Questions about the concept of Predestination. Help needed please. Thanks! :)

[MidnightSun12]

What you are mentioning isn’t pre-destination, it is telling them the future. Telling them what the future holds isn’t creating that future for them. As I mentioned in my previous post, pre-destination implies that it was made to be that way. There is a difference between knowing the future and making the future. Does that make sense?

In telling person A the future, person B is telling person A something that is unavoidable, something that is going to happen because they have seen it happen or have been told by someone higher than them (God) that it will happen. This is not person B telling person A something that they are going to make happen or have altered situations so that it will happen.

Makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[bzkoss236]

Makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

You’re welcome! I’m glad my rambling made sense

 

[VikingGirlTBird]

hi vikingGirl, i think your idea of predestination is catholic theology strech till it was disfigured. Two words come to mind ‘reformed theogy’. What you teach is either exact calvinism or one of it variants. Catholic can relate to the all-knowing, seeing sovereign God but i certainly cant relate to the God who made puppets and called them humans. I believe he created man with some ability to chose, to turn to him, to turn away for him, i believe he pursues man again and again to help him realise his full potential, he predestined man, i dont believe he “predetermined” man.
i donot believe this, it makes God the “controller” of every bodies freewill. In essence it says when i sin God is reponsible because he is the controller, man seem to have a new excuse when he refuses to do what is right, the excuse is “GOD CAUSED IT”. I believe God sometimes allows evil for some good, but i dont believe in a all-loving God who controls everybody and controls some to offend him and control some to love him. And then he sends those he caused to offend him to hell. Well that God you seem to talk about is seem to lack justice, almost a sadist.
yeah, God can exercise control over human freewill, but having power to do something is not the same as exercising that power. For example I believe that God can(has the power) distroy the human soul but i dont believe he uses the power.
yeah he does, he the present past and future are “present” to God so he knows who and who will be saved (predestination) but i dont believe he chose from all time to control some to sin and others to virtue, i donot believe in predetermination.
i think you are confusing predestination for predetermination.
Peace

Hi Ubenedictus!

How are you?

What are the definitions of and the similarities and the differences between predestination and predetermination because the two words are extremely similar to eachother and every website I visit saids that they are the same thing? They almost always mention John Calvin, Calvinism, and Predestination. Also, predestining something is a form of predetermining something and visa versa. Can you please help me figure everything out please? I am confused! Thanks so much!

Definitions!

1. Omniscience - The state of being all knowing.
2. Omnipotence - The state of having unlimited power beyond the freedom to have the ability and possess and to execute this unlimited power.
3. Sovereignty - The state of having the highest limited power determined by the freedom to have the ability possess and to execute this limited power.

God is omniscient, meaning God is all knowing.
God is omnipotent, meaning God has unlimited power beyond his freedom to have the ability to possess and to execute his unlimited power…
God is sovereign, meaning God has the highest limited power determined by his freedom to have the ability to possess and execute his limited power.

Peace!

Love,
VikingGirlTBird!

 

[VikingGirlTBird]

Also, are my definitions for omniscience, omnipotence, sovereignty right/correct also? Just checking! Thanks!

 

[AdamP88]

God must have predestined everybody to either acheive salvation or damnation for everybody because he would be lying and would not be 100% sovereign if this was not true. He does not lie or change but, he always tells the truth and does not change. I can not see people believing in God’s sovereignty without believeing in predestination or believeing in one without the other.

God is all knowing and all powerful. However, God, the Almighty creator of the universe, intended to endow mankind with free will - the freedom to either embrace or reject Him. God can see the paths of our lives and knows where they lead. But we are at the helm so to speak. It is up to us to navigate the roads of good or evil.

Otherwise, why would Jesus die on the cross for the sins of mankind.

We are all free to accept or reject God. Just as Adam & Eve were free to accept or reject sin.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Sorry i haven’t been on the thread for sometime now. I hope you forgive my late reply

Hi Ubenedictus!

How are you?

i’m great, how are you?

What are the definitions of and the similarities and the differences between predestination and predetermination because the two words are extremely similar to eachother and every website I visit saids that they are the same thing? They almost always mention John Calvin, Calvinism, and Predestination. Also, predestining something is a form of predetermining something and visa versa. Can you please help me figure everything out please? I am confused! Thanks so much!

im not suprised protestants understand the words as meaning the same thing but for catholics it’s different. Regardless of what you may have heard, catholic believe in predestination, but they certainly undestand it differently. First and foremost predestination according to catholicism is a mystery hidden in God. That doesnt stop us from discussing that divine mystery, Take a look at this, it compares and contrast predestination in calvinism and catholicism. vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/08/12/predestination-in-catholicism/ notice predestination is defined in catholicism as a divine decree by which God owing to his infalliable prescience of the future has appointed and ordain from all eternity all event occuring in time especially events that concerns the human will. One thing that stands out when a catholic talks about predestination is the divine prescience, ominiscience, foreknowledge, in fact i think it also appear in rm8:29, infact i believe God predestines because he foreknew. So in lay mans term predestination in catholicism say God know those who will go to heaven and hell and ordains it so from all eternity because God has already forseen our response to his grace and he knows whether or not we will persevere till the end. Now that is what catholicism call predestination. Most protestants i have discussed with do not agree with my above definition, they think predestination mean God from all eternity has predetermined those to go to heaven and damned the others irrespective of the persons will, in essence God will force the “elect” to be saved, to my protestant friends grace is irrestible, God simply choses to save one (give him irrestible grace) damn the other (not give him grace). This idea my protestant friends believe is what i term “predetermination”. I dont believe God who wants all to be saved would give grace to some and not give to others that would be favouritism. There are variants of predetermination one variant says once the ‘elect’ has been given grace (saved) he is totally incapable of sin another says even if he is an unrepentant muderer he would go to
heaven nevertheless because God from all eternity has predetermined him for heaven irrespective of his unrepented sins.

Definitions!

1. Omniscience - The state of being all knowing.
2. Omnipotence - The state of having unlimited power beyond the freedom to have the ability and possess and to execute this unlimited power.
3. Sovereignty - The state of having the highest limited power determined by the freedom to have the ability possess and to execute this limited power.

God is omniscient, meaning God is all knowing.
God is omnipotent, meaning God has unlimited power beyond his freedom to have the ability to possess and to execute his unlimited power…
God is sovereign, meaning God has the highest limited power determined by his freedom to have the ability to possess and execute his limited power.

i have no problems with your definitions. But to posses power is not same as to use that power. I believe since God made man with an ability to share is love God also allowed man to chose, love is not forced it is given, it may be accepted or rejected, accepted like mary and st paul, rejected like adam and eve.

Peace!

Love,
VikingGirlTBird!

thanks, i hope you see my post. I would love to continue the discussion.
Peace