Questions about Satan

[rwillenborg]

1. Why can’t (or wont?) he be forgiven?
2. Christians are to love their enemies. Satan is our enemy. Therefore, should Christians love satan?
3. I’ve heard that people shouldn’t pray for satan. But certainly there are people praying for people who are already in hell, so, why shouldn’t people pray for satan to repent, too?

I’m sure these question sound snarky, especially number 2. They aren’t meant to be. I just don’t know how to put questions any other way. That being said, even if someone has a link to an old thread (I already did some looking) or to some other type of response, that would be most helpful.
These are just things I’ve been wondering about and any answers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Magnanimity]

Interesting questions, I think. You may want to consult the “angelic doctor” on this one. The answers to 1&3 are similar, I think. St Thomas Aquinas thought that, since angels (including Satan) are not temporal, deliberating beings like you and me, once the mind/will of an angel is made up, it is that way forever. Angels are fully actualized at the moment of their creation, if that Thomistic language means anything to you. So, won’t/can’t become the same basic question, as regards the forgiveness of fallen angels.

Also, there is a CS Lewis aspect to this argument. Lewis reasoned that if Hell is separation from God, then ultimately there will be no one in Hell (ever) who did not choose to be there (ie, choose to be away from God).

As regards your 2nd question, I suppose you’re thinking of the Sermon on the Mount? If so, remember that in that sermon Christ gave many general principles, like the one you note. However, a general principle has to be specifically applied to this or that case. In context, you would probably gather that Christ is talking about other men who persecute and revile Christians.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

First off the reason we are not allowed to pray for Satan and people in hell is becuase they commited the worst sin ever and that is sining against the Holy Spirit. The type of people who go to hell are people who see God and all his glory and reject his forgiveness. Satan saw God face to face and still rejected him which is the worst thing you can do and besides why pray for him when it wont work? Satan is defeated in the Book of revelation so that means are prayers are useless.

 

[bpbasilphx]

There’s a story of one of the Desert Fathers who had a demon visit him and ask how he could be saved.

God told the monk to tell the demon, “Simply say 3 times, ‘Forgive me, O Lord, and have mercy on me!’”

When given the message, the demon said, “I’ll NEVER say that!” and disappeared in a cloud of brimstone.

The point of this story is not that it’s historical, but theological. Demons REFUSE to repent and be forgiven and submit to God.

God’s mercy is infinite, but they refuse to submit to it.

 

[GEddie]

1. Why can’t (or wont?) he be forgiven?

Because he is an eternal being, and he was one when he sinned. We as human beings can repent because we have time to do it in; although that will come to an end when our life does. Whereas a choice made in eternity is, well, eternal.

1. Christians are to love their enemies. Satan is our enemy. Therefore, should Christians love satan?

One could say so; remembering that “love” does not per se mean warm soupy feelings, but a desire for the other’s wellbeing. We can love anyone in that respect.

1. I’ve heard that people shouldn’t pray for satan. But certainly there are people praying for people who are already in hell, so, why shouldn’t people pray for satan to repent, too?

The difference is that we do not know if any"body", i.e., human being, is in hell; and because we do not know, we are allowed, even encouraged, to pray for them. Whereas, it is a matter of faith that Satan is, or will be, in hell, and so it is pointless to pray for him.

I’m sure these question sound snarky, especially number 2. They aren’t meant to be. I just don’t know how to put questions any other way. That being said, even if someone has a link to an old thread (I already did some looking) or to some other type of response, that would be most helpful.
These are just things I’ve been wondering about and any answers would be greatly appreciated.

ICXC NIKA and Happy New Year!

 

[Magnanimity]

We’d probably do better to think of God alone as eternal, and put the angels in some sort of atemporal go-between state ( eg, aeviternity). Theologically, that’s probably safer ground…

 

[James_S_Saint]

Because he is an eternal being, and he was one when he sinned. We as human beings can repent because we have time to do it in; although that will come to an end when our life does. Whereas a choice made in eternity is, well, eternal.

Right.

Forgiveness is contingent on a change of heart. Satan is a conceptual being. If Satan changed his heart, his intentions, Satan wouldn’t be Satan. It is a bit like forgiving Communism. If Communism changed, it wouldn’t be Communism.

 

[rwillenborg]

Hmmm…good answers everyone, thank you!
And now I have some follow up questions.
I think, maybe the root of my questions are: what is hell, what’s an angel, and what’s love?
So, if I’m understanding correctly, the theology is that there is simply no point to praying for Satan for the following reasons.

1. It is very clearly shown in scripture that Satan is defeated. But, then, should anyone pray for Judas? Though it does not go into as much explicit detail, I seem to recall a verse where Jesus says that the person who will betray him, it would have been better had he not been born at all. I read that as a very clear indication that the man’s soul is in hell. So, would it be inappropriate to pray for Judas?
2. There’s no point due to the NATURE of an angel, versus that of a human. The nature of an angel is such that, (I’m working this out in my head here, so forgive me if it’s muddled) well, for an angel to change his mind, would be for the angel’s entire being to change. You would still continue to be you whether or not you decide to follow Jesus. But, if I’m understanding right, the very nature of an angel is that their mind is permanently made up.

Does that sound kind of right?

Also, it is my understanding that the belief is that angels are all-knowing, is that correct? And if that’s so, didn’t Lucifer know he would lose the fight against heaven? I mean, why even try? Why did Lucifer try to overthrow heaven? And how did he think that would even work? And how did he convince anyone else to fight alongside of him?

 

[James_S_Saint]

Love == devoted support
Angels are conceptual beings just as Satan, but I won’t get into detail.
Hell == I will that one totally up to the Catholics to answer.

 

[GEddie]

Hmmm…good answers everyone, thank you!
And now I have some follow up questions.
I think, maybe the root of my questions are: what is hell,

That’s the state in eternity (Ok, aeviternity; although that term requires its own thread to explain it) where one is exiled from GOD. Because GOD is the source of life (our LORD said HE was the way, the truth, and the LIFE), those in Hell are not alive; although one can be conscious in a “death” state that takes, well, eternity, to set in.

There is a great deal of mystery as to the extent and nature of “positive punishments” that occur in Hell. Basically, in Hell you are everlastingly dead. Like being executed, that is in itself the punishment.

what’s an angel,

They are bodiless beings/minds who were created before our world. They live in eternity/aeviternity and are therefore timeless. Because timeless, those of them who have sinned cannot repent, as there is no time for the mind to “wiggle around” in (repentance is a “change of mind”.) This is the same situation faced by deceased human beings.

and what’s love?

It is a desire for the other’s wellbeing. Sorry I don’t have a quote.

So, if I’m understanding correctly, the theology is that there is simply no point to praying for Satan for the following reasons.

1. It is very clearly shown in scripture that Satan is defeated. But, then, should anyone pray for Judas? Though it does not go into as much explicit detail, I seem to recall a verse where Jesus says that the person who will betray him, it would have been better had he not been born at all. I read that as a very clear indication that the man’s soul is in hell. So, would it be inappropriate to pray for Judas?

It sounds like that to me also, however, the Church has not declared him to be there; whereas thousands have been declared to be in Heaven (canonized Saints). So according to Faith, we simply do not know for him or any other human being.

1. There’s no point due to the NATURE of an angel, versus that of a human. The nature of an angel is such that, (I’m working this out in my head here, so forgive me if it’s muddled) well, for an angel to change his mind, would be for the angel’s entire being to change. You would still continue to be you whether or not you decide to follow Jesus. But, if I’m understanding right, the very nature of an angel is that their mind is permanently made up.

Does that sound kind of right?

Sounds good enough for me

Also, it is my understanding that the belief is that angels are all-knowing, is that correct? And if that’s so, didn’t Lucifer know he would lose the fight against heaven? I mean, why even try? Why did Lucifer try to overthrow heaven? And how did he think that would even work? And how did he convince anyone else to fight alongside of him?

Angels are smarter than we, because of their proximity to God in (avi)eternity. But they are not all knowing; only GOD is. For example, He sees inside our minds; angels do not.

Your remaining questions have to do with the mystery of mind versus will. One can “know” something intellectually and desire something else so powerfully that ones mind is overcome. We see that on occsion even in our fellow human beings.

ICXC NIKA and Happy New Year!