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TrueLight
Guest
I am not new to fasting although I find it difficult. . I’ve fasted for various reasons. Primarily I fast when I am seeking a deeper relationship with God or for spiritual strength, sort of like the Apostles fasted…
I have also fasted when I needed an answer to prayer, in the same manner Esther fasted:
** Esther 4:16**
“Go and gather together all the Jews of Susa and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. My maids and I will do the same. And then, though it is against the law, I will go in to see the king. If I must die, I must die”
I think I can because if I’m focusing on the reason for the fast, that’s what is important. But I still feel that there is merit in denying yourself and if you are someone who eats like a bird anyway (not me), what difference does one whole meal and 2 small meals make?
For me a stricter fast means the denial is more acute and I am more aware of the fast.
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TrueLight
Guest
Thanks for this link.
There is a great emphasis on voluntary observation of Fridays as a penance day, all year long whether that means abstaining from meat and alcohol, fasting or doing good works. I think that’s lovely and something I am going to strive for.
**
“We impose no fast before any feast-day, but we suggest that the devout will find greater Christian joy in the feasts of the liturgical calendar if they freely bind themselves, for their own motives and in their own spirit of piety, to prepare for each Church festival by a day of particular self-denial, penitential prayer and fasting.”**
Does that mean we don’t find as great a joy when it is mandatory?
I would still love to know when the fasting rules were changed if they were?
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jmcrae
Guest
I don’t even know where this is coming from. Who has suggested that people would “cram” their small meal and two snacks into the evening hours? (I’m assuming, after fasting for the whole day before that, right?)
There is very little to “cram” - one cookie, one piece of fruit, one serving of rice and one serving of vegetables, or the equivalent amount of food in some other form, could be eaten in a period of 15-20 minutes, if it were eaten all at once - I don’t know how anyone would get from that, to snacking all evening long - unless they eat re-e-e-eally slo-o-o-owly.
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malphono
Guest
Apparently the nuance has been lost in the shuffle (not unusual in threads in these fora).
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markomalley
Guest
According to the document I linked, the particular law changed in 1965 within the US.
As far as finding it a great joy…
Think about this: if you are doing so voluntarily, you are doing so with the motivation of voluntary self-sacrifice and mortification. An effort to join closer with God. If you are doing so because Church law says that you must, you are doing so to comply with Church law. Which do you believe would be a “purer” motivation?
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markomalley
Guest
Consider, also, this:
If a 10 year old child asks a lot of questions along the lines of: “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” it’s almost expected behavior. He/she is not really expected to have the spiritual, mental, or emotional maturity to understand the underlying principles that cause an act to be sinful or not. That’s not to say that there are no 10-year old children who don’t have a deeper spiritual understanding, but it really isn’t expected.
You give them rules to keep them between the lines.
You can’t really expect them to fully comprehend the significance of statements like
[bibledrb]Rom 12:1[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Col 1:27[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]col 1:24[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Rom 8:10-17[/bibledrb]
and so on.
On the other hand, if a 40 year old adult asks a lot of questions along the lines of: “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” it shows a profound lack of spiritual maturity on the part of that person.
Unfortunately, many folks’ spiritual development seems to be arrested at the 10 year old level. They don’t pursue the deeper meaning of the “why” behind the “what.”
Frankly, fasting, abstinence, or any other mortification without a good, solid understanding of the “why” is really sort of meaningless. It is compliant. But without the understanding of why you’re doing what you’re doing, you get only minimal benefit from it.
If a 10 year old child asks a lot of questions along the lines of: “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” it’s almost expected behavior. He/she is not really expected to have the spiritual, mental, or emotional maturity to understand the underlying principles that cause an act to be sinful or not. That’s not to say that there are no 10-year old children who don’t have a deeper spiritual understanding, but it really isn’t expected.
You give them rules to keep them between the lines.
You can’t really expect them to fully comprehend the significance of statements like
[bibledrb]Rom 12:1[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Col 1:27[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]col 1:24[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Rom 8:10-17[/bibledrb]
and so on.
On the other hand, if a 40 year old adult asks a lot of questions along the lines of: “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” “Is this a sin,” it shows a profound lack of spiritual maturity on the part of that person.
Unfortunately, many folks’ spiritual development seems to be arrested at the 10 year old level. They don’t pursue the deeper meaning of the “why” behind the “what.”
Frankly, fasting, abstinence, or any other mortification without a good, solid understanding of the “why” is really sort of meaningless. It is compliant. But without the understanding of why you’re doing what you’re doing, you get only minimal benefit from it.
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thequeen
Guest
I can not do the fast because I am diabetic but i do abstain from meat on all fridays during the year and on Good Friday I get my protein from cheese fish not catfish yuck!! and peanut butter I try to do something for someone like seeing if anyone needs a ride to Mass or something like that oh and I do abstain from meat on ash wednesday also.
J
JM3
Guest
papalencyclicals.net/Clem13/c13appet.htm
Appetente Sacro
Encyclical of Pope Clement XIII promulgated on December 20, 1759.
- You will begin most appropriately, and with hope of the greatest profit, to recall men to the observance of the holy law of fasting, if you teach the people this: penance for the Christian man is not satisfied by withdrawing from sin, by detesting a past life badly lived, or by the sacramental confession of these same sins. Rather, penance also demands that we satisfy divine justice with fasting, almsgiving, prayer, and other works of the spiritual life.
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Padraig1972
Guest
Rules are rules. I listen to the church teachings. I know that i could have eaten one medium meal (not meat, i never eat meat at fridays). But i did choose to only drink water and maintain total abstinence from food and other things that are deemed as luxurious.
I do it of course to get closer to God and to remind myself what Lord Christ went through in His great sufferings for us.
I do it of course to get closer to God and to remind myself what Lord Christ went through in His great sufferings for us.
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zmyr88
Guest
because the liturgical good friday, is observed at sundown. of some date: i believe this is Friday sundown. starts the commencement of the lords passion.Good Friday runs from midnight to midnight, 24 hours, as does any Friday. Practically speaking, many folks won’t eat late at night anyway (Thursday) or during the middle of the night (Friday) so the first “normal” meal after Good Friday would be Saturday breakfast.
Why would you think you should start a Good Friday fast on Friday night? Makes no sense to me.
but as one quoted, THE CURCH does consider midnight to midnight to be the determinant, instead of by tradition/ nature of the jewish influcence (the events were observed in 0?AD as actually following the Jewish method of keeping time hence, prep made before sundown.) and i believe for instance they could not bury jesus after sundown. as it would have been the next day.
ALSO: since we are talking other aspects of fasting. whats the stance on how often/ many times one may consume plain water.
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jmcrae
Guest
No, if we are talking about the Liturgy of the Hours, the first of the Good Friday prayers are on Friday at 3:00 am.
If we are talking about how the Jews counted the days, it starts at sunset on Thursday evening, and in the Jewish calendar, it would run until Friday at sundown, which would be the start of Saturday, and then at sundown on Saturday, both the Jews and the Christians would consider it Sunday, which is why we start to celebrate Easter Vigil at around sun down on Saturday evening.
Jesus was arrested at sun-down on Holy Thursday, after the Last Supper. His trial took place on the Friday morning, and he was crucified at noon. He died at 3:00 pm and was buried before 6:00 pm (sun down). He remained in the tomb from no later than 6:00 pm on Good Friday until no earlier than the dawn watch (6:00 am) on Easter Sunday, since it was the guards of the dawn watch who observed the stone rolling itself away from the tomb, and saw the angels descending from Heaven to assist Jesus.
I suppose it depends on how close you are to a bathroom - I think you can drink as much water as you want.
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Crumpy
Guest
there is no requirement to abstain from drinking water.
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Crumpy
Guest
The direct answer to the question, “are we too wimpy” would involve judging other people, and I try to do as little of that as possible.
Someone said we should know the reason for the fasting and abstinence and I don’t recall ever getting a good explanation of that. We’re just told the rules, usually. And, the rules on Catholic calendars are usually stated in an oblique way. by printing a fish symbol on the fridays of lent plus ash wednesday.
I am overweight and virtually addicted to eating. Truthfully, I don’t fast. I find it impossible, as much as it is impossible to control my impulses for overeating. The day starts out for me OK, but then I just go insane. I think it is physiological. I can go 16 hours without eating, and I am not ravenous or anything. But, then we I get started, it’s very hard to control, until I am full.
I’m over 59, so I don’t think the fasting pertains to me anymore (CMIIW).
My income is rather low, and eating fish on Fridays is expensive. The K of C clubs want to MAKE MONEY on their fish frys, so it’s expensive to patronize them. I normally don’t spend anywhere near $9 per meal. So, eating fish is actually an extravagance (and I like fish, by the way).
Jews are supposed to totally abstain from food and drink and water on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. Muslims fast during the day, for the month of Ramadan (CMIIW). So, it’s possible, as much as those people observe these dietary restrictions.
Someone said we should know the reason for the fasting and abstinence and I don’t recall ever getting a good explanation of that. We’re just told the rules, usually. And, the rules on Catholic calendars are usually stated in an oblique way. by printing a fish symbol on the fridays of lent plus ash wednesday.
I am overweight and virtually addicted to eating. Truthfully, I don’t fast. I find it impossible, as much as it is impossible to control my impulses for overeating. The day starts out for me OK, but then I just go insane. I think it is physiological. I can go 16 hours without eating, and I am not ravenous or anything. But, then we I get started, it’s very hard to control, until I am full.
I’m over 59, so I don’t think the fasting pertains to me anymore (CMIIW).
My income is rather low, and eating fish on Fridays is expensive. The K of C clubs want to MAKE MONEY on their fish frys, so it’s expensive to patronize them. I normally don’t spend anywhere near $9 per meal. So, eating fish is actually an extravagance (and I like fish, by the way).
Jews are supposed to totally abstain from food and drink and water on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. Muslims fast during the day, for the month of Ramadan (CMIIW). So, it’s possible, as much as those people observe these dietary restrictions.
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Shin
Guest
‘Are we too wimpy?’
Yes.
Yes.
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mark_avery
Guest
I think it is more relevant to acknowledge the words of Jesus in that we can do nothing without his will, be polite to yourself…
Take care…
ps…(my fasting sometimes involves running to the fridge very quickly)…
Take care…
ps…(my fasting sometimes involves running to the fridge very quickly)…
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mattkubes
Guest
Take a listen to this sermon on traditional fasting. Yes, we’re getting awfully whimpy.
audiosancto.org/sermon/20110227-Lent-Fasting-and-Abstinence-in-the-Tradition-of-the-Church.html
And consider this:
“The observance of Lent is the very badge of the Christian warfare. By it we prove ourselves not to be enemies of Christ. By it we avert the scourges of divine justice. By it we gain strength against the princes of darkness, for it shields us with heavenly help. Should mankind grow remiss in their observance of Lent, it would be a detriment to God’s glory, a disgrace to the Catholic religion, and a danger to Christian souls. Neither can it be doubted that such negligence would become the source of misery to the world, of public calamity, and of private woe.” - Non ambigimus
audiosancto.org/sermon/20110227-Lent-Fasting-and-Abstinence-in-the-Tradition-of-the-Church.html
And consider this:
“The observance of Lent is the very badge of the Christian warfare. By it we prove ourselves not to be enemies of Christ. By it we avert the scourges of divine justice. By it we gain strength against the princes of darkness, for it shields us with heavenly help. Should mankind grow remiss in their observance of Lent, it would be a detriment to God’s glory, a disgrace to the Catholic religion, and a danger to Christian souls. Neither can it be doubted that such negligence would become the source of misery to the world, of public calamity, and of private woe.” - Non ambigimus
meltzerboy
New member
The Jewish fast on Yom Kippur is more than 24 hours, and you’re right, no food or drink, including water. In fact, no food or water is supposed to touch your lips; no brushing of teeth is allowed. There are a couple of other complete fast days, but only the Orthodox Jews abide by them. It’s difficult, and on Yom Kippur you’re also supposed to be in synagogue praying most of the time. If the weather is warm and you attend an Orthodox synagogue, there is no air conditioning. Perfect conditions for fainting! However, the ill and pregnant women are not required or even permitted to fast. As to the elderly, it depends: some rabbis will tell them if they feel too weak to fast, they should not; others will say nothing. Children below the age of 13 (between the ages of about 9 to 12) do not have to fast the whole day, but are advised to fast for part of the day. Of course, young children and, needless to say, infants do not fast.
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yinekka
Guest
As far as I am aware, the black fast was bread and water. To get an idea of what was permitted and what was not, check out The Black Fast - newadvent.org/cathen/02590c.htm
This fast was prescribed in a time when not much would have been known about the importance of adequate hydration and nutritional intake. As the article says this fast was modified over time. Back in the old days before Vatican II the priest could always give permission for someone not to fast e.g. labourers and people who performed work which required a lot of energy.
This fast was prescribed in a time when not much would have been known about the importance of adequate hydration and nutritional intake. As the article says this fast was modified over time. Back in the old days before Vatican II the priest could always give permission for someone not to fast e.g. labourers and people who performed work which required a lot of energy.
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