Questions for any Protestants

[benhur]

So confession is not confession?

Confession is confession. Confession to a brother is confession to a brother .Confession to God is confession to God Confession to to a priests is confession to God thru a priest. Shall I go on? I thought we were talking about sacramental confession here.

 

[rinnie]

What I meant was if a person participates in a mass does that “save” him ? It was stated an OT sacrifice did not save.

I understand what u mean by “full” and differences on afterlife from OT and NT for saints. OT saints were that, saints , regenerated, born of the Spirit, declared righteous by the same person we are, Jesus. They looked forward to Him in faith as we look backward at Him (Calvary, and forward also to second coming) in faith.

The O.T. sacrifice didn’t save. It took the spotless Lamb, the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. All men had sin.

When we are Baptized we are washed away from Original Sin, it took Jesus to do that, and also actual sin.

He took on the sins of all.

 

[benhur]

You mean exactly like how God the Son - eternal high priest - is an intermediary for the human race to God the Father?

Old Covenant Sacrifice of the Holy Prophet Moses, for the chosen people - the Israelites:
“This … is the blood of the covenant that Yahweh has made with you.” (Exodus 24:8)

New Covenant Sacrifice of our Lord God and Savior, for the chosen people - the Church:
“For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matthew 26:28)

The Mass/Divine Liturgy saves because of who offers the sacrifice - Christ; and who the Sacrifice is - Christ. Unlike the OT sacrifice, offered by a mortal priest with mortal flesh.

I totally understand. The question still remains does attending, even participating, a mass save you ?

 

[benhur]

]The O.T. sacrifice didn’t save. It took the spotless Lamb, the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. All men had sin.

When we are Baptized we are washed away from Original Sin, it took Jesus to do that, and also actual sin.

He took on the sins of all.

Exactly . No sacrifice we offer can save us, OT or NT

 

[kenmiller]

Confession is confession. Confession to a brother is confession to a brother .Confession to God is confession to God Confession to to a priests is confession to God thru a priest. Shall I go on? I thought we were talking about sacramental confession here.

Consider this

the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture.

We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9).

As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.

First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

 

[SyroMalankara]

Consider this

the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture.

We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9).

As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.

First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

You just contradicted yourself. If you don’t need a mediator, you don’t need God the Son to mediate for you to God the Father.

 

[SyroMalankara]

rinnie;12586034:

Exactly . No sacrifice we offer can save us, OT or NT

Then throw in the towel. Christ’s Eucharistic Sacrifice of Himself and Crucifixion for us was not salvific, and we are doomed. There’s nothing we can do to be saved.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I totally understand. The question still remains does attending, even participating, a mass save you ?

Let me answer with an analogy. Does eating a family dinner make you part of the family? No.
Does attending and participating in the family dinner make you part of the family? No.
When you are introduced to the father of the household by his son, as his son’s spouse at the family dinner, does that make you part of the family? Yes.
That last bit is what Jesus does perpetually for his Church.

 

[rinnie]

Where do we offer any Sacrifice. The Sacrifice that saves us comes from Christ, he offered himself up as a Sacrifice to save us. And commanded his Apostles and Priests to continue his mission. He said this is my Body which is given up for you, this is my blood DO this in memory of me. So they do.

If you are asking if going to Church saves us, that answer could be yes, and could be no.

If you continue to go to Church as commanded by God, obey his commands, and stay free from sin, then you got a pretty good shot.

If you go to Church, sin, continue to disobey his commands you got a pretty good shot of not getting in.

Bottom line no one can give you the answer you want. Only God can save us, and only God can Judge us, and only God will make the call on the last day rather we are saved, or thrown into the fires of hell.

But he left us his Church, He and the RCC are ONE. And do I believe it helps me to keep in his good grace, you bet!

 

[rinnie]

Consider this

the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture.

We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9).

As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.

First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Yes On the day of Pentecost the people said what shall we do to gain eternal life. Peter said confess your sins and be Baptized.

Jesus told the Apostles whose sin you loose is loose, and bound is bound. How do you believe a Priest can loose or bound sin if people do not confess their sin to them? Please explain why God told the Priests to bound or loose sin? What was the purpose?

 

[rinnie]

benhur;12586070:

Then throw in the towel. Christ’s Eucharistic Sacrifice of Himself and Crucifixion for us was not salvific, and we are doomed. There’s nothing we can do to be saved.

What in the world are you talking about. Please read what I said before you attack me. I said quote: There is nothing WE CAN DO.

We are saved through Jesus Christ, he did it all.

Now because of his death we can be saved. But now that he made it POSSIBLE for us to be saved we have things we must do. Confess, be baptized, receive the Eucharist, etc.

But nothing we can do, that was not made possible by Christ and his grace. It is now by the Power of the Holy Spirit we can continue to follow and be led by him. Without God we can do Nothing.

 

[JonNC]

Consider this

the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture.

We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9).

As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.

First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

I think this is the point of contention. Lutherans essentially affirm what has always been the teaching of the Church Catholic, both east and west, that the power to bind and loose conferred on the apostles is meant for the entire Church through those appointed (ordained) by the Church, that the priest/pastor acts in persona christi granting absolution.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Lutherans understand this as the power and office of the Keys, held by those regularly called and ordained by the Church to provide this sacrament.

Jon

 

[Randy_Carson]

St. Paul never heard a “confession”. It is an assumption on just what Paul meant by "traditions. for it is rarely used in scripture in a positive sense. We all do follow some traditions. Paul’s buddy Barnabus had a tradition, for he wrote , “It is well that he who has learned the judgements of the Lord, as many as have been written, keep them”

Maybe. But he defiinitely understood the basis for absolution in persona Christi (in the person of Christ):

2 Corinthians 2:10
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)

And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (Douay Rheims)

 

[rinnie]

I think this is the point of contention. Lutherans essentially affirm what has always been the teaching of the Church Catholic, both east and west, that the power to bind and loose conferred on the apostles is meant for the entire Church through those appointed (ordained) by the Church, that the priest/pastor acts in persona christi granting absolution.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Lutherans understand this as the power and office of the Keys, held by those regularly called and ordained by the Church to provide this sacrament.

Jon

I used to get really confused on this also Jon, and when I used to say only the Pope has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, this scripture was given to me, time after time.

After years of prayers and asking for wisdom to see the difference, one day I got up, read the two separate scriptures and there it was right in front of my face.

Jesus said YOU are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the kingdom, what you bound is bound, loose is loose.

Then I read the scripture you quoted, and then the truth came to me.

Jesus gave Peter and Peter only the keys to the kingdom. He could bind anything, Jesus never said ONLY sin, Jesus whatever you bound will count here and heaven.

But when he gave the Apostles all the power to bind and loose it was stated, bind and loose SIN, and only sin.

Holding the keys to the kingdom was never mentioned only to Peter.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

St. Paul never heard a “confession”. It is an assumption on just what Paul meant by "traditions. for it is rarely used in scripture in a positive sense. We all do follow some traditions. Paul’s buddy Barnabus had a tradition, for he wrote , “It is well that he who has learned the judgements of the Lord, as many as have been written, keep them”

You admit you follow traditions?!?! Unbiblical ones?!?! PROTESTANT BLASMPHEMY!!! Seriously though, yeah this passage is very much pushed aside by non-Catholics. How do you know Paul never heard a confession btw? Just because scripture does not say “Paul heard confessions” does not mean it did not happen. We have reason to believe The Early Church practices The Sacrament of confession because it is recorded and you also dismiss “John 20:21-23” that says God gave The apostles the authority to forgive sins. I Or how is your interpretation of that passage different than The Early Church? How were they wrong and your interpretation right?

BTW, your “We do all follow some traditions” Is not good enough. The apostle Paul said to follow what we were taught both orally and written. The traditions that these new denominations come up with (It would be great if you could tell me what traditions you speak of?) might not be in line with what The apostles taught. It has to be something The Early Church taught. Like apostolic succession or The True presence of Christ in The Eucharist.

 

[Aslan10]

SyroMalankara;12586117:

What in the world are you talking about. Please read what I said before you attack me. I said quote: There is nothing WE CAN DO.

We are saved through Jesus Christ, he did it all.

Now because of his death we can be saved. But now that he made it POSSIBLE for us to be saved we have things we must do. Confess, be baptized, receive the Eucharist, etc.

But nothing we can do, that was not made possible by Christ and his grace. It is now by the Power of the Holy Spirit we can continue to follow and be led by him. Without God we can do Nothing.

Amen

 

[rfournier103]

Have you ever asked your Preacher why he cannot forgive sins in the name of God?

And why he gave this power to humans in the bible to forgive them in his name, which scripture states Priests have this power?

What I am asking why have they not claimed this Power Catholic Priests claim?

If I were raised as a Protestant OTHER than an Anglican or Lutheran; why would it ever occur to me to ask this question?

 

[Randy_Carson]

If I were raised as a Protestant OTHER than an Anglican or Lutheran; why would it ever occur to me to ask this question?

Well, one possibility is that you hear that Catholics go to a priest for confession, and you would think this is really weird until one day you would see the passage in John 20 where Jesus speaks of forgiving sins, and you would ask yourself, “Gee, so that’s why Catholics go to confession…why doesn’t my pastor do that?”

Sometimes we Catholics witness to the truth by what we do in addition to what we say.

 

[JonNC]

I used to get really confused on this also Jon, and when I used to say only the Pope has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, this scripture was given to me, time after time.

After years of prayers and asking for wisdom to see the difference, one day I got up, read the two separate scriptures and there it was right in front of my face.

Jesus said YOU are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the kingdom, what you bound is bound, loose is loose.

Then I read the scripture you quoted, and then the truth came to me.

Jesus gave Peter and Peter only the keys to the kingdom. He could bind anything, Jesus never said ONLY sin, Jesus whatever you bound will count here and heaven.

But when he gave the Apostles all the power to bind and loose it was stated, bind and loose SIN, and only sin.

Holding the keys to the kingdom was never mentioned only to Peter.

I think you meant that it was mentioned only to St Peter. St. Peter received the keys for the Church. That doesn’t mean only Peter exercised the keys, or that the rest of the Church is excluded from the keys.

Jon

 

[benhur]

Consider this

the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture.

We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9).

As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.

First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Agree. I believe that was and is the tradition, for many.