questions about Lutheran service

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rush176

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I just got back from a Lutheran wedding (Missouri synod) and I was struck by several things. First the pastor wore an alb and a stole in the same way as our priests. He even had it tucked in his rope/belt too. Plus he wore what I always called a roman collar underneath. what is the reasoning behind this choice of vestments?

The other thing was the church had a large red candle burning that looked just like the one we have in our RCC that signifies the presence of Jesus in the tabernacle.
 
I used to be an ELCA Lutheran. Our pastor wore the same vestments as the Roman Catholic priests and we also had the light signifying there was consecrated host in the tabernacle. In the ELCA, they believe that the host is the real presence of Christ during communion but reverts back to bread and wine after the service is over. I was told they just liked the look of the light, that it didn’t signify that the host, which had been consecrated during the mass, was considered to be the real presence once mass was over, but was just a historical decoration of the christian church. HTH.
 
Hello Rush176, I am a seminarian in the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. Maybe I could help answer your question. Traditionally, Lutherans have sought to change nothing of the vestments, decorations, and even the liturgy wherever we felt it was possible in light of Sacred Scripture. This continuity of the historic teaching and practice of the church was a big issue during the Lutheran reformation in the 16th century, and for many of us, it still is. My pastor wears a Roman collar, an alb, a stole, and a chasuble for every mass. Outside of the liturgical service, He is seldom seen not wearing his Roman collar. As a seminarian, I wear a Roman collar when acting ‘officially,’ and I wear an alb and cincture during mass. I won’t receive a stole until I am ordained. If a Roman Catholic were to attend Divine Service at a conservative LCMS church, the liturgy would probably be quite familiar to them.

In Christ,
LCMS_Guy
 
LCMS_Guy said:
Traditionally, Lutherans have sought to change nothing of the vestments, decorations, and even the liturgy wherever we felt it was possible in light of Sacred Scripture. This continuity of the historic teaching and practice of the church was a big issue during the Lutheran reformation in the 16th century, and for many of us, it still is. My pastor wears a Roman collar, an alb, a stole, and a chasuble for every mass. Outside of the liturgical service, He is seldom seen not wearing his Roman collar. As a seminarian, I wear a Roman collar when acting ‘officially,’ and I wear an alb and cincture during mass. I won’t receive a stole until I am ordained. If a Roman Catholic were to attend Divine Service at a conservative LCMS church, the liturgy would probably be quite familiar to them.

In Christ,
LCMS_Guy
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Sounds like you guys should join the Catholic Church.😉
 
Donna_Maria said:
Sounds like you guys should join the Catholic Church.😉
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Well it’s not quite so easy. 🙂 While I admire the RCC for your dedication to the historic faith as well as your staunch pro-life stance, there are many other things I cannot agree with.

In Christ,
LCMS_Guy
 
Episcopalians usually wear alb/stole, as do many United Methodists.

The collar was a Protestant invention, by the way.
 
rush176 said:
The other thing was the church had a large red candle burning that looked just like the one we have in our RCC that signifies the presence of Jesus in the tabernacle.
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United Methodist churches have the red candles too. They are supposed to symbolize the presence of the Holy Spirit. Maybe it is similar? 🤷
 
KarenElissa said:
United Methodist churches have the red candles too. They are supposed to symbolize the presence of the Holy Spirit. Maybe it is similar? 🤷
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I think I misspoke(typed?). The red candle in RCC lets you know that Jesus is present in the tabernacle since we believe once the host is consecrated it becomes (and stays) the body and blood of Jesus. That was the reason for my question about the red candle burning in the Lutheran church since they believe that the host doesn’t stay Jesus and changes back to bread after the service ends. Can anyone help me understand that one.

As an aside when the pastor started the service “In the name of the Father and of the Son…” All my Catholic family members automatically crossed ourselves. Then we caught ourselves - looked at each other and smiled:shrug:
 
rush176 said:
As an aside when the pastor started the service “In the name of the Father and of the Son…” All my Catholic family members automatically crossed ourselves. Then we caught ourselves - looked at each other and smiled:shrug:
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I am a United Methodist, but spent 4 years working on staff in an Lutheran Church (ELCA), we also crossed ourselves. Did you not notice the pastor giving the sign of the cross at that time in the service?
 
Grace_Seeker said:
I am a United Methodist, but spent 4 years working on staff in an Lutheran Church (ELCA), we also crossed ourselves. Did you not notice the pastor giving the sign of the cross at that time in the service?
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I am a Catholic, but have attended Lutheran services (LCMS). The pastor started the service by giving the sign of the cross.
 
rush176 said:
I think I misspoke(typed?). The red candle in RCC lets you know that Jesus is present in the tabernacle since we believe once the host is consecrated it becomes (and stays) the body and blood of Jesus. That was the reason for my question about the red candle burning in the Lutheran church since they believe that the host doesn’t stay Jesus and changes back to bread after the service ends. Can anyone help me understand that one.QUOTE]

When I was an ELCA Lutheran, I asked my pastor about this. My argument was that we believed the host changed when the pastor said the words of institution. Since the pastor never said words of de-institution, how could the host have changed back to just bread? My pastor thought about that for a long time and finally concluded that I had a good point. After that, he always counted how many people were at church and only used that many hosts so there wouldn’t be any consecrated hosts left over. If there was one or two left over, he consumed them.

The membership varied in its belief about the host. Some thought the nature of the host, whether real presence or merely a symbol, was dependent on the faith and belief of the person consuming it. That never made sense to me. See, I had to become Catholic to get clarity!

Regarding the red light in my ELCA church, our pastor said it had no real liturgical significance for Lutherans; it just looked good.
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rush176 said:
I think I misspoke(typed?). The red candle in RCC lets you know that Jesus is present in the tabernacle since we believe once the host is consecrated it becomes (and stays) the body and blood of Jesus. That was the reason for my question about the red candle burning in the Lutheran church since they believe that the host doesn’t stay Jesus and changes back to bread after the service ends. Can anyone help me understand that one.
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I know it as the eternal flame. It reminds us of the presence of God. It is always lit, 24/7.
As an aside when the pastor started the service “In the name of the Father and of the Son…” All my Catholic family members automatically crossed ourselves. Then we caught ourselves - looked at each other and smiled:shrug:
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Although not common in Lutheran churches, there isn’t anything wrong with crossing yourself.
 
Angainor said:
Although not common in Lutheran churches, there isn’t anything wrong with crossing yourself.
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I wonder if this is a regional or denominational thing - ELCA vs LCMS? I know it to be quite common in the Northern Illinois Synod of the ELCA.
 
We crossed ourselves when we attended an ELCA church as did many other in the congregation. I think those coming from a more conservative ELCA background and any former Catholics were probably the majority.

As for the light, I was also told it signified the Holy Spirit who is always present in a Christian’s life.

That ELCA church used pita for services, so there were crumbs and leftovers. Those were put out for the birds. The Sunday School also taught that Christ was present during communion. But I guess just “fades away” after. I like the rebuttal about the ‘de-institution.’
 
SerenaHC said:
I suppose that, outside of the RCC, there really is no liturgical point to it.
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As others have said here, in the United Methodist Church the red candle (actually an electric “candle” in my present church) is a very common practice and is generally understood to signify the eternal presence of the Holy Spirit.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
As others have said here, in the United Methodist Church the red candle (actually an electric “candle” in my present church) is a very common practice and is generally understood to signify the eternal presence of the Holy Spirit.
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Although it is a different liturgical meaning than it is to Catholics, that is a liturgical purpose.
 
My daughter & husband & kids have been going to a Lutheran Church , Long story short----. Husband was a methodist & was uncomfortable with the CC so they compromisied to a Lutheran church???

I do believe it was for the kids programs they have , alot more active than the CC.Anyway , they are going to church as a family!!! My gkids are involved , being an alter boys & grdaughter made her 1 st communion. They asked if I would come ? Since I go to sat nite Mass I came Sun morning to watch my Grkids.I was very surprised that the gospel I heard on Sat nite was the exact gospel this minister preached on!

The 1st communion was not a’ ritual’ like the CC , all she had to do was call the minister on her own & tell him she wanted to recieve communion I do imagine she had some other 'training" I didn’t ask … No Procession , she just went up with her family & received communion. They also had a kneeling bench up in the altar for people to go up & kneel & the minister comes by with the communion. If I had’nt really known what church, I would have been confused . Oh , they don’t have any kneeling benches at the pews.& no genuflecting at the pews, the service was very much like the CC.
 
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