Questions for 7th Day Adventists

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kateyu said:
I was watching “Coming Home” last night on EWTN and heard from a former SDA that they are taught that Catholics will hunt down, torture and behead SDA’s in the last days (any minute now) for celebrating on Saturday! :eek: Also, that the “Prophetess” has taught that Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel. :confused:
My (adult)son has left the Catholic Church and joined the SDA.😦
What’s a mother to do?🤷

OK - that was actually 3 questions - I will take answers to any and all.
Thanks so much!
ktu
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I recommend you read the following book and give a copy to your son. I am pasting the info from one of my previous posts. I will also post a link to the thread because it has a lot of excellent resources listed.

** An Adventist and a Catholi**c by Paul Eirene. It is well-worth ordering and costs less than ten dollars. I recommend ordering several, so you will have them on hand to share. The book can be ordered from:

Ave Maria Press
P.O. Box 489, Sation U
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M8Z 5Y8

416-251-4245 or 1-800-663-Mary
Fax 416-253-0480

The ISBN number is 0-9684895-6-7

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108169

Sincerely,

Marai1212
 
Maria1212 said:
Here is another thread on Seventh Day Adventists and abortion. The Adventist Church permits abortion.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=155025&highlight=abortion+adventist

Sincerely,

Maria1212
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A thread of which was shown to be prejudiced and vindictive, of which points were ignored and vilified.

I don’t know what your national affiliation is Maria however, whether you be citizen of the U.S. or some other nationality you obviously do not understand what the Constitution of the United States means. So let me lay it down to you plan and simple.

The founding fathers of the United States recognized and emphasized that all men are created and are endowed with certain unalienable rights. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Persute (Sp) of happiness. These are God given ritghts, ultimately the right to choose, whether what they choose be for the good or for the bad wherein it pertains to the individual and does not impose itself on others.

God also grants these privilages (sp) of choice to his creations as well, be it angels or human. This is shown in scripture from the very beginning. He does not force us nor require us to choose right over wrong, had that been the case there would never have been a rebellion in Heaven, nor would Adam and Eve fallen to the wiles of Lucifer. We also have these choices, by our free will, that we are allowed to make, for the good or the bad, but these choices come with consequences also resulting in good or bad, “for as you sow, so shall you reap”.

We are instructed in scripture by the Apostles that we are to submit ourselves to the authority of those placed over us, both spiritually and secularly. Therefore when a government, and I will remind you that no government on earth exists without Gods consent, passes laws that grant the right for a person to choose to participate in an act that is deemed unGodly, then we as Christians must make a determination as to how we will react to those laws, but it is NOT for us to coerce or inhibit the participation of others who do not see as we see things. To do so is to go against those put in authority over us and thus to place ourselves against God’s divine plan. Who are we to question God?

Any entity that places itself in a position to which it forces all to follow its dictates and suppress individual conscious wars against God’s gift of freewill. It has been stated that we are granted freedoms by God but that those freedoms only pertain to those things which lead to doing the right things. In a sense this is correct, for by doing wrong we are enslaved to sin by doing wrong, but that does not preclude the fact that we are allowed by free will to choose to do wrong and to sin. We do this each and every day and anybody that denies this is a liar and thus sins, there is no way around this.

When you view the position concerning abortion by the SDA General Conference in this light you find that they actually recognize the sovereignty of God concerning freewill. Nowhere does it state that abortion is a automatic solution to pregnancy or that is should be used as a means of birth control. If you read the document correctly you will find that those who are considering abortion are to be counciled. It is the intent that the child should be carried to full term and that it be given the fullness of life that God has given it. However, it is also recognized that free will is imparted on all created beings and that the ultimate decision for committing such an act is placed entirely upon the individual to which the act pertains. Praying, fasting and counciling is vital before this decision can be made. Once the decision is made, whether for or against, the consequences are the only thing that remains. And we all must live with our choices.

Do not think that SDAs condone abortion, we do not, but to preserve the freedoms of all men, choices must be allowed, whether we agree with them or not.

May God Bless all.
 
sean(name removed by moderator) said:
I have an aquaintance who has fallen into the habit of asking me to run errands for her or perform favors for her on Fridays so she can observe the Sabbath and vespers. I have some questions about this:

Why is it acceptable for me to perform these requests, doesn’t that kind of defeat the Sabbath being the Sabbath if you ask someone from another faith tradition to do this work for you?
.
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when we lived in a largely Jewish neighborhood in Cleveland we commonly would do errands for our Jewish neighbors on the Sabbath, simply as an act of charity. They sometimes did the same for us on a Sunday. They had labor-saving devices in their homes, such as automatic timers for lights etc., to save them from having to operate a switch or appliance, for instance. Whether this violates the spirit of their own laws, I cannot say, but then again, that would not have been a concern of mine. Whether it was acceptable for me to do an act of charity when asked, I have no doubt whatever.
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
You can ask it now. The answer is the same as all the other protestant denominations as to why they practice and believe as they do…they follow the Bible and the Bible only. The SDA church in addition to the Bible, has a prophetess, who cleared up those questions…at least for some. It’s a long story.

God Bless All!!!
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Oh, about that Prophetess, didn’t Paul write something about women teaching in church?
 
ralphinal said:
Oh, about that Prophetess, didn’t Paul write something about women teaching in church?
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Like there weren’t female prophets in the time of the Apostles. You’re going to need a better argument than that.😉
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
Like there weren’t female prophets in the time of the Apostles. You’re going to need a better argument than that.😉
Click to expand...
Ah, but they were not given a postion equal to the Apostles. Paul makes it clear, as does Peter, that women are not to be teaching in the Church. In other words, over men.
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
A thread of which was shown to be prejudiced and vindictive, of which points were ignored and vilified.

I don’t know what your national affiliation is Maria however, whether you be citizen of the U.S. or some other nationality you obviously do not understand what the Constitution of the United States means. So let me lay it down to you plan and simple.

The founding fathers of the United States recognized and emphasized that all men are created and are endowed with certain unalienable rights. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Persute (Sp) of happiness. These are God given ritghts, ultimately the right to choose, whether what they choose be for the good or for the bad wherein it pertains to the individual and does not impose itself on others.

God also grants these privilages (sp) of choice to his creations as well, be it angels or human. This is shown in scripture from the very beginning. He does not force us nor require us to choose right over wrong, had that been the case there would never have been a rebellion in Heaven, nor would Adam and Eve fallen to the wiles of Lucifer. We also have these choices, by our free will, that we are allowed to make, for the good or the bad, but these choices come with consequences also resulting in good or bad, “for as you sow, so shall you reap”.

We are instructed in scripture by the Apostles that we are to submit ourselves to the authority of those placed over us, both spiritually and secularly. Therefore when a government, and I will remind you that no government on earth exists without Gods consent, passes laws that grant the right for a person to choose to participate in an act that is deemed unGodly, then we as Christians must make a determination as to how we will react to those laws, but it is NOT for us to coerce or inhibit the participation of others who do not see as we see things. To do so is to go against those put in authority over us and thus to place ourselves against God’s divine plan. Who are we to question God?

Any entity that places itself in a position to which it forces all to follow its dictates and suppress individual conscious wars against God’s gift of freewill. It has been stated that we are granted freedoms by God but that those freedoms only pertain to those things which lead to doing the right things. In a sense this is correct, for by doing wrong we are enslaved to sin by doing wrong, but that does not preclude the fact that we are allowed by free will to choose to do wrong and to sin. We do this each and every day and anybody that denies this is a liar and thus sins, there is no way around this.

When you view the position concerning abortion by the SDA General Conference in this light you find that they actually recognize the sovereignty of God concerning freewill. Nowhere does it state that abortion is a automatic solution to pregnancy or that is should be used as a means of birth control. If you read the document correctly you will find that those who are considering abortion are to be counciled. It is the intent that the child should be carried to full term and that it be given the fullness of life that God has given it. However, it is also recognized that free will is imparted on all created beings and that the ultimate decision for committing such an act is placed entirely upon the individual to which the act pertains. Praying, fasting and counciling is vital before this decision can be made. Once the decision is made, whether for or against, the consequences are the only thing that remains. And we all must live with our choices.

Do not think that SDAs condone abortion, we do not, but to preserve the freedoms of all men, choices must be allowed, whether we agree with them or not.

May God Bless all.
Click to expand...
Hi SabbathKeeper,

As a U.S. citizen, I do not agree with your assessment of either the U.S. Constitution or the Bible regarding “choice”. While both acknowledge that people make choices, both place limits and constraints on “choices” for the good of those governed by both documents.

Neither support a man’s choice to rape a woman, murder a neighbor, nor steal another’s property…even though a man is “free” to make any of those choices.

In each of those cases, preventing, rather than trying to persuade, the person from committing those acts seems the prudent choice.

The same holds true for preventing the murder of the unborn.

While I would not consider the SDA church position on abortion to be a pro-life position (and I believe any pro-life organization would agree), my concern is mostly with SDA hospitals which perform many many abortions.

Why are the hospitals so out of line with the SDA church’s position regarding abortion?

God bless all!!!
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
Do not think that SDAs condone abortion, we do not, but to preserve the freedoms of all men, choices must be allowed, whether we agree with them or not.

May God Bless all.
Click to expand...
To all reading this thread…

I was told the same thing when I worte to a SDA Union President regarding abortions in SDA hospitals. It was ironic that at the time the Union President told me the same thing, he had articles in “The Adventist Review” urging church memebers to write to President William Jefferson Clinton for stronger anti-tobacco legislation due to the fact that “nearly 400,000 deaths occur annually as a result of this insidius drug”.

What happened to preserving freedom by allowing choices in that situation? There are nearly 4 times that number of deaths each year resulting from abortion…approximately 1, 600, 000 in the United States of America.

I am planning to include my correspondence between the Union and General Conference presidents as an appendix in a book project, so I won’t include that here…but it is eye opening to say the least.

What I will include here, instead of waiting for the book, are the resutls of my research on abortion statistics for three SDA hospitlas in the period of 1991-1993. These statistics were obtained from the St. Paul Computer Center, Inc. in Glenn Burnie Maryland. They were repository of quite a few databases, two of which included:
  1. Maryland Acute Care (name removed by moderator)atient Data
  2. Maryland Outpatient Ambulatory Surgery Data.
The following are the number of abortions performed in 1991-1992 by Diagnosis Related Group (DRG) codes 380 and 381
DRG 380 is Abortion without D&C
DRG 381 is Abortion without D&C, Abortion by Aspiration Curettage, or Abortion by Hysterotomy

Washington Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 41abortions
DRG 381 = 506 abortions

Shady Grove Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 53 abortions
DRG 381 = 999 abortions

Leland Memorial Hospital (has since closed I believe):
DRG 380 = 11
DRG 381 = 88

Total income from the above procedures = $1,859,167.00 (U.S. dollars)

The following are the number of abortions performed up to June of 1993. There were no data available for July thourgh December 1993 at that time.

Washington Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 21 abortions
DRG 381 = 266 abortions

Shady Grove Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 20
DRG 381 = 391

These cannot possibly be “medically necessary” procedures, espeically when contrasted with two area public secular hospitals in Farifax and Arlington Virginia which performed less than 50 abortions each in each year noted above.

To my SDA friends, especially the ones who say they are against abortion, what is going on?

God bless all!!!
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
A thread of which was shown to be prejudiced and vindictive, of which points were ignored and vilified.

I don’t know what your national affiliation is Maria however, whether you be citizen of the U.S. or some other nationality you obviously do not understand what the Constitution of the United States means. So let me lay it down to you plan and simple.

The founding fathers of the United States recognized and emphasized that all men are created and are endowed with certain unalienable rights. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Persute (Sp) of happiness. These are God given ritghts, ultimately the right to choose, whether what they choose be for the good or for the bad wherein it pertains to the individual and does not impose itself on others.

God also grants these privilages (sp) of choice to his creations as well, be it angels or human. This is shown in scripture from the very beginning. He does not force us nor require us to choose right over wrong, had that been the case there would never have been a rebellion in Heaven, nor would Adam and Eve fallen to the wiles of Lucifer. We also have these choices, by our free will, that we are allowed to make, for the good or the bad, but these choices come with consequences also resulting in good or bad, “for as you sow, so shall you reap”.

We are instructed in scripture by the Apostles that we are to submit ourselves to the authority of those placed over us, both spiritually and secularly. Therefore when a government, and I will remind you that no government on earth exists without Gods consent, passes laws that grant the right for a person to choose to participate in an act that is deemed unGodly, then we as Christians must make a determination as to how we will react to those laws, but it is NOT for us to coerce or inhibit the participation of others who do not see as we see things. To do so is to go against those put in authority over us and thus to place ourselves against God’s divine plan. Who are we to question God?

Any entity that places itself in a position to which it forces all to follow its dictates and suppress individual conscious wars against God’s gift of freewill. It has been stated that we are granted freedoms by God but that those freedoms only pertain to those things which lead to doing the right things. In a sense this is correct, for by doing wrong we are enslaved to sin by doing wrong, but that does not preclude the fact that we are allowed by free will to choose to do wrong and to sin. We do this each and every day and anybody that denies this is a liar and thus sins, there is no way around this.

When you view the position concerning abortion by the SDA General Conference in this light you find that they actually recognize the sovereignty of God concerning freewill. Nowhere does it state that abortion is a automatic solution to pregnancy or that is should be used as a means of birth control. If you read the document correctly you will find that those who are considering abortion are to be counciled. It is the intent that the child should be carried to full term and that it be given the fullness of life that God has given it. However, it is also recognized that free will is imparted on all created beings and that the ultimate decision for committing such an act is placed entirely upon the individual to which the act pertains. Praying, fasting and counciling is vital before this decision can be made. Once the decision is made, whether for or against, the consequences are the only thing that remains. And we all must live with our choices.

Do not think that SDAs condone abortion, we do not, but to preserve the freedoms of all men, choices must be allowed, whether we agree with them or not.

May God Bless all.
Click to expand...
Dear Sabbath Keeper,

I will respond to your message in fuller detail later. As I am recovering from eye surgery, the amount of time I spend on the computer is limited, so it may take me awhile to respond. But in the interim, I would like to note that free will does not mean it is acceptable to commit murder of unborn children. Moreover, praying, fasting, and counseling do not make it okay to terminate the life of an unborn baby.

Moreover, the action of abortion is not the sole responsibility of the woman who chooses to have one. Doctors who perform abortions, hospitals who permit abortion, and those who promote abortion as a choice, among others, also bear responsibility, in my opinion.

I will write again once I am able to spend more time online so I can give you a more detailed response that your post deserves.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
To all reading this thread…

I was told the same thing when I worte to a SDA Union President regarding abortions in SDA hospitals. It was ironic that at the time the Union President told me the same thing, he had articles in “The Adventist Review” urging church memebers to write to President William Jefferson Clinton for stronger anti-tobacco legislation due to the fact that “nearly 400,000 deaths occur annually as a result of this insidius drug”.

What happened to preserving freedom by allowing choices in that situation? There are nearly 4 times that number of deaths each year resulting from abortion…approximately 1, 600, 000 in the United States of America.

I am planning to include my correspondence between the Union and General Conference presidents as an appendix in a book project, so I won’t include that here…but it is eye opening to say the least.

What I will include here, instead of waiting for the book, are the resutls of my research on abortion statistics for three SDA hospitlas in the period of 1991-1993. These statistics were obtained from the St. Paul Computer Center, Inc. in Glenn Burnie Maryland. They were repository of quite a few databases, two of which included:
  1. Maryland Acute Care (name removed by moderator)atient Data
  2. Maryland Outpatient Ambulatory Surgery Data.
The following are the number of abortions performed in 1991-1992 by Diagnosis Related Group (DRG) codes 380 and 381
DRG 380 is Abortion without D&C
DRG 381 is Abortion without D&C, Abortion by Aspiration Curettage, or Abortion by Hysterotomy

Washington Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 41abortions
DRG 381 = 506 abortions

Shady Grove Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 53 abortions
DRG 381 = 999 abortions

Leland Memorial Hospital (has since closed I believe):
DRG 380 = 11
DRG 381 = 88

Total income from the above procedures = $1,859,167.00 (U.S. dollars)

The following are the number of abortions performed up to June of 1993. There were no data available for July thourgh December 1993 at that time.

Washington Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 21 abortions
DRG 381 = 266 abortions

Shady Grove Adventist Hospital:
DRG 380 = 20
DRG 381 = 391

These cannot possibly be “medically necessary” procedures, espeically when contrasted with two area public secular hospitals in Farifax and Arlington Virginia which performed less than 50 abortions each in each year noted above.

To my SDA friends, especially the ones who say they are against abortion, what is going on?

God bless all!!!
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to post such detailed statistics. I had no idea the numbers would be so high. I wonder why they are so much higher than the secular hospitals in Fairfax and Arlington.

Please let us know when your book is available. I would like to read it.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Maria1212 said:
Dear Sabbath Keeper,

I will respond to your message in fuller detail later. As I am recovering from eye surgery, the amount of time I spend on the computer is limited, so it may take me awhile to respond. But in the interim, I would like to note that free will does not mean it is acceptable to commit murder of unborn children. Moreover, praying, fasting, and counseling do not make it okay to terminate the life of an unborn baby.

Moreover, the action of abortion is not the sole responsibility of the woman who chooses to have one. Doctors who perform abortions, hospitals who permit abortion, and those who promote abortion as a choice, among others, also bear responsibility, in my opinion.

I will write again once I am able to spend more time online so I can give you a more detailed response that your post deserves.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Click to expand...
Waiting with baited breathe.
 
Maria1212 said:
Thank you for taking the time to post such detailed statistics. I had no idea the numbers would be so high. I wonder why they are so much higher than the secular hospitals in Fairfax and Arlington.

Please let us know when your book is available. I would like to read it.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Click to expand...
Hi Maria1212,

My first thought on the discrepancy would be the difference in policies regarding abortion in the various hospitals.

The secular hospitals had a policy of only performing abortions to save the life of the mother.

And my second thought would be that when you have a flexible policy regarding abortion, the income from the procedures should be a variable to consider. High income and rarely ever any lawsuits or malpractice claims.

God bless all!!!
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
The founding fathers of the United States recognized and emphasized that all men are created and are endowed with certain unalienable rights. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Persute (Sp) of happiness. These are God given ritghts, ultimately the right to choose, whether what they choose be for the good or for the bad wherein it pertains to the individual and does not impose itself on others.
Click to expand...
But abortion is the impostion of one or more person’s will/choice to take away the right to life…the first right stated of those God endowed unalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

So the question is, are these rights extended to the unborn based on the Founder’s documents? The preamble to the Constitution of the United States says:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

To state that the law of the land in the U.S. was to secure the Blessing of Liberty to our Posterity, implies that future, yet unborn citizens, were to be protected by our nation’s laws.

God bless all!!!
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
But abortion is the impostion of one or more person’s will/choice to take away the right to life…the first right stated of those God endowed unalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

So the question is, are these rights extended to the unborn based on the Founder’s documents? The preamble to the Constitution of the United States says:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

To state that the law of the land in the U.S. was to secure the Blessing of Liberty to our Posterity, implies that future, yet unborn citizens, were to be protected by our nation’s laws.

God bless all!!!
Click to expand...
Ok Pat, think back to the time of the founding fathers. Do you really think they were contemplating the abortion issue at the time? When they were speaking of preserving and securing the Blessings of Liberty wouldn’t it be more reasonable to consider they were talking about people that were actually walking on this earth at that time. And when they refer to “prosterity”, that they would be referring to those who would be born out of the womb, actually breathing, as they understood it in their day and age. As has been expressed to me so often on these forum, we must look at what has been written in relation to when it was written. To try and put something from the past into a context of the present only causes distortion.
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
Ok Pat, think back to the time of the founding fathers. Do you really think they were contemplating the abortion issue at the time? When they were speaking of preserving and securing the Blessings of Liberty wouldn’t it be more reasonable to consider they were talking about people that were actually walking on this earth at that time. And when they refer to “prosterity”, that they would be referring to those who would be born out of the womb, actually breathing, as they understood it in their day and age. As has been expressed to me so often on these forum, we must look at what has been written in relation to when it was written. To try and put something from the past into a context of the present only causes distortion.
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Hi SabbathKeeper,

Having read the founding fathers’ writing more extensively than I have the Church Fathers, I would have to say that they were not considering the abortion issue of our time. And they were probably not considering that issue because of their morals. I think they would be shocked by many of the “issues” of our day and age.

And I think, when they were talking about securing the blessings of Liberty for us and for our posterity, they were talking about all future citizens…who were yet to be born…without the expectation that future citizens would be prohibited from being born, or having their life taken away before they could be born. Even a criminal has the right to due process of the law before he is sentenced to death. This is not an opportunity afforded to the unborn.

It is the idea of ending life in the womb by abortion that was foreign to them in their day and age. Unfortunately we, in this day and age have embraced it whole heartedly.

God bless all!!!
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
It is the idea of ending life in the womb by abortion that was foreign to them in their day and age. Unfortunately we, in this day and age have embraced it whole heartedly.
Click to expand...
Amen! I am sure that the Founding Fathers would be appalled at what has been deemed “constitutional or unconstitutional.” Any church that condones abortion or euthanasia is not of God, but instead is of the Evil One. IMHO the SDA “church” is an anti-Catholic, non-Christian cult. Full stop.
Click to expand...
 
hosemonkey said:
Amen! I am sure that the Founding Fathers would be appalled at what has been deemed “constitutional or unconstitutional.” Any church that condones abortion or euthanasia is not of God, but instead is of the Evil One. IMHO the SDA “church” is an anti-Catholic, non-Christian cult. Full stop.
Click to expand...
Adventists are anti-Catholic but the Catholic Church does not consider them a cult and they are Christian.

*By virtue of their valid baptism, and their belief in Christ’s divinity and in the doctrine of the Trinity, Seventh-Day Adventists are both ontologically and theologically Christians. But Christians, once separated from the Church our Lord founded, are susceptible to being “tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine” *(Eph. 4:14).

The text is taken from the CAF tract at the following link. catholic.com/library/Seve…_Adventism.asp

The CAF library has excellent resources on Adventism.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
Hi SabbathKeeper,

Having read the founding fathers’ writing more extensively than I have the Church Fathers, I would have to say that they were not considering the abortion issue of our time. And they were probably not considering that issue because of their morals. I think they would be shocked by many of the “issues” of our day and age.

And I think, when they were talking about securing the blessings of Liberty for us and for our posterity, they were talking about all future citizens…who were yet to be born…without the expectation that future citizens would be prohibited from being born, or having their life taken away before they could be born. Even a criminal has the right to due process of the law before he is sentenced to death. This is not an opportunity afforded to the unborn.

It is the idea of ending life in the womb by abortion that was foreign to them in their day and age. Unfortunately we, in this day and age have embraced it whole heartedly.

God bless all!!!
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should google “History of Abortion” then click on Wikapedia. You might get an eye opener.
 
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