Questions about Sacrament notations on Baptismal Certificates

[carmelitenovice]

Hello:

I have several questions about sacrament notations on the back of Baptismal Certificates. I have recently noticed that neither my baptismal certificate nor those of my young adult children have these notations. Because my children are now at the point of moving out of the family home, it seems to me it would be important to have the forms, but I am curious about the notations. I was asking around at the various parishes in question, but I seem to get conflicting answers, or perhaps I’m just not understanding them. So,

1. Are baptismal certificates (and/or their notations), legal documents (as in, submitting them as a form of identity (say, in lieu of a birth certificate)?
2. Should the parish administering a sacrament make the appropriate notation when the sacrament is indeed administered?
   2 a. If not, why not?
   2.b. If no notation was made at the time, what is the procedure for either getting it filled in or verifying that the sacrament was made? One parish told me it was the parish where the baptism was administered and that other parishes are supposed to notify the baptizing parish when other sacraments are given.
   2.c. When is the correct time for making such a notation? One parish told me it is only done if a parish needs the information (such as to prepare for a marriage) and it is to be made within six weeks of that parish requesting it. (If that’s correct I don’t understand it. It seems to me the notation should be made at the time of the Sacrament so the person would always have it on hand without a lot of back-and-forth from the various parishes.
   2.d. If a person prepared for a Sacrament (such as Confirmation) at one parish but because of unforeseen circumstances actually received the Sacrament at another parish, who records the sacrament and/or notates it on the Baptismal certificate? For example, my son’s grandfather passed away on what was to have been my son’s Confirmation Date. My son received the Sacrament at a neighboring parish two months later.

Thanks for clarifying these matters. I admit to being a bit hyper-concerned about all this record keeping. It’s for a good reason though. I was confirmed in the mid-'70s. Because our archbishop had endured a heart attack very shortly before my Confirmation Day (we all joked it was because of the thought of confirming the likes of me. ;D), I was actually administered the Sacrament by our then associate pastor, who later left the priesthood all togther. Years later, I discovered that the parish did not record my confirmation and only a few of my classmates. Those whose names were recorded were cited as receiving it from the archbishop even though it was by the associate pastor.

Thanks again and God bless.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

As far as I’m aware, there’s no “legal” status in terms of state/federal government for a Church document, but many are accepted as such anyway. It’s up to the government agencies to make that determination.

As for notations, your certificate is more or less a keepsake. The official records of the parish are what matter and where notations would be required. These are often large-volume books rather than individual sheets.

 

[Gorgias]

I have several questions about sacrament notations on the back of Baptismal Certificates. I have recently noticed that neither my baptismal certificate nor those of my young adult children have these notations.

No, of course not … if, by that, you mean the certificate issued at the time of baptism. (After all, back then you hadn’t yet received any other sacraments, right?)

1. Are baptismal certificates (and/or their notations), legal documents (as in, submitting them as a form of identity (say, in lieu of a birth certificate)?

I’ve run into situations in which certain governmental agencies have asked for them, in cases in which the appropriate civil documents are unavailable. In general, though, I’m not aware of any situations in which a civil authority would take a Church document as authoritative over the corresponding civil document.

1. Should the parish administering a sacrament make the appropriate notation when the sacrament is indeed administered?

There are sacramental registers in parishes for the various sacraments. However, if you are baptized at parish “A”, confirmed at parish “B”, and married at parish “C”, there will be:

• a marriage register at parish “C” noting the details of your marriage
• a confirmation register at parish “B” noting the details of your confirmation
• and notations in the baptismal register of parish “A”, for all three sacraments.

2.b. If no notation was made at the time, what is the procedure for either getting it filled in or verifying that the sacrament was made? One parish told me it was the parish where the baptism was administered and that other parishes are supposed to notify the baptizing parish when other sacraments are given.

Yes, they are. Call the parish where you were confirmed or married, and ask them to send a certificate of the sacrament to the parish (or diocesan archives) in whose baptismal register your baptism is recorded and in which you wish the notation to be made.

2.c. When is the correct time for making such a notation? One parish told me it is only done if a parish needs the information

Generally – practically speaking – that’s when it happens. That is, when the person who needs the parish holding the baptismal register to affirm the reception of the sacrament.

It seems to me the notation should be made at the time of the Sacrament so the person would always have it on hand without a lot of back-and-forth from the various parishes.

Generally, that’s when it happens. However… sometimes, mistakes are made or processes don’t happen the way they should.

2.d. If a person prepared for a Sacrament (such as Confirmation) at one parish but because of unforeseen circumstances actually received the Sacrament at another parish, who records the sacrament and/or notates it on the Baptismal certificate?

Generally, the parish where the sacrament is administered is responsible for recording it in their corresponding sacramental register, and notifies the parish of baptism of the information, so that they might include it as a notation in their baptismal register.

For example, my son’s grandfather passed away on what was to have been my son’s Confirmation Date. My son received the Sacrament at a neighboring parish two months later.

So, the parish in which the confirmation took place should notify the parish in which your son was baptized.

But, this is a good example: if the person who notified parishes took the info from an earlier list of confirmands, there’s the possibility that your son’s name wasn’t on that list… and, as a result, his name wasn’t communicated to his baptismal parish as having been confirmed. That error, then, wouldn’t get caught – until he wished to become a godparent, which should require documentation of his confirmation!

Years later, I discovered that the parish did not record my confirmation and only a few of my classmates.

There are processes in place to address these kinds of situations. Typically, they require you to show some sort of documentation or proof that you were confirmed (photos from the event, etc, etc.)

 

[PaulfromIowa]

1. Are baptismal certificates (and/or their notations), legal documents (as in, submitting them as a form of identity (say, in lieu of a birth certificate)?

Yes, baptismal certificates are sometimes used in place of birth certificates.

1. Should the parish administering a sacrament make the appropriate notation when the sacrament is indeed administered?
   2 a. If not, why not?

The baptismal certificate is kept by the parish where the baptism took place. If a person is confirmed or married at another parish, notice is to be sent to the parish holding the baptismal certificated so notation can be made.

2.d. If a person prepared for a Sacrament (such as Confirmation) at one parish but because of unforeseen circumstances actually received the Sacrament at another parish, who records the sacrament and/or notates it on the Baptismal certificate? For example, my son’s grandfather passed away on what was to have been my son’s Confirmation Date. My son received the Sacrament at a neighboring parish two months later.

See the above.

Canon law:

Can. 535 §1. Each parish is to have parochial registers, that is, those of baptisms, marriages, deaths, and others as prescribed by the conference of bishops or the diocesan bishop. The pastor is to see to it that these registers are accurately inscribed and carefully preserved.

§2. In the baptismal register are also to be noted confirmation and those things which pertain to the canonical status of the Christian faithful by reason of marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1133, of adoption, of the reception of sacred orders, of perpetual profession made in a religious institute, and of change of rite. These notations are always to be noted on a baptismal certificate.

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2015/03/26/canon-law-and-marriage-records/
“Canon Law and Marriage Records”

 

[pianistclare]

No, of course not … if, by that, you mean the certificate issued at the time of baptism. (After all, back then you hadn’t yet received any other sacraments, right?)

I’ve run into situations in which certain governmental agencies have asked for them, in cases in which the appropriate civil documents are unavailable. In general, though, I’m not aware of any situations in which a civil authority would take a Church document as authoritative over the corresponding civil document.

There are sacramental registers in parishes for the various sacraments. However, if you are baptized at parish “A”, confirmed at parish “B”, and married at parish “C”, there will be:

• a marriage register at parish “C” noting the details of your marriage
• a confirmation register at parish “B” noting the details of your confirmation
• and notations in the baptismal register of parish “A”, for all three sacraments.

Yes, they are. Call the parish where you were confirmed or married, and ask them to send a certificate of the sacrament to the parish (or diocesan archives) in whose baptismal register your baptism is recorded and in which you wish the notation to be made.

Generally – practically speaking – that’s when it happens. That is, when the person who needs the parish holding the baptismal register to affirm the reception of the sacrament.

Generally, that’s when it happens. However… sometimes, mistakes are made or processes don’t happen the way they should.

Generally, the parish where the sacrament is administered is responsible for recording it in their corresponding sacramental register, and notifies the parish of baptism of the information, so that they might include it as a notation in their baptismal register.

So, the parish in which the confirmation took place should notify the parish in which your son was baptized.

But, this is a good example: if the person who notified parishes took the info from an earlier list of confirmands, there’s the possibility that your son’s name wasn’t on that list… and, as a result, his name wasn’t communicated to his baptismal parish as having been confirmed. That error, then, wouldn’t get caught – until he wished to become a godparent, which should require documentation of his confirmation!

There are processes in place to address these kinds of situations. Typically, they require you to show some sort of documentation or proof that you were confirmed (photos from the event, etc, etc.)

YES, all of the above.

As a DRE I spent hours upon hours mailing and sending notifications to the Church of Baptism for the children who were Confirmed and received their First Holy Communion annually, not to mention updating the national database. If the parishes of Baptism has not updated the file, it is because they were not informed. I would contact each parish and ask if the records were updated, and informed.
Then ask them to get everything up to date.
This information will be critical when they decide to marry, be sponsors for other children or RCIA candidates, and even, up until death.
The info must be correct. But a Baptismal parish can’t guess what happened in anyone’s life. Take care of it now, while you are thinking about it.
Good luck!

 

[carmelitenovice]

Hello:

Thanks for all your responses. I guess I’m still confused:

Cor ad Cor said above: As for notations, your certificate is more or less a keepsake and Gorgias said above: No, of course not … if, by that, you mean the certificate issued at the time of baptism. (After all, back then you hadn’t yet received any other sacraments, right?)

If that’s the case, why is there even a space to notate other sacraments on the back of the baptismal certificate? It seems to me that would be an official-ish record to show subsequent parishes as needed.

also, PaulfromIowa said (note especially the last sentence), quoting canon law: §2. In the baptismal register are also to be noted confirmation and those things which pertain to the canonical status of the Christian faithful by reason of marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1133, of adoption, of the reception of sacred orders, of perpetual profession made in a religious institute, and of change of rite. **These notations are always to be noted on a baptismal certificate. **

It seems that in my case, several parishes dropped the ball in not noting the sacraments on the back of the baptismal certificates for me and my children. Am I reading that correctly? Should I go to the trouble of contacting those parishes to get the correct notations put on or not? As I said in my original post, my children are now starting to fly the nest and traveling cross country. It’d be easier to get those notations now while they are still in state.

Thanks again.

 

[carmelitenovice]

Another question:

I have the dates of when these various sacraments were administered to my children. If the baptismal certificate is indeed mainly meant as a keepsake, can I then fill in the information where indicated on the back of the baptismal certificate (there are indeed spaces to list First Communion, Confirmation, Marriage and Ordination), or does it have to filled in by a parish representative?

Thanks again.

 

[carmelitenovice]

@Pianist Clare:
Wait, there’s a national database? How does one access it to get one’s own information?

 

[1ke]

@Pianist Clare:
Wait, there’s a national database?

No.

How does one access it to get one’s own information?

One doesn’t.

 

[1ke]

Parishes maintain sacramental records of all sacraments that happen in their parish and send to the baptismal parish all sacraments conferred. The baptismal parish notates their sacramental register.

Certificates are indeed keepsakes. Parishes don’t keep certificates, they keep a record book.

There is no point in you having a baptismal certificate with notations, a parish will need one issued within six months if you are receiving a sacrament with them. They get it from the baptismal parish, not from you, and it needs to bear the parish seal.

As for why your keepsake certificate has space for notations, because those certificates are preprinted certificates parishes buy from various religious supply companies and they have the notation space on the back for whatever reason-- probably so the parish can use the same one for both purposes. In my case I have really pretty decorative ones I give out as keepsakes and the ones for parish business are in a tear off pad. My keepsake versions do not have the annotation space. But that’s just the certificates I happen to prefer buying.

 

[Casilda]

Another question:

I have the dates of when these various sacraments were administered to my children. If the baptismal certificate is indeed mainly meant as a keepsake, can I then fill in the information where indicated on the back of the baptismal certificate (there are indeed spaces to list First Communion, Confirmation, Marriage and Ordination), or does it have to filled in by a parish representative?

Thanks again.

Yes! I would do that so your children will have the record. My parents could not find my original baptismal record and it was requested when I was going to be confirmed and have my marriage blessed. But I need a CERTIFIED copy from the parish I was baptized at. ??? The original was WORTHLESS. Problem was the city I was born in has 25 active parishes. I was able to contact the parish where I had received FHC (not a recorded sacrament, btw) and they had notated my baptismal parish. Whew. Btw, after 6 months a certified copy becomes worthless once again. Keep your own records!

PS. I eventually found my original certificate. I now keep my own records in a file.

 

[pianistclare]

Another question:

I have the dates of when these various sacraments were administered to my children. If the baptismal certificate is indeed mainly meant as a keepsake, can I then fill in the information where indicated on the back of the baptismal certificate (there are indeed spaces to list First Communion, Confirmation, Marriage and Ordination), or does it have to filled in by a parish representative?

Thanks again.

NOOOOOOO, That is exactly why they insist on a FRESH copy.

 

[pianistclare]

No.

One doesn’t.

There most certainly is a national data base. Maybe some peoples parishes and Diocese do’t use it, but I just returned from the rolling out of the new format.

ParishSoft just migrated to ConnectNow. I can look up and see where families used to belong, who received Sacraments, where and when.
Staff can now upload their entire Sacramental rosters and have the computer will generate a standard certificate with all the information and all we have to do is place the seal.

It is only available to approved parish Staff, so no, not anyone can access it.

 

[PacificNorthwes]

Just wondering - if a couple gets married at a parish that neither of them are members of and they are just using the church building for the wedding and bringing their own priest, is the marriage still registered at that parish or at their own parish(es)?

 

[pianistclare]

Just wondering - if a couple gets married at a parish that neither of them are members of and they are just using the church building for the wedding and bringing their own priest, is the marriage still registered at that parish or at their own parish(es)?

It gets recorded at the place where it occurred. The priest may make his own personal notation back at his own parish, but the place of record is where it occurred.

 

[1ke]

There most certainly is a national data base.

parish soft family directory does connect to the diocese and can connect to others. We’ve been on parish soft for 7 years.

Firstly it is NOT a national database in the way you imply because (a) it is not actually national, it is one of several software packages for parish administration (b) it isn’t required to (name removed by moderator)ut sacramental records in it, and most importantly (c) it can NEVER be the source of sacrament record requests. Only the sacramental register can be.

Maybe some peoples parishes and Diocese do’t use it, but I just returned from the rolling out of the new format. [/wuote]

You are correct many parishes do not use it.

It is not “the” national database. It is “a” software platform. We looked at 3 vendors before selecting PS.

QUOTE=pianistclare;14815342]ParishSoft just migrated to ConnectNow.

No, they changed their product name to Connect Now to distinguish the SAS version from the desktop version of the software. Connect Now was a ledgers and payables package ParishSOFT bought, it was SAS. The family directory package was desktop, and when they migrated to SAS they took the Connect Now name for all packages.

Also parishsoft used to be an independent company but it was bought out by Ministry Brands, a software company that sells software for both Protestant and Catholic congregations.

I can look up and see where families used to belong, who received Sacraments, where and when.

For informational purposes only. You cannot use that as the sacramental record nor issue certificates (yes I know the system has that feature). I hope your diocese has been clear on that to everyone.

 

[1ke]

Just wondering - if a couple gets married at a parish that neither of them are members of and they are just using the church building for the wedding and bringing their own priest, is the marriage still registered at that parish or at their own parish(es)?

It is entered in the sacramental record book of the place the sacrament takes place, and that pastor sends record to the baptismal parishes of both parties for recording in their sacramental register in the baptismal notations.

 

[pianistclare]

parish soft family directory does connect to the diocese and can connect to others. We’ve been on parish soft for 7 years.

Firstly it is NOT a national database in the way you imply because (a) it is not actually national, it is one of several software packages for parish administration (b) it isn’t required to (name removed by moderator)ut sacramental records in it, and most importantly (c) it can NEVER be the source of sacrament record requests. Only the sacramental register can be.

No, they changed their product name to Connect Now to distinguish the SAS version from the desktop version of the software. Connect Now was a ledgers and payables package ParishSOFT bought, it was SAS. The family directory package was desktop, and when they migrated to SAS they took the Connect Now name for all packages.

Also parishsoft used to be an independent company but it was bought out by Ministry Brands, a software company that sells software for both Protestant and Catholic congregations.

For informational purposes only. You cannot use that as the sacramental record nor issue certificates (yes I know the system has that feature). I hope your diocese has been clear on that to everyone.

Sigh.
You just HAVE to correct everyone.
Actually, our trainer said we absolutely could use those printed certificates if we put the seal on them.

There are parishes in every state of the union on that database.

Whatever.

 

[1ke]

Sigh.
You just HAVE to correct everyone.
Actually, our trainer said we absolutely could use those printed certificates if we put the seal on them.

There are parishes in every state of the union on that database.

Whatever.

Your trainer is not the judicial vicar of your diocese. Your trainer is a Parishsoft employee.

Canon law governs the sacraments, not parishsoft training manuals. Can do and May do are not the same thing.

And parishsoft is NOT a national sacramental record database, so yes I will reply when something is being said that is not accurate.

 

[Usige]

There are parishes in every state of the union on that database.

While it is true that there are parishes from across the US, maybe only half of US parishes use that platform. When someone says there is a national database it implies that it is a central clearinghouse for all sacramental records which is not the case. While there might be a good chance that a particular record is there it is not a guaranteed nor a database of record.

Most diocesan policies I’ve seen are quite clear that electronic registers are supplemental and are not to replace the physical registers. Canon law requires the physical registers be maintained so updating any particular database is really just something that one might choose to do. I know when the Diocese does a review they don’t care what the software says and only look at the registers.