Questions for any Protestants

[Tommy999]

I don’t know what the Catholic response is, but the Lutheran one is that, while this line from you quote is true ( “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world.), He also gives them authority to bind and loose sin, in His name.

Jon

Thanks, Jon. From viewing your posts, you are a wise and discerning man and I take what you have to say to heart.

Another interpretation I heard of that verse was that power was only meant for the disciples during their earthly ministry and was not passed on to others afterwards on earth to do in perpetuity, and forgiveness was just meant for God and Christ alone to do.

After being on CAF since May, one thing that I have come to realize is that there are so many different protestant interpretations of different verses and so many protestant denominations. I used to think this was a good thing (God’s people expressing the Christian faith through different personalities, if you will) but not so much anymore. It can be downright confusing at times, even if those different interpretations sometimes have logic behind them.

 

[GKC]

I don’t know what the Catholic response is, but the Lutheran one is that, while this line from you quote is true ( “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world.), He also gives them authority to bind and loose sin, in His name.

Jon

Sounds quite Anglicanish, that.

Depending on the Anglican making the sounds, of course. And depending on who is doing the binding and loosing, under that authority.

GKC

 

[JonNC]

Sounds quite Anglicanish, that.

Depending on the Anglican making the sounds, of course. And depending on who is doing the binding and loosing, under that authority.

GKC

Yes, the issue of authority often comes up on this topic. A topic I know you are well versed in.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Thanks, Jon. From viewing your posts, you are a wise and discerning man and I take what you have to say to heart.

Another interpretation I heard of that verse was that power was only meant for the disciples during their earthly ministry and was not passed on to others afterwards on earth to do in perpetuity, and forgiveness was just meant for God and Christ alone to do.

After being on CAF since May, one thing that I have come to realize is that there are so many different protestant interpretations of different verses and so many protestant denominations. I used to think this was a good thing but not so much anymore. It can be downright confusing at times, even if those different interpretations sometimes have logic behind them.

I think it ought to be confusing for you only if the Assemblies of God have differing viewpoints on the matter.

Thank you for the kind words.

Jon

 

[Tommy999]

I think it ought to be confusing for you only if the Assemblies of God have differing viewpoints on the matter.

Thank you for the kind words.

Jon

To be honest, I don’t know what the official AOG position on the subject is as I’ve never heard it taught or preached from the pulpit, but I will try to look it up.

 

[GKC]

Yes, the issue of authority often comes up on this topic. A topic I know you are well versed in.

Jon

Somewhat versed, at least.

Kind words appreciated.

GKC

 

[JonNC]

To be honest, I don’t know what the official AOG position on the subject is as I’ve never heard it taught or preached from the pulpit, but I will try to look it up.

I think that’s a good starting place.

Jon

 

[Tommy999]

I think that’s a good starting place.

Jon

That was the closest I could find on the subject from the AOG site.

Taken from ag.org/top/Beliefs/topics/gendoct_19_confession_sins.cfm

• …the confession of sins is to be directed to God through Jesus Christ. Nowhere does God’s Word tell us to confess our sins to a clergyman or human mediator in order to receive God’s forgiveness. Instead this is to be done from the repentant heart of the sinner directly to the Savior–Jesus Christ.

On the human level, there are times when we should confess our sins to one another and forgive one another (Matthew 6:12,14,15; James 5:16). This is true when we have wronged or offended a person and are truly repentant. In such cases we are to ask that person for forgiveness. This is best done on a private, personal basis rather than publicly. However, as Christians we must carefully follow the leading of the Holy Spirit so as to discern when we are to practice confession with others. Confession in the body of Christ, when practiced merely at whim without discernment, can cause great harm and hurt to many. Often when done improperly it only causes aggravation and re-injury to the offended parties, and becomes a root for increased bitterness, gossip, division, and emotional stress. However, when confession among one another is handled properly with good motives, discernment, and at the prompting of the Holy Spirit, it will always produce positive results and bring relational healing.

When practicing confession in the body of Christ it is good to remember the circle of confession should be limited to the circle of the sin.*

Sounds like a different position than the Catholic one, but along the lines of what I expected.

 

[yogosans14]

1 John 1:8-9
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 ** If **we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Jon

Yes this is my favorite verse. If we confess to GOD and him ALONE he is just and faithful to forgive us.

 

[Randy_Carson]

After being on CAF since May, one thing that I have come to realize is that there are so many different protestant interpretations of different verses and so many protestant denominations. I used to think this was a good thing (God’s people expressing the Christian faith through different personalities, if you will) but not so much anymore. It can be downright confusing at times, even if those different interpretations sometimes have logic behind them.

God is not the author of confusion, but the Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura, along with the obligatory right to absolute private judgment, have shattered the unity Jesus desired for His Church.

Jesus established one flock with one Shepherd and his gravesite is just a few feet away from where His successor lives and works in an apartment in Rome.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes this is my favorite verse. If we confess to GOD and him ALONE he is just and faithful to forgive us.

And there, right there, you have committed the common error of inserting your interpretation of the verse right into the verse itself. Here is the actual text in context:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

The verse does not say, “and Him alone”, does it? :nope:

This is pure eisegesis based upon your denomination’s presuppositions. I suspect you read all of scripture like this.

 

[JonNC]

And there, right there, you have committed the common error of inserting your interpretation of the verse right into the verse itself. Here is the actual text in context:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

The verse does not say, “and Him alone”, does it? :nope:

This is pure eisegesis based upon your denomination’s presuppositions. I suspect you read all of scripture like this.

And this, coupled with the binding and loosing of sin, provides the scriptural support for auricular confession.
Also, confession in this way is confession to God

Jon

 

[GKC]

And this, coupled with the binding and loosing of sin, provides the scriptural support for auricular confession.
Also, confession in this way is confession to God

Jon

Jon

Yep.

GKC

 

[Randy_Carson]

And this, coupled with the binding and loosing of sin, provides the scriptural support for auricular confession.
Also, confession in this way is confession to God

Jon

Jon

Nicely said, Jon Jon.

(you know that’s gonna stick, right?)

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes this is my favorite verse. If we confess to GOD and him ALONE he is just and faithful to forgive us.

And this, coupled with the binding and loosing of sin, provides the scriptural support for auricular confession.
Also, confession in this way is confession to God

Jon

Jon

Yep.

GKC

So, yogosan, here you have a Lutheran (Jon Jon), an Anglican (GKC) and a Catholic (me) all agreeing that the hearing of confessions by ordained men is biblical.

 

[JonNC]

Nicely said, Jon Jon.

(you know that’s gonna stick, right?)

Don’t know what you’re talking about

Jon

 

[benhur]

And this, coupled with the binding and loosing of sin, provides the scriptural support for auricular confession.
Also, confession in this way is confession to God

Jon

Pretty much everything Catholic has scriptural support, at least by their interpretations, just like 30,000 other churhces.

 

[benhur]

Catholic Catechism: 1447- “Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this “order of penitents” (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the “private” practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1447. Imprimi Potest + Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Image Books by Doubleday, NY 2003)”

 

[benhur]

Augustine,

" 15. Forgiveness of sins. You have [this article of] the Creed perfectly in you when you receive Baptism.* Let none say, I have done this or that sin: perchance that is not forgiven me. What have you done? How great a sin have you done? Name any heinous thing you have committed, heavy, horrible, which you shudder even to think of: have done what you will: have you killed Christ? There is not than that deed any worse, because also than Christ there is nothing better. What a dreadful thing is it to kill Christ! Yet the Jews killed Him, and many afterwards believed on Him and drank His blood: they are forgiven the sin which they committed. When you have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that you may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not.* For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. **What has the Prayer? Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which you must needs be separated from Christ’s body: which be far from you! For those whom you have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice."
(Augustine. Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, Chapter 15. In: Seventeen short treatises of S. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo. Volume 22 of Library of fathers of the Holy Catholic Church. J. H. Parker, 1847. Original from Harvard University, Digitized Sep 28, 2007, p. 575)

 

[joe371]

Pretty much everything Catholic has scriptural support, at least by their interpretations, just like 30,000 other churhces.

I don’t think Jesus would be happy even if the number was 50…