Questions for any Protestants

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robwar said:
First of all Catholic priests don’t claim this power. The ability to forgive sins “persona Christi” is part of the priestly ordination and anointing of that office. A majority of Protestantism has s different view than the Catholic/Orthodox and including our Anglican and Lutheran friends that have already commented in that Protestantism believes in the priesthood of all believers, therefore the sacramental view of the priesthood is not found. Likewise, a majority of Protestantism emphasizes the believer one on one relationship with God. Considering these two views priesthood of all believers and non-sacrimental pastors and ministers, they do not believe and support the sacrament of confession. If one sins, they simple would say go to God and ask for forgiveness. The verses that mention Jesus breathing on the disciples to forgive sins etc are ignored.
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Yes they do, they have the power to forgive sins in the name of Jesus as I stated. And they also have the power to retain them in his name also.
 
whatsmyname said:
I never would have asked my Protestant pastor that because I believed my sins were already forgiven by God. It never would have occurred to me to ask a human to forgive my sins when God had already done so by dying on the cross.
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Oh, see I was taught that by his death and resurrection he made it Possible for all sins to be forgiven.

I was also taught that not all sins are forgiven. Some are forgiven and some are held bound.

Why do you think Jesus told the Apostles all power of heaven and earth has been given to me, and now I give that power to you. Go and forgive sins in my name, and whose sin you hold bound is bound? Were the Apostles not human?

What do you feel his reasoning was for that, if he forgave all sin by the cross. And if all sin is paid by the cross why would he tell the Apostles they can hold some sin bound? Do we not have a contradiction here?
 
moonbase1 said:
well it is easy-- one you understand the Gospel of Grace-

but many people are taught error- – and memorize dogma- doctrine- and religious tradition

as Saint Paul

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some …

Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith … shall depart from the faith, listening to spirits of error and doctrines of demons; … who foretold that false prophets would arise and deceive many; or in some of … in later of paying says some Spirit spirits taught that The things times to will

and saint paul taught on the

“The Ministry of Reconciliation…The Ministry of Reconciliation.”

Many pastors and many preachers seem to be struggling and groping to find or form a clear statement and direction for their ministry. Perhaps we’ve asked the questions that need not to be asked, such as…what is the preacher’s mission?..what is the preacher’s priority?..because here it is to abundantly clear what the answer to those questions really is. In spite of the clarity with which Scripture preaches its message to us about the priority for our message, we have an almost endless variety of suggestions about methods and means and strategies and styles and approaches to ministry. And sometimes we can get caught up in that to the degree that we miss the main thing. The main thing is distinctively articulated in this passage.

In fact, it’s a very simple passage. It’s not a complex one. It’s not particularly difficult to interpret, to discern, or to apply. It is definitive in every sense. It lays down for us what the objective and goal and priority of our life and ministry has to be. It delineates for us our responsibility in the world before us, as we represent the Lord Jesus Christ and it does so in no uncertain terms.

Let me read to you this great text, and you follow along. Starting in verse 18. “Now all these things are from God who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

and finally-- ctholics are taught on the Old testement – gifts of the spirit Isah 11;1-7–

which is the charastic of the massiah the Prophet–

and Saint Paul teaches and demenstrates-- the 9+ gifts of the Spirit with Born Again christians function in–

and finally as Saint Paul says-- when you come together (a church) assembly

1 Corinthians 14:26 Parallel: How is it then, brethren? when …

Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, a teaching, … each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation.

but the catholic church has invented a man made – ceremony – mass- that makes the claim you get special grace-- and – that or breaking of bread is “the real presence”

1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

1Co 11:32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Thankfully, I was wrong.
This passage above must be one of the most abused and misunderstood passages in the entire Bible.

It is regularly used to deny communion to those who need and it is frightening to 10 year olds.

As we will see, it is one of the most liberating scriptures in the Bible, yet many believers are condemned by it.

Doesn’t this seem a bit odd to you? After all, this passage was written by

the same apostle who said,

“there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.”

So what’s going on here? Did Paul have a change of heart? Is he now saying that God will condemn us if we partake of communion in an unworthy manner? No he is not.
For if we would judge (diakrino) ourselves, we should not be judged (krino).

But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned (katakrino) with the world. (KJV)

Mark 13:34: “For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left
his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and
commanded the porter to watch.”

He gave AUTHORITY to his servants and to
every man his work.

Authority means the right to command obedience, the right to
enforce obedience, and the right to act officially.

Christ had authority over
sickness and the devil. He had the right to command the sickness to leave and the
devil had to obey. He had the right to enforce obedience, and He had the right to
act in the official capacity as the Son of God.
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It is not something that a Priest misuses to frighten ten year olds. It is the word of God as you quoted in Cor.

The Catholic Church is not who instituted the Last Supper it was Jesus.
 
rinnie said:
Thanks ASLAN 10
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And, always considering the motleyness of Anglicanism, they certainly do believe in the sacramental nature of Holy Orders, and the functions of the ordained priesthood, in this case to pronounce, exclusively, the forgiveness of sin, as stated.

GKC
 
GKC said:
And, always considering the motleyness of Anglicanism, they certainly do believe in the sacramental nature of Holy Orders, and the functions of the ordained priesthood, in this case to pronounce, exclusively, the forgiveness of sin, as stated.

GKC
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  • Disclaimer = except in the Church of South India, Church of North India, possibly the Archdiocese of Sydney, and certain sister churches like the Marthoma Syrians in full communion.
 
GKC:
Good to see you post; haven’t seen “you” lately.

Mary.
 
Based upon tradition Catholics are correct , based upon the bible Protestants are correct -
 
kenmiller said:
Based upon tradition Catholics are correct , based upon the bible Protestants are correct -
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Which Protestants are correct?
The ones that say homosexuality is OK?
The ones that say abortion is a woman’s choice?
The ones that say infant baptism is not valid?
The ones that do baptize infants?
The ones that say Communion is a memorial alone, a remembrance?
The ones that say it’s real presence but NOT like " Rome" says?’
The ones that ordain women?
The ones that don’t ordain women?
etc.

Which one(s)
Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
Which Protestants are correct?
The ones that say homosexuality is OK?
The ones that say abortion is a woman’s choice?
The ones that say infant baptism is not valid?
The ones that do baptize infants?
The ones that say Communion is a memorial alone, a remembrance?
The ones that say it’s real presence but NOT like " Rome" says?’
The ones that ordain women?
The ones that don’t ordain women?
etc.

Which one(s)
Mary.
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Respectfully , we have our own disagreements within the RCC on those issues - no need to point fingers
 
kenmiller said:
Based upon tradition Catholics are correct , based upon the bible Protestants are correct -
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This assumes Catholics exclude the Bible. It also assumes (all) Protestants exclude tradition. It further assumes that scripture and Tradition inevitably come to different conclusions.
I would contend against all three assumptions.

Catholics clearly and regularly use scripture. To begin with, their entire Mass is scripture.
Lutherans, at least, rely strongly on Tradition. To begin with, our confessional book begins with the three ancient Creeds.
Lutherans, at least, and Catholics have far more convergence than many people think.

Jon
 
MaryT777 said:
Which Protestants are correct?
The ones that say homosexuality is OK?
The ones that say abortion is a woman’s choice?
The ones that say infant baptism is not valid?
The ones that do baptize infants?
The ones that say Communion is a memorial alone, a remembrance?
The ones that say it’s real presence but NOT like " Rome" says?’
The ones that ordain women?
The ones that don’t ordain women?
etc.

Which one(s)
Mary.
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Which non-Protestants are correct?
The ones that say the Filioque?
The ones that say the Filioque is an innovation?
The ones that say the pope has universal jurisdiction?
The ones who say the pope has a primacy of honor?

Regardless of who is divided from whom, our divisions are sad, and hurt to ministry of His Church.

Jon
 
moonbase1 said:
but the Catholic Church has invented a man made – ceremony – mass- that makes the claim you get special grace-- and – that or breaking of bread is “the real presence”
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Typical 1-post troll.

Show some respect for the Holy Mass and remember that you are on a CATHOLIC forum. A less sensitive man (or woman) may find your statement about the Holy Mass offensive and possibly even scandalous.

Calling the Catholic mass a “man-made ceremony” is quite a statement coming from a member of a “man-made” denomination that can only trace it’s origins back a few hundred years - if that. You say you’re “born again” but fail to tell us what “church” you belong to. The vast majority of us are upfront and unashamed of who we are.

I also took the liberty of capitalizing “Catholic Church” for you in the quoted post so you didn’t offend us further.
moonbase1 said:
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

1Co 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

1Co 11:32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Thankfully, I was wrong.
This passage above must be one of the most abused and misunderstood passages in the entire Bible.
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Like so many Catholic bashers that post-and-run here you have shown yourself to be VERY adept at cutting and pasting from the Holy Bible. I know this passage well, and it seems VERY clear to me. Are you trying to say that our reading comprehension is of an inferior quality than yours?
moonbase1 said:
It is regularly used to deny communion to those who need and it is frightening to 10 year olds.

As we will see, it is one of the most liberating scriptures in the Bible, yet many believers are condemned by it.
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OH? Is that your experience? I can tell you that that passage is (to me) one of THE most important things ever written in any language. It was never used to “frighten” me at 10 years old or any other age.

If YOU believed in the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Real Presence; would YOU consume Him if you were unworthy? Would YOU invite the King of kings over to a messy house? I wouldn’t.
moonbase1 said:
Is he now saying that God will condemn us if we partake of communion in an unworthy manner? No he is not.
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That is YOUR opinion. Did you arrive at this opinion from years of study at the seminary? From THOUSANDS of years of theological learning?

Doubt it.
kenmiller said:
Based upon tradition Catholics are correct, based upon the Bible Protestants are correct -
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Please expand on this…
MaryT777 said:
Which Protestants are correct?
The ones that say homosexuality is OK?
The ones that say abortion is a woman’s choice?
The ones that say infant baptism is not valid?
The ones that do baptize infants?
The ones that say Communion is a memorial alone, a remembrance?
The ones that say it’s real presence but NOT like " Rome" says?’
The ones that ordain women?
The ones that don’t ordain women?
etc.

Which one(s)
Mary.
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😃
 
robwar said:
First of all Catholic priests don’t claim this power. The ability to forgive sins “persona Christi” is part of the priestly ordination and anointing of that office. A majority of Protestantism has s different view than the Catholic/Orthodox and including our Anglican and Lutheran friends that have already commented in that Protestantism believes in the priesthood of all believers, therefore the sacramental view of the priesthood is not found. Likewise, a majority of Protestantism emphasizes the believer one on one relationship with God. Considering these two views priesthood of all believers and non-sacrimental pastors and ministers, they do not believe and support the sacrament of confession. If one sins, they simple would say go to God and ask for forgiveness. T**he verses that mention Jesus breathing on the disciples to forgive sins etc are ignored.**QUOTE]

I believe you summarized well the position of the protestant denominations I am familiar with, Robwar.

Note: The statement that I highlighted in bold is not necessarily ignored in the denominations I am familiar with. However, they are usually explained away as being just for the disciples during their earthly ministry (temporal) and not passed on to their successors or to anyone else after they died. I’m not saying that I agree with that interpretation – just saying that the verse isn’t ignored, it’s explained away, just like the verses on some of the charisms just being for the disciples and not carried on to today.

In my local church, asking for forgiveness of sins is hardly mentioned in the church service at all and there is no part of the service that covers it except for the altar call near the end of the service. Apparently it is assumed that everyone handles the confession of sins between themselves and God.

I find having a sacrament of Reconciliation to be an effective way to remain accountable for our sins and to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are forgiven, and I wish my church did more in that area.
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