Questions about salvation issues mostly for this group, but non-trads are welcome too

[foolishmortal]

Some salvation questions more up this alley in the matter (no pun intended, I think) of the content.

If Confession gets rid of sins you are sorry for, but in fear of Hell, but otherwise, you need perfect contrition, doesn’t that make salvation for those outside the Church quite difficult? It’s not just a movement of the intellect, unless it’s moved by the Holy Spirit, of course. If you make the Bible your teacher and do things your church says is ok that is strictly forbidden in the Bible (like putting down your woman and taking up another), wouldn’t Protestants of the age of reason be responsible for what’s in the Bible? Most probably won’t be having contrition for doing that or approving of it.

Also, St. Gregory the Great said (as well as I remember) that living your calling is principle to your salvation. What happens if you get absolved in Confession before death, not having found and lived your vocation? I believe the teaching of church doctors and teachings from approved apparitions (at least the big ones like Lourdes and Fatima) are as good as gold, even if not having an anathema after it. The same goes for a teaching about an amount of mortal sins you are capable of making and being absolved of. The issues in this last paragraph is worrisome to one who is scrupulous. I know a sermon can’t include all kind of exceptions, but if you die, having sincerely, and with the right contrition, confessed all your sins, at least those remembered as mortal sins, don’t you still go to Heaven eventually?

Thank you!

 

[Luke65]

If Confession gets rid of sins you are sorry for, but in fear of Hell, but otherwise, you need perfect contrition, doesn’t that make salvation for those outside the Church quite difficult?

Quite right, so pray for those outside the Church that God give them the grace necessary for them to make a perfect contrition, especially at the hour of death.

It’s not just a movement of the intellect, unless it’s moved by the Holy Spirit, of course. If you make the Bible your teacher and do things your church says is ok that is strictly forbidden in the Bible (like putting down your woman and taking up another), wouldn’t Protestants of the age of reason be responsible for what’s in the Bible? Most probably won’t be having contrition for doing that or approving of it.

Yes, they will be judged by what they know, or should know (“invincible ignorance”), but just because it seems clear in the Bible to us, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily clear to somebody else - the Gospel is “veiled”, after all. That’s why we don’t judge - just correct.

Also, St. Gregory the Great said (as well as I remember) that living your calling is principle to your salvation. What happens if you get absolved in Confession before death, not having found and lived your vocation?

You will still be saved, but Purgatory…

“That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.” (Luke 12:47-48)

I believe the teaching of church doctors and teachings from approved apparitions (at least the big ones like Lourdes and Fatima) are as good as gold, even if not having an anathema after it. The same goes for a teaching about an amount of mortal sins you are capable of making and being absolved of. The issues in this last paragraph is worrisome to one who is scrupulous. I know a sermon can’t include all kind of exceptions, but if you die, having sincerely, and with the right contrition, confessed all your sins, at least those remembered as mortal sins, don’t you still go to Heaven eventually?

Thank you!

You will be saved! God forgives every single repented sin; of course, you need God’s grace to repent, so it’s not a good idea to continually reject His grace from the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51, Mark 3:29). But you already know that

 

[Shin]

Difficult? If you use the phrase ‘outside the Church’ Impossible barring last second entry, to which St. Vianney says, ‘As the tree falls, so shall it lie.’ though the exact minutiae of how this works is still being discussed to the point where it’s hard to understand.

If you don’t live your vocation you’re in great trouble… and I have heard more than once recently that anywhere from 33% to a majority of people are called to the religious life and not the secular, that it in fact is rather the norm of calling rather than the latter, God’s preference, and that to discern one’s vocation is more a matter of discerning that one would be called to a secular state rather than not called to a religious one.

In regards to the amount of mortal sins… the saying goes no one knows how many before God will no longer carry on, because you have made your decision and are as it were, living dead in this world, ready for Hell but for the fact that you are still alive.

The Catholic Encyclopedia has a good entry on perfect contrition.

If you’re scrupulous recall that if you go to Confession and sincerely repent, you’ve made a good Confession… Remember the prodigal son’s reception by God. The scrupulous often live in the trap of always being in the minor key, everything brings them down, and they focus on the down rather than the joy, they have to be more positive and receive more joy from God because without joy and hope you often do not have the strength not to sin and not to seek the pleasure you are lacking in sin. So the scrupulous need to remember that they have to be happier and focus on that so they have strength to serve God and appreciate Him in what He gives, knowing that they will be imperfect until they’ve worked through the many challenges ahead of them.

If you die, having etc… Yes you go to Heaven in time.

… I think we should all strive to make acts of perfect contrition or ones as close to it as we can throughout our lives… as well as reinstill within ourselves what real repentance and not just ‘I mean to do it’ repentance is.

 

[foolishmortal]

Thanks! BTW, Shin, I also have been into Japanese studies and have been there. Something about Kyoto made me really enjoy it (Kyoto), but I never got to Akita or Nagasaki, 2 historical Catholic places, though Hiroshima had a similar story of Catholic religious (Jesuits there) not getting killed or poisoned by the bomb.
I like the Franciscan stories and St. Maximillian Kolbe and Brother. “Zeno” were famous ones in at least, Nagasaki. Not Franciscan that I know are Sr. Sasagawa and St. Paul Miki and companions. This one named Endo (something) was, I think, Catholic, but I don’t recall if he were totally with the Faith or not. I wish I could have been in Nagasaki for the canonization.

Anyway, I figure, if your sins are total, you probably die without salvific grace, as being hardened or by accident.

 

[Shin]

‘hardened or by accident’ I like the way that’s put.

Yes, that would be the sin against the Holy Spirit, basically a permanent decision rejecting the grace of God. Human beings being as they are, it’s hard to tell when they’ve made permanent decisions for other human beings – but not for God who sees our entire lives as if they were already over, before they’ve begun.

A trip to Japan must’ve wonderful… My grandfather fought the Japanese in World War 2, was in the Philippines shortly before the bombs were dropped ending the war.

I’m not surprised Kolbe is famous there! He has quite a moving story and the ‘Knights of the Immaculata’ sound like just the sort of thing that would appeal to Japan. I love Japan for its culture and discipline and courtesy, and that despite all the problems of modern times they still have a better sense of men and women and many other things. We Catholics can find a lot of what we’re supposed to believe and live in our culture still existing over there.

I’ve always been curious as to who the favorite saints over there are, so I’m glad you named some names.

 

[PJM]

Some salvation questions more up this alley in the matter (no pun intended, I think) of the content.

If Confession gets rid of sins you are sorry for, but in fear of Hell, but otherwise, you need perfect contrition, doesn’t that make salvation for those outside the Church quite difficult?

Yes you are quite correct on the issue of difficulty. Still, salvation is possible outside the RCC with Christian Baptism, belief in Jesus Christ as God and Savior, obedience to the Commandments, and a life of charity.

It’s not just a movement of the intellect, unless it’s moved by the Holy Spirit, of course. If you make the Bible your teacher and do things your church says is ok that is strictly forbidden in the Bible (like putting down your woman and taking up another), wouldn’t Protestants of the age of reason be responsible for what’s in the Bible? Most probably won’t be having contrition for doing that or approving of it.

All peoples will be judged according to graces offered, graces accepted, knowledge offered, knowledge accepted and applied properly, obedience to the Moral law God wrote on our hearts, and issues of love and charity. Catholics will also be judged on Obediece to ALL of the teachings, doctrine, dogma’s and Sacred Traditions of the only Church actually founded by Jesus Himself.

“To those who are given more, more will be expected.”

Also, St. Gregory the Great said (as well as I remember) that living your calling is principle to your salvation. What happens if you get absolved in Confession before death, not having found and lived your vocation? I believe the teaching of church doctors and teachings from approved apparitions (at least the big ones like Lourdes and Fatima) are as good as gold, even if not having an anathema after it.

Ones advocation may not be one’s vocation, which is what ever you are employed at in the present time. Generally this would not effect poorly one’s salvation, unless God has made CLEAR and CERTAIN that you are being called to religious life, and you simply refuse to accept the call. Even this can be Confessed and Forgiven, but expect God to make your life difficult, if you reject Him.

What Gregory means is what *St. Theresa the Little Flower .:flowers: *so wonderfully demonistrated.

Anyone can at sometime do something Great and Wonderful. But most Saints, are Saints because they “loved well” and accepted each and every cross and challance God gave them, with humble obedience and love. That is how to become a saint!

The same goes for a teaching about an amount of mortal sins you are capable of making and being absolved of. The issues in this last paragraph is worrisome to one who is scrupulous. I know a sermon can’t include all kind of exceptions, but if you die, having sincerely, and with the right contrition, confessed all your sins, at least those remembered as mortal sins, don’t you still go to Heaven eventually?

:extrahappy: The good news is that ALL Confessed Sins, that are Confessed with the intent of (with God’s assistance)of not repeating them again, regardless of the number and severity of these sins, can and will be forgiven.

One needs to commit to avoid the “near occassion of sin” and make repairation as needed. One must also “do their Penance.”

There is NO limit on God’s Love and Mercy, when we sicerely repent and convert our lifes.:dancing:

Thank you!

 

[foolishmortal]

I’m sure St. Maximillian is to many still alive, but Bro. Zenon Zebrowski (sp?) was really their hero there, even though the other Franciscans helped him, as he was the leader. That was the case for the Japanese of all religious affiliations of the generations that experienced their help. Now, with the newer generations, I don’t know. It’s too bad the Catholics were persecuted for 300 years (a la the underground church, totally of The Faith, in China), were freed, though likely with some trouble fitting in, only to be bombed with nukes in under a century. Their country, like many in the history of the West, but not excluding others in the Far-East (the Khans and the Hans, for example), got too big for their britches in arrogance, got grossly abusive, and subsequently, eventually got their butts–(probably in over-expanding themselves, in the geopolitical sense) kicked The Catholics were likely spiritually prepared for death (as opposed to those in the womb), but it wiped out a good portion of the their population of Japan. I think the nation’s PM is Catholic, but don’t quote me on that.

On that note of salvation, thanks!