Questions about Mary and the saints

[Koineman]

Hello all,

As an evangelical who is exploring Catholicism, one of the areas I’ve had great difficulty with is praying to and devotion to saints.

I heard a priest on the radio this morning explain “devotion” to Mary, saying that it is like our devotion to family members. Just as it is all right for us to be devoted to a wife, husband, son, daughter, etc., the priest explained, so also it is fine for us to be devoted to Mary.

At first that made sense to me, but then it occurred to me that “devotion” in that sense entails intimate relationship. If I am devoted to my family, it is because I have a relationship with them. Similarly, and more importantly, if I am devoted to Christ, it is because I have a relationship with Him. I am not speaking of a vague, distance relationship but rather of an intimate one that involves ongoing, dynamic activity on the part of all involved. I speak to God, He hears me, consoles me, strengthens me, and so on. I draw near to God, and He draws near to me. I act, and God responds; God acts, and I respond. That is relationship. Thus, for me to have devotion to Mary, there must be some ongoing, mutual interaction between the two of us–more than just a one-way praying of Hail Marys on the Rosary. Otherwise what I end up with is devotion without a relationship, which is really quite impossible. Some Catholic prayers to Mary reflect this by including requests not only for intercession but also for protection. In other words, there is an expectation that Mary will interact with the one praying to her in some direct fashion.

For that to happen, it seems to me that there must be extraordinary abilities on Mary’s part. Not only must she hear my prayers, but also she must have the ability to provide what I’m asking for–whether it be comfort, protection, guidance, etc. That is quite a lot of power.

The same question goes for saints. I’ve heard prayers to saints that are more than just requests for intercession; they are also requests for help, guidance, protection, and so on. Such prayers attribute to them, as to Mary, more than just the ability to hear the prayers; they attribute a certain level of power that comes all too close, in my mind, to deity. I ask God for protection and guidance and comfort because I know He is able to provide those things for me, and to do so adequately–indeed, above what I ask or think. If I were to ask Mary and saints to do the same for me, would that not entail my attributing to them god-like powers?

I can wrap my mind around images and pictures of Mary and the saints, since such depictions can be seen as reminders of people who lived holy lives and are, therefore, inspirations and reminders to us to live godly lives ourselves. Catholic practice, however, goes far beyond this, unless my observations above are wrong.

What is a Catholic response to this?

 

[EricFilmer]

Hello all,

As an evangelical who is exploring Catholicism, one of the areas I’ve had great difficulty with is praying to and devotion to saints.

I’m glad to hear of your interest in exploring what Catholics have to say about Catholicism. We often get misrepresented by others. Plus, as a convert to Catholicism from Protestantism, I think you have asked some very good and very important questions here. I will do what I can to hopefully shed some light on this.

If I am devoted to my family, it is because I have a relationship with them. Similarly, and more importantly, if I am devoted to Christ, it is because I have a relationship with Him.

The Bible teaches that we Christians are all one in the Body of Christ, and that the Church has Christ as its Head, and we as its body. Therefore, devotion to Christ (the Head of the Church) should likewise involve devotion to one another as Christians. Consider this intimacy and devotion along the lines of Christian fellowship, a concept that many Protestants believe to be an important aspect of Christian living. Because the body of Christ includes Christians on earth as well as Christians in heaven, we are simply extending the concept of Christian fellowship to include those in heaven.

I am not speaking of a vague, distance relationship but rather of an intimate one that involves ongoing, dynamic activity on the part of all involved. I speak to God, He hears me, consoles me, strengthens me, and so on. I draw near to God, and He draws near to me. I act, and God responds; God acts, and I respond. That is relationship. Thus, for me to have devotion to Mary, there must be some ongoing, mutual interaction between the two of us–more than just a one-way praying of Hail Marys on the Rosary. Otherwise what I end up with is devotion without a relationship, which is really quite impossible. Some Catholic prayers to Mary reflect this by including requests not only for intercession but also for protection. In other words, there is an expectation that Mary will interact with the one praying to her in some direct fashion.

Yes, Catholics believe that devotional prayers involving Mary are a way of expressing a relationship with her. We offer love and honor to Mary, and she loves us in return, giving us a mother’s nurturing and protection.

For that to happen, it seems to me that there must be extraordinary abilities on Mary’s part. Not only must she hear my prayers, but also she must have the ability to provide what I’m asking for–whether it be comfort, protection, guidance, etc. That is quite a lot of power.

To begin with, Catholics believe that Mary is the Mother of the Church. After all, as I mentioned before, the Bible says that there is one Church, with Christ as the Head and Christians as the body. Naturally, the mother of the Head of the Church is likewise the mother of the body.

Secondly, biological mothers are empowered by God to provide their children with all the things you mentioned: comfort, protection, and guidance. If the biological mother of a child is empowered by God to provide such things, then it makes sense to think that the Mother of the Church is also (and is able to love and nurture all the various Christians who make up the Church). Moreover, it is important to keep in mind that whatever Mary does for us originates with God. She does not create grace and send it to us, because grace does not exist apart from God (as a matter-of-fact, it would be a contradiction in terms to suggest otherwise, for grace is a participation in the divine life of God). Rather, Mary asks God to send us his grace and blessings (which, naturally, is also something that we on earth can do for one another).

The same question goes for saints. I’ve heard prayers to saints that are more than just requests for intercession; they are also requests for help, guidance, protection, and so on. Such prayers attribute to them, as to Mary, more than just the ability to hear the prayers; they attribute a certain level of power that comes all too close, in my mind, to deity.

Love, compassion, and charity all have their origins in God. Our biological siblings and personal friends are empowered by God to give us help, guidance and protection through acts of love, compassion and charity. If that is true in terms of our biological siblings, then so it is with our brothers and sisters in heaven (i.e., the saints). By the power of baptism, we become brothers and sisters of Christ, and therefore brothers and sisters to one another.

(Continued in my next post)

 

[EricFilmer]

(Continued…)

I ask God for protection and guidance and comfort because I know He is able to provide those things for me, and to do so adequately–indeed, above what I ask or think. If I were to ask Mary and saints to do the same for me, would that not entail my attributing to them god-like powers?

But doesn’t the protection, guidance and comfort you desire from God sometimes get channeled to you through other people? If a poor family prays to God for food, doesn’t such a prayer usually get answered in the form of a charitable donation from other people (who were inspired and empowered by God to help them)? The earth is a broken world where Christians are challenged to help others. Indeed, we are actually responsible for others (as the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats illustrates). Just because a Christian dies on earth and goes to heaven doesn’t mean that he is “off the clock” in terms of care and concern for those still on earth.

Moreover, the concept of asking Mary and the saints in heaven for help is an exercise in Christian virtue. After all, if I offer such prayers to them, then I am exercising the virtue of humility (because I recognize that I can’t do it all on my own, and need the help and support of others). If they answer my prayers (by interceding with God on my behalf) then they exercise the virtue of charity. The entire interaction is also an exercise in fellowship.

I can wrap my mind around images and pictures of Mary and the saints, since such depictions can be seen as reminders of people who lived holy lives and are, therefore, inspirations and reminders to us to live godly lives ourselves. Catholic practice, however, goes far beyond this, unless my observations above are wrong.

What is a Catholic response to this?

In addition to what I have stated in this thread, I ask that you also consider your question in light of how the Nicene Creed expresses belief “in the communion of saints.” Of course, the term “saint” has evolved over time among Christians, but regardless of how it is used, this part of the creed challenges us to be in a relationship with other Christians beyond our biological family and personal friends. Keep in mind that “communion” necessitates some sort of relationship.

 

[snarflemike]

The family life that God calls us to is full, complete, all-encompassing. Because we are fallen and trapped in time, we don’t see that, but those in heaven do. Just as you will have a far, far deeper relationship with God in heaven than you do with any family member here on earth, so you will have a far, far deeper relationship with each and every saint in heaven. Yes, they are somewhat distant to us now, but then so is God, compared to how it will be in heaven. But we can bring ourselves closer both to God and to the saints.

As to whether the saints can hear our prayers, Revelation 5:13 makes it clear that they can.

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

Not just one or two or ten PEOPLE, but EVERY CREATURE IN EXISTENCE!

As to whether they have any power to help us, of course all the power is God’s, but all of salvation history shows us that God grants the gifts of that power to humans (and to his angels). Did God part the Red Sea or did Moses? God did, of course, but through Moses.

Does God call on those in heaven to love us? If he does (and surely he does!), what good is love that is not acted out? And how can those in heaven act out their love for us? By praying for us, of course. By bringing our requests before God. And God may grant that his power then acts through those saints, just as it acted through the apostles. God delights when his children love each other and care for each other as he loves them and cares for them.

 

[Koineman]

(Continued…)
But doesn’t the protection, guidance and comfort you desire from God sometimes get channeled to you through other people? If a poor family prays to God for food, doesn’t such a prayer usually get answered in the form of a charitable donation from other people (who were inspired and empowered by God to help them)?

Yes, but in your example, God is the One doing the moving, using His almighty power to move the hearts of people to provide food. Are you saying that Mary has that same power to move in people’s hearts?

The earth is a broken world where Christians are challenged to help others. Indeed, we are actually responsible for others (as the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats illustrates). Just because a Christian dies on earth and goes to heaven doesn’t mean that he is “off the clock” in terms of care and concern for those still on earth.

I agree that just because someone has died and gone to heaven (or even Purgatory), they are still a part of the body of Christ, no less than when they were on earth. To go from that to the idea that such departed people have powers that are godlike seems like a leap to me. It’s like saying:

1. Departed Christians are still members of the body of Christ.
2. Therefore, they have supernatural powers.

I’m not trying to pick apart your answer or be belligerent; just pointing out where I have difficulty.

Moreover, the concept of asking Mary and the saints in heaven for help is an exercise in Christian virtue. After all, if I offer such prayers to them, then I am exercising the virtue of humility (because I recognize that I can’t do it all on my own, and need the help and support of others). If they answer my prayers (by interceding with God on my behalf) then they exercise the virtue of charity. The entire interaction is also an exercise in fellowship.

It isn’t asking others for intercessory prayer that I struggle with; it’s the idea that Mary and the saints can hear my prayers, and not only mine, but also the thousands (millions?) of others who pray to them on a daily basis.

In addition to what I have stated in this thread, I ask that you also consider your question in light of how the Nicene Creed expresses belief “in the communion of saints.” Of course, the term “saint” has evolved over time among Christians, but regardless of how it is used, this part of the creed challenges us to be in a relationship with other Christians beyond our biological family and personal friends. Keep in mind that “communion” necessitates some sort of relationship.

Yes, that’s true. I puzzle over what that relationship specifically involves.

 

[mikelionheart]

Very good question in the OP.

I have heard people talk as if they had a relationship with Mary or a saint. At first I was a little shocked but the more I thought about it the less I had an issue with it.

If we can have relationships with other people then why not with the saints?

Can we have a relationship with Satan? Does he manage to control and influence some people with whatever lies and tricks he can use?
I think so.

So, why not a relationship with a saint.

Of course, I presume you are worried that some people may supplant a relationship with God with one for a saint.
I don’t think this is likely and, possibly, not even possible.

 

[Koineman]

The family life that God calls us to is full, complete, all-encompassing.

This is a good point; thanks for making it. If it’s a full, complete family life, there is reason to believe that the communion of the saints involves real connections between us and the saints.

As to whether the saints can hear our prayers, Revelation 5:13 makes it clear that they can.

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

Not just one or two or ten PEOPLE, but EVERY CREATURE IN EXISTENCE!

Well, that verse is not too conclusive. John’s experience was unique because he was being given a vision to record and send to the churches, so it doesn’t have to mean that being able to hear every creature is an ability that everyone in heaven has.

As to whether they have any power to help us, of course all the power is God’s, but all of salvation history shows us that God grants the gifts of that power to humans (and to his angels). Did God part the Red Sea or did Moses? God did, of course, but through Moses.

True, and the same could be said of the apostles: People were healed through their ministry, but it was all God’s power doing the healing. Those are examples of God working through people on earth, though. Does He do that through those who are in heaven? I know He works through angels, but that is a different matter.

Does God call on those in heaven to love us? If he does (and surely he does!), what good is love that is not acted out? And how can those in heaven act out their love for us? By praying for us, of course. By bringing our requests before God. And God may grant that his power then acts through those saints, just as it acted through the apostles. God delights when his children love each other and care for each other as he loves them and cares for them.

It isn’t really their interceding that I struggle with, but the powers that are attributed to them.

 

[Neofight]

It isn’t asking others for intercessory prayer that I struggle with; it’s the idea that Mary and the saints can hear my prayers, and not only mine, but also the thousands (millions?) of others who pray to them on a daily basis.

How can you not struggle with intercessory, but doubt saints can hear prayer…if they intercede, they must hear, no?

 

[Koineman]

How can you not struggle with intercessory, but doubt saints can hear prayer…if they intercede, they must hear, no?

Couldn’t they pray in a general sense (e.g., the needs of all believers here on earth) rather than making specific prayer requests (for a particular need that Neofight has)? That wouldn’t require them to hear us.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

No, Mary does not have any power to answer your prayer and the Church has never taught that she has the power. In fact, the Blessed Mother does not have any power, on her own, to even hear your requests for intercession. However, we believe, and Scripture supports, that God permits those in heaven to hear our prayers. This is accomplished through His power. As an evangelical, I’m sure you don’t recognize Tobit as an inspired book of the Bible. But Catholics believe Tobit is inspired, and Tobit 12:12 reveals where the angel heard a prayer from Tobit and it was through the angel’s hands that the prayer was presented to God and answered by God. See, intercessors do not have the power, it is all God, but we believe that He permits them to intercede for us and He is more likely to answer the prayer that is presented by them, than one that is presented by us. Why? Because the prayers of the righteous avail much (James 5:16). Since a saint in heaven is fully purified (nothing unclean shall enter heaven–Rev 21:27) we consider them more righteous than we are. Thus, the prayers that are presented by them avail more than ones presented by those of us who are still sinning. It is still our prayer, but it is presented by whoever is interceding. In my view, all of our prayers are ultimately directed to God for only He has the power to answer prayer.

There are other reasons we believe in the special intercession of the Blessed Mother. This has to do with her being “Queen Mother” and having the power to intercede as did Solomon’s mother in Solomon’s court. Part of Catholic interpretation of Scripture relies upon the understanding of typology. St. Paul himself uses typology in comparing Adam to Christ in several passages. Well, we find typology very useful in our study of the Blessed Virgin. So, for example, Solomon’s mother was the queen mother and could intercede with him (the king) and he would not deny her. So, we see this as a “type” of Mary. We see Mary in the Ark of the Covenant and in other places.

But the bottom line to accepting the Catholic teaching on Mary and the saints is coming to understand that the Church has the authority and guidance from the Holy Spirit to teach as she does. Once one understands the authority that Jesus gave the Church everything else falls into place. But that is a topic for another thread, I’m sure.

Hope this helps.

 

[Koineman]

No, Mary does not have any power to answer your prayer and the Church has never taught that she has the power. In fact, the Blessed Mother does not have any power, on her own, to even hear your requests for intercession. However, we believe, and Scripture supports, that God permits those in heaven to hear our prayers. This is accomplished through His power.

Thanks for that explanation.

As an evangelical, I’m sure you don’t recognize Tobit as an inspired book of the Bible.

Not for most of my time as a Christian, but recently I have become open to the idea that the deuterocanonical books are inspired.

 

[catholic1seeks]

It isn’t asking others for intercessory prayer that I struggle with; it’s the idea that Mary and the saints can hear my prayers, and not only mine, but also the thousands (millions?) of others who pray to them on a daily basis.

It must be kept in mind that Heaven is very much a different reality than earthly existence. We do not know how time works in the afterlife. And remember, all saints except Mary do not have bodies in Heaven—so their “hearing” of prayers is not the same sensual hearing we know of on Earth. The saints do no hear our prayers in the same way we listen to others now, for they are pure spirits in Heaven. But God grants them the ability: because he is all powerful, he allows them to *know *(to “hear”) the prayers on Earth. We cannot begin to fathom how different and how glorious Heaven will be; we know eventually there will be a “new Heaven and a new Earth,” and our bodies will be transformed in the resurrection on the last day. Mary has undergone such a change already, as Christ willed that his Mother, the New Eve, would not experience the effects of sin but would transition into Heaven. So, ultimately, while we may be tempted to limit our views of Heaven through our existence now, we know much more is in store for our Heavenly experience.

You also said that the saints are god-like because it appears Catholics attribute certain powers to them. Although it would be helpful to our non-Catholic brothers and sisters and perhaps some less-informed Catholics, it is impractical to word holy cards in a very precise, theological way as to explain the way Earth/Heaven intercessory prayer works. Holy cards, for example, can seem to suggest that certain saints have certain powers of their own, based on the way they are worded. But one must understand their purpose. They are not meant to be technical, etc. (I use holy cards as an example, but the same concept could be used for speaking of saints casually also.)

As others have said, EVERYTHING comes from GOD. So, if I were to pray, “Saint Paul, protect me,” a theological understanding of the process would look like this: God would grant St. Paul the knowledge of the prayer request, Paul could pray, and through his intercession, I could be protected—but because of God, not because St. Paul had some special power.

 

[EricFilmer]

Yes, but in your example, God is the One doing the moving, using His almighty power to move the hearts of people to provide food. Are you saying that Mary has that same power to move in people’s hearts?

Actually what I am saying is that God often works through people, both people on earth and people in heaven. Mary is a person that God often works through. Just as a hungry impoverished man can pray to God for assistance and also look for people at a soup kitchen to feed him, so too can we pray to God for assistance and also include devotions to the saints in our spiritual practices.

But in terms of moving in people’s hearts, I think that Mary and the saints have the ability to inspire and influence us, and I say that because we on earth are able to inspire and influence one another. Mary and the saints would be able to do this in a much more powerful way. If they are working as instruments of the Holy Spirit, then this suggests the ability to effect us within our very hearts, minds and souls.

I agree that just because someone has died and gone to heaven (or even Purgatory), they are still a part of the body of Christ, no less than when they were on earth. To go from that to the idea that such departed people have powers that are godlike seems like a leap to me. It’s like saying:

1. Departed Christians are still members of the body of Christ.
2. Therefore, they have supernatural powers.

And yet when Christians enter into heaven, they, in a sense, actually do become “godlike.” This widespread notion in Christian theology (being taught in one way or another within Catholicism, Protestantism, and the Orthodox Churches) has many names: divinization, deification or theosis, referring to the transforming grace of God, a transformation which reaches its perfection in heaven. Of course, this perfection does not actually make people gods, so there is still a distinction between being the eternal living God and a human reaching the fullness of what God intends for human life. But as I pointed out earlier today, God empowers the saints to be channels of his grace, so it is not as if the saints have some sort of supernatural power in and of themselves. What they do for the sake of people on earth is simply a more perfected, more powerful version of the sort of things people still on earth can do for each other.

I’m not trying to pick apart your answer or be belligerent; just pointing out where I have difficulty.

Rest assured, I do not perceive any belligerence on your part. You are presenting reasonable questions.

It isn’t asking others for intercessory prayer that I struggle with; it’s the idea that Mary and the saints can hear my prayers, and not only mine, but also the thousands (millions?) of others who pray to them on a daily basis.

As the Bible teaches, all things are possible with God. The saints now dwell in an eternal realm where they are not bound by the constraints of time and space. If Mary is truly the Mother of the Church, then it is reasonable to conclude that that God empowers her to love, nurture and protect all the members of the Church as a mother. If the saints in heaven are our brothers and sisters, then it is reasonable to conclude that God empowers them to love and help us, who are their brothers and sisters on earth.

When I stand outside and look at the night sky, the limitations of time and space means that I am only able to gaze upon and contemplate one small group of stars at a time. My focus and attention is divided. But God could empower me to participate (at least to some degree) in his power of omnipotence, allowing me to simultaneously see and contemplate all of the stars in the sky, not just one small group. I imagine God empowers Mary and the saints in a manner like this, allowing them to simultaneously be in a relationship with millions of people.

Yes, that’s true. I puzzle over what that relationship specifically involves.

Yes, for those who accept the Nicene Creed, it is something to ponder. As I am sure you’ll agree, the various points presented in the creed not only express beliefs, but also a way of life. Simply put, our beliefs should be manifested in our actions.

 

[Cath4Romney]

Hello all,

As an evangelical who is exploring Catholicism, one of the areas I’ve had great difficulty with is praying to and devotion to saints.

I heard a priest on the radio this morning explain “devotion” to Mary, saying that it is like our devotion to family members. Just as it is all right for us to be devoted to a wife, husband, son, daughter, etc., the priest explained, so also it is fine for us to be devoted to Mary.

At first that made sense to me, but then it occurred to me that “devotion” in that sense entails intimate relationship. If I am devoted to my family, it is because I have a relationship with them. Similarly, and more importantly, if I am devoted to Christ, it is because I have a relationship with Him. I am not speaking of a vague, distance relationship but rather of an intimate one that involves ongoing, dynamic activity on the part of all involved. I speak to God, He hears me, consoles me, strengthens me, and so on. I draw near to God, and He draws near to me. I act, and God responds; God acts, and I respond. That is relationship. Thus, for me to have devotion to Mary, there must be some ongoing, mutual interaction between the two of us–more than just a one-way praying of Hail Marys on the Rosary. Otherwise what I end up with is devotion without a relationship, which is really quite impossible. Some Catholic prayers to Mary reflect this by including requests not only for intercession but also for protection. In other words, there is an expectation that Mary will interact with the one praying to her in some direct fashion.

For that to happen, it seems to me that there must be extraordinary abilities on Mary’s part. Not only must she hear my prayers, but also she must have the ability to provide what I’m asking for–whether it be comfort, protection, guidance, etc. That is quite a lot of power.

The same question goes for saints. I’ve heard prayers to saints that are more than just requests for intercession; they are also requests for help, guidance, protection, and so on. Such prayers attribute to them, as to Mary, more than just the ability to hear the prayers; they attribute a certain level of power that comes all too close, in my mind, to deity. I ask God for protection and guidance and comfort because I know He is able to provide those things for me, and to do so adequately–indeed, above what I ask or think. If I were to ask Mary and saints to do the same for me, would that not entail my attributing to them god-like powers?

I can wrap my mind around images and pictures of Mary and the saints, since such depictions can be seen as reminders of people who lived holy lives and are, therefore, inspirations and reminders to us to live godly lives ourselves. Catholic practice, however, goes far beyond this, unless my observations above are wrong.

What is a Catholic response to this?

This is all quite simple.

Imagine you go to a service and you get a bunch of people to pray for you and the prayer is answered. Who is responsible for the answered prayer? The people or God? God is, of course.

Likewise, if you ask Mary to pray for you and a wonderful thing happens, it is God who is responsible.

All you have to do is remember that the Body of Christ is not limited to people on earth, but rather it includes us on earth and those in heaven. So you can ask anyone to pray for you, be they a friend on earth, or Jhon, Peter, Paul, Mary, Matthew, or whoever.

Death does not seprate those who are part of the Body of Christ.

 

[pablope]

This is a good point; thanks for making it.

Well, that verse is not too conclusive. John’s experience was unique because he was being given a vision to record and send to the churches, so it doesn’t have to mean that being able to hear every creature is an ability that everyone in heaven has.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

It is written, i Matthew (sorry, forgot the chapter and verse)…that when in Heaven…those in heaven are like angels…get the attributes of angels…so those souls in heaven get to enjoy the powers granted by God to the angels.

 

[snarflemike]

It isn’t really their interceding that I struggle with, but the powers that are attributed to them.

We agree that God gives powers to his angels. We agree that He gives powers to sinners here on earth. Why would he specifically exclude giving powers to the perfected saints in heaven? I can think of no possible reason.

 

[Mintaka]

Bear in mind that, long before Jesus was born to Mary, it was already an accepted practice for Jewish people to go to the Tombs of the Patriarchs, Rachel’s Tomb, etc. and pray for the intercession of the OT patriarchs and matriarchs. Jewish people still do this today when they can, and there are other Jewish leaders who are accepted as such “saints” by a fair number of Jews.

So it’s not surprising that early Christians were very comfortable with asking martyrs to intercede for them with God, both before and after martyrdom. (And saints of other kinds too, once martyrdom wasn’t so common.)

Moving along…

Presumably you’ve often heard St. Paul’s comment about how we run the race and fight the good fight with a “cloud of witnesses”, a crowd of heavenly spectators. It’s not just angels; he’s talking about OT patriarchs and prophets right before that. If they can’t see you and hear you spiritually, it’s difficult to see how they could possibly be witnesses to how well you run.

 

[Aggies08]

Keep in mind, too, that the saints are united with the will of God.

Even if we ask, they won’t help with anything He doesn’t approve of!

 

[JonathonofOhio]

Hello all,
At first that made sense to me, but then it occurred to me that “devotion” in that sense entails intimate relationship. If I am devoted to my family, it is because I have a relationship with them. Similarly, and more importantly, if I am devoted to Christ, it is because I have a relationship with Him. I am not speaking of a vague, distance relationship but rather of an intimate one that involves ongoing, dynamic activity on the part of all involved. I speak to God, He hears me, consoles me, strengthens me, and so on. I draw near to God, and He draws near to me. I act, and God responds; God acts, and I respond. That is relationship. Thus, for me to have devotion to Mary, there must be some ongoing, mutual interaction between the two of us–more than just a one-way praying of Hail Marys on the Rosary. Otherwise what I end up with is devotion without a relationship, which is really quite impossible. Some Catholic prayers to Mary reflect this by including requests not only for intercession but also for protection. In other words, there is an expectation that Mary will interact with the one praying to her in some direct fashion.

I know you already had some good answers to all this, but I wanted to put in my 2 sense here

To the saints honour must be paid as friends of Christ, as sons and heirs of God: in the words of John the theologian and evangelist, As many as received Him, to them gave He power to became sons of God. John 1:12 So that they are no longer servants, but sons: and if sons, also heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ : and the Lord in the holy Gospels says to His apostles, You are My friends John 15:14 . Henceforth I call you not servants, for the servant knows not what his lord does. And further, if the Creator and Lord of all things is called also King of Kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 19:16 and God of Gods, surely also the saints are gods and lords and kings. For of these God is and is called God and Lord and King. For I am the God of Abraham, He said to Moses, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Exodus 3:6 And God made Moses a god to Pharaoh. Now I mean gods and kings and lords not in nature, but as rulers and masters of their passions, and as preserving a truthful likeness to the divine image according to which they were made (for the image of a king is also called king), and as being united to God of their own free-will and receiving Him as an indweller and becoming by grace through participation with Him what He is Himself by nature. Surely, then, the worshippers and friends and sons of God are to be held in honour? For the honour shown to the most thoughtful of fellow-servants is a proof of good feeling towards the common Master.

These are made treasuries and pure habitations of God: For I will dwell in them, said God, and walk in them, and I will be their God. The divine Scripture likewise says that the souls of the just are in God’s hand Wisdom 3:1 and death cannot lay hold of them. For death is rather the sleep of the saints than their death. For they travailed in this life and shall to the end , and Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints. What then, is more precious than to be in the hand of God? For God is Life and Light, and those who are in God’s hand are in life and light…

From Exposition of the Faith by St John of Damascus (676~754)
newadvent.org/fathers/3304.htm (Book IV/Chapter 15).

Since all are one body in Christ, join-heirs with Him, His friends, and light and life as He is light and life, you simply cannot have a relationship with Christ without also having a relationship with them.