in on my cousin, who was the same age as me, and knocked her down a flight of stairs. She has permanent back damage now.

Finally, go see a lawyer. Get advice as to what your rights are. Then go talk to your priest. If he tells you to stay in that mess, get another priest.

 

[Phemie]

I think most people on here were trying to console me. I appreciate their compassion. Their were a few who were not as compassionate, which I understand. I think that some people look at annulment as a Catholic trying to do an end run around the divorce issue. I am not trying to do that. I sincerely believe that the marriage was not valid. If the Church says it was, than I accept that. I love God and want to do His will.

It may well be that the Tribunal will find that your husband has a personality disorder that makes him unable to validly get married. Or they may find that his lying about his alcoholism prevented you from giving free consent.

I would never consider seeking a decree of nullity as an “end run around divorce.” I’ve known people who never should have been married.

When I was parish secretary I became aware of this situation:
A man who had been a Knight of Columbus in a previous parish moved here and transferred his membership. He happened to be cohabiting with his girlfriend and they had a 2 year old daughter. I believe his membership in the other parish preceded that situation. Fast forward two years and the guy is elected to the executive of the local Council. All hell breaks loose as the older members are appalled that someone who is not in good standing in the Church is being elected.

The guy decides to get married. Less than a year later his wife leaves him and goes to live with her married boyfriend who has a son older than she is.

Did either of them come to that marriage with complete free will?? Or did the circumstances make them feel that they had no choice but to get married? Even the priest (who was also the K of C Chaplain) had doubts on this one yet he went ahead with the marriage. How do I know, because he told me.

 

[otjm]

Just for the record. He only choked me four times. He shoved me into things several times and slammed trash can lid down on my hand once. He shoved me with a board once, which left a big bruise on my arm. He hit me upside the head once. Grabbed my wrist, squeezing so hard that it left a bruise. The violence seemed to be escalating, and he was unapologetic. He felt that I deserved to be hit.

The priest thought I should try to reconcile, which I did. I kept my own place, and tried to get him to go to counseling with me. He admitted to the counselor that he didn’t think hitting me was any big deal, as long as he didn’t do any permanent damage. He said choking me was accidental.

There was a time in my life where I would have thought it was my fault and that I deserved it, but that was a long time ago. I know that everyone deserves to be treated with human dignity and respect because all people are children of God.

He said that divorcing him was immoral.

I was trying to find out if the Church would allow someone to divorce due to physical abuse, without it being sinful. I think that two people gave me some good answers. One person said that divorce is a civil matter, which would be why the church listed only the civil reasons for divorce. Another person posted that separation was allowed when someone was abused, and that the marriage was probably not valid. If the marriage is not valid and you want to get an annulment in the USA, you have to divorce first.

From these above posts, I reasoned that with all the lies he told me, the marriage was probably not valid. I must first divorce, before the Church could officially decide that. Therefore, I am not sinning.

If the Church should decide that the marriage is valid, than I will still be married to him in the eyes of God. I would not be eligible for another civil marriage, and I accept that.

He is not only physically abusive, he is also a first class manipulator. You are not sinning in any way, shape or form. You deserve far far better than you have received.

Trust in God, and listen carefully to your attorney. And once this is behind you, seek out a priest or deacon who can help you through the process of applying for a decree of nullity. It will take time, but it is so worth it.

 

[otjm]

I wouldn’t worry about the semantics I see on this board. Having been a legal assistant for 21 years working with family court matters, I’ve seen it all. you need to get away from this guy before he kills you. Yes, you could get a restraining order, but in my experience, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on. But go for one anyway. At least perhaps you can get a permanent one, which might help. You can get divorced in the Catholic church, you know. It’s the attempt at remarriage which is the issue. And I am divorced and was just confirmed a year ago and take communion every day. But then, I have no desire to remarry. I had a marriage not unsimilar to yours.

Question: do you have kids with this man? Then all the more reason to get away from him, because he will go from beating you to redirecting on the kids. My ex went after my older 15 year old son when he tried to intervene a few times, and that was something I wasn’t putting up with. My uncle did that one fine day as well. Beat my aunt up and then started in on my cousin, who was the same age as me, and knocked her down a flight of stairs. She has permanent back damage now.

Finally, go see a lawyer. Get advice as to what your rights are. Then go talk to your priest. If he tells you to stay in that mess, get another priest.

Amen!