Questions about Martin Luther

[sadie2723]

Just one more thing for sadie.

I’m male.

My bad! Sorry about that!

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

The Holy Spirit is always accurate. He does not inspire people to denigrate historical truth in favor of the “big picture.”

Exactly. And history quite readilly vindicate’s the claims of Catholicism-- because the Holy Spirit has been active in the church since the beginning.

Contarini:

And please note that I’m talking about the conversions represented by this board, not all conversions to Catholicism.

So you’re saying that the conversions to Catholicism represented by this board are mainly a result of a desperate hunger for unity and authority?

Gee thanks. I guess that clears things up.

Edwin:

Edwin

Hi Edwin.

You can call me Mr. Ex for short.

Edwin, was St. Paul’s admonitions mainly a result of a desperate hunger for unity and authority?
Ephesians 4:3:

Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Romans 15:4-6:

May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How about Jesus’s words on this matter?
John 17:23:

I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Was Jesus’s prayer also mainly a result of a desperate hunger for unity and authority?

Could you explain you position further-- because I’m not really understanding it.

 

[sadie2723]

Joey says he has produced such evidence, but I’ve read through this thread and haven’t seen it. He pointed me to posts that had absolutely no relevance to his claim about Luther’s advisors (true, he refuted the idea that Luther produced the Bible completely on his own, but that was never relevant–it was a weak argument produced by steadfast, and completely unnecessary because the burden of proof was always on Joey).

You should go back and read those a bit slower then.

The most disturbing aspect of this argument is the attitude that the “little things” (i.e., actual historical truth) don’t really matter because the “big issue” is that Luther “broke from the Church.”

No historical facts DO matter…that is what we are talking about here. Now if you want to argue the merits of Luther breaking from the church and leading people into error…we can do that…but probably on another thread.

So much for being “deep in history.” I can’t see that Catholic apologetics has much to do with history at all.

This from the people that have only 500 years of history…juxtaposed to 2000…yeah…that one makes sense.

It really boils down to this:

1. We should have one Church.
2. Protestants haven’t produced a unified Church.
3. Therefore we should pick out everything in history that discredits Protestantism, and ignore or explain away everything that discredits Catholicism. After all, history must point to the truth of Catholicism, or else we will be left with 100,000 denominations or whatever the latest number is.

So what discredits the Catholic Church? Her teaching…no, that is scripture. The history surrounding the church…no that is a matter of historical fact. Hmmm…

It has nothing to do with history. What fuels most conversion to Catholicism on these boards is not a quest for truth as we ordinary mortals understand it, but rather a desperate hunger for unity and authority.

No what fuels most people to convert is the fact that the protestant faith is selling ideas like OSAS, Sola Scriptura, and Sola Fide, that it can’t back up with scripture. The other thing that brings people into the church is the fact that the Catholic Church is the ONLY church in the world that can back up everything that it teaches with scripture…now there is some truth for you.

I share that hunger. But I hunger even more for truth. And I don’t divide truth into little truth and big truth. All truth is God’s truth. If you can only establish the Truth by ignoring truth, then your Truth is a lie.

Wow…that is deep.

Luther is responsible for his own actions, and only his own actions. And those actions must be understood in their historical context. Anything else is mere spin and fluff, if it is not something far more deadly.

Actually, Luther is not only responsible for himself, but he is also responible for the people that he lead away from the Church.

Ok, so I am a bit confused here. If you want to talk about the truth of the Catholic faith, we can start a thread about that. If you want to talk about the fact tht the Catholic Church can back up all teaching with scripture and the protestant church can’t, we can start a thread for that too. Just make up your mind what you want to talk about.

Cheers!

 

[JoeyWarren]

Okay, I went back and read everything. I’m not referred to as female until Sadie does so in post 137.

It seems unlikely that he would be confused about my gender since we’ve known eachother here for a while.

I’d be very surprised anyway/

oops my bad.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Thanks for the support Brad.

 

[sadie2723]

Thanks for the support Brad.

You got it!!

 

[sadie2723]

oops my bad.

Actually…my bad. I am really sorry about that.