Questions for Evolution-Deniers

[Mystic_Banana]

That’s a pretty novel concept. You may, in fact, be the first to have ever come up with it. Perhaps you’re in line to be a Doctor of the Church

Maybe I should go for a Masters first - but thanks for the ego boost!

God doing something in which he doesn’t know the outcome has been condemned by Cardinal Schoenborn in his book Chance or Purpose. Here’s a link where I mentioned that some time ago.

Well, as I said earlier, I didn’t think it was an effective attitude applied to evolution-as-it-may-or-may-not-have-occurred, but, given the idea that God is omnipotent, I can’t see how the capability of intentional randomness can be denied… and I’ll take on the Cardinal himself, if he wants to argue that one!

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Well not if you actually understand the science, just because mutations are random does not mean evolution is. I recommend a basic science class for you, you should not be too out your depth if you jump in the the 11 year olds.

I thought you might - you assume I’m not heavily enough learned of the (un)sacred dogmas, otherwise I’d be a devout believer?



You’ve chanted that mantra before!

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Sounds like a typical atheist’s statement to me.

I’ve got to say, Albert so far seems incapable of anything else, in my experience… sorry Al!

 

[AlbertBall]

I was talking about the key mutations that lead to increasing information / complexity in DNA (thereby leading from simple life to complex life). Obviously every mutation does not lead in that direction, and you will agree with me that the vast majority of mutations lead in the opposite direction.

Of course you can see random mutations which destroy or disable. But have you observed any of those “random” mutations which lead to increasing information / complexity?

No, I thought not. Spiderman is not likely to appear anytime soon.

Define “information”

 

[AlbertBall]

Just curious - did you win the Dawkins Mutation Challenge?

In addition it is now well understood that the super language of DNA fights against mutations (much like a parity bit works in electronics).

Reallllllllly???

 

[AlbertBall]

Sounds like a typical atheist’s statement to me.

What does ‘kent’ mean? They only definition I could find online was in Urban dictionary and it was obscene.

Kent Hovind

 

[AlbertBall]

I’ve got to say, Albert so far seems incapable of anything else, in my experience… sorry Al!

LOL don’t be sorry, i am one of the very few on this site with a degree-education in science. I openly admit i should be more patient with the proletariat, and i promise i will try harder in the future.

 

[itinerant1]

LOL don’t be sorry, i am one of the very few on this site with a degree-education in science. I openly admit i should be more patient with the proletariat, and i promise i will try harder in the future.

A degree in science can be a handicap if one specializes too soon and never obtains a broader education in the great ideas of western civilization.

The following observation is not directed at you by any means, since I don’t know your background, but it is a reflection on modern education, generally.

The animal, we know, is a specialist at what he does. Likewise, specialization in education that is not built on a true liberal arts foundation (artes liberales in the classical sense, not the modern university sense), involves a progressive animalization of the human mind.

The old adage about specialization as knowing more and more about less and less has some truth to it.

The gist of this is that some of us will have to be patient with you.

 

[itinerant1]

Kent Hovind

What does Kent Hovind have to do with anything?

 

[Fran65]

I also have a BSc Hons in a science. My degree included significant amounts of biology, ethology, evolutionary psychology and statistics. I’m not sure about computer science though. How much biology and evolutionary science do you do in that Albert? Not much I think; my husband did a similar degree and we talked a lot about his work.

 

[StAnastasia]

Kent Hovind

Do you mean Convicted Felon Kent Hovind?

 

[StAnastasia]

LOL don’t be sorry, i am one of the very few on this site with a degree-education in science. I openly admit i should be more patient with the proletariat, and i promise i will try harder in the future.

Speak for yourself!

 

[ricmat]

Define “information”

Specified information - “Sequences or arrangements of something that produce a specific effect.”

Obviously in the case of DNA, the sequences of amino acids produce a specific effect (a valid life form).

 

[rossum]

Specified information - “Sequences or arrangements of something that produce a specific effect.”

Obviously in the case of DNA, the sequences of amino acids produce a specific effect (a valid life form).

Then evolution is perfectly capable of producing specified information. If I specify “malaria resistance” then we can pick either the HbS or HbC mutations as examples. If I specify “resistance to chloresterol induced heart attacks” then I can pick the Apolipoprotein A-I Milano mutation as an example. All three mutations are point mutations, and I am not aware of anyone who does not think that evolution is capable of point mutations.

With your definition of “Specified Information” we can see evolution producing such specified information. Hence the inference of a requirement for a designer is incorrect with the definition you provide.

rossum

 

[AlbertBall]

Then evolution is perfectly capable of producing specified information. If I specify “malaria resistance” then we can pick either the HbS or HbC mutations as examples. If I specify “resistance to chloresterol induced heart attacks” then I can pick the Apolipoprotein A-I Milano mutation as an example. All three mutations are point mutations, and I am not aware of anyone who does not think that evolution is capable of point mutations.

With your definition of “Specified Information” we can see evolution producing such specified information. Hence the inference of a requirement for a designer is incorrect with the definition you provide.

rossum

exactly

 

[AlbertBall]

I also have a BSc Hons in a science. My degree included significant amounts of biology, ethology, evolutionary psychology and statistics. I’m not sure about computer science though. How much biology and evolutionary science do you do in that Albert? Not much I think; my husband did a similar degree and we talked a lot about his work.

I have studied biology, chemistry and physics at undergrad level, i have studied maths to degree level and computing past degree level. However not standard computing. Anyway…

The subject is irrelevant, and if you have a BSC(hons) you should know this. For your honours project like every other BCS(hons), MSC, or PhD must have been carried out using the scientific method (so to speak). The method is the same regardless of the subject hence, why one is awarded a BSC(hons) and not a BA(hons).

Oh and reason i called the dude kent is because is defense was exactly the same nonsense as spouted by “Dr”(lol) kent hovind, which was along the lines of “you weren’t there so you can’t know”. Again if you have a BSC(hons) you should no this to be utter nonsense.

I’m curious as someone with an education in science how to you reconcile the gap between knowledge and belief when it comes to religion, and why do you believe that for which there is no compelling or empirical evidence?

 

[ricmat]

Then evolution is perfectly capable of producing specified information. If I specify “malaria resistance” then we can pick either the HbS or HbC mutations as examples. If I specify “resistance to chloresterol induced heart attacks” then I can pick the Apolipoprotein A-I Milano mutation as an example. All three mutations are point mutations, and I am not aware of anyone who does not think that evolution is capable of point mutations.

With your definition of “Specified Information” we can see evolution producing such specified information. Hence the inference of a requirement for a designer is incorrect with the definition you provide.

rossum

Rossum, why don’t you read Signature in the Cell. I am clearly out of your class here, I just leafed through the book to find a definition of information, and copied it into my post. But much of the book is devoted to defining what kind of information is applicable, and how to identify it when you see it. Also, an example of one single instance does not make the case for something as complex as DNA.

Just beating me up doesn’t make your case.

Why not read the book, and argue with the author instead. Tell us what you take exception to in the book, not what you take exception to with my limited understanding of the book.

 

[itinerant1]

Do you mean Convicted Felon Kent Hovind?

AlbertBall was questioned about his use of the word “kent.” He claims he meant “Kent Hovind”, which makes no sense in the context. His original post said “kent,” a fact which is duly noted.

“You can fool some of the people…”.

 

[buffalo]

Scientists find evidence of design

		In a piece in Scientific American, Richard Dawkins, the famous evolutionist, concluded, "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." Dawkins' statement either reveals willful ignorance or he seems unaware of the scientific principle put forth in the United Kingdom that the universe has been precisely tuned for a purpose, and that purpose is life.

Stephen Hawking, the United Kingdom’s brilliant physicist, ranked with Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, has a different take on the subject. Hawking said, “The odds against a universe like ours emerging out of the Big Bang are enormous.” Together with Brandon Carter and other colleagues at Cambridge University, Hawking discovered an extremely delicate mathematical balance among the four fundamental forces of nature. These forces are: strong force in the atom’s nucleus, weak nuclear force, electromagnetism and gravity. The extremely delicate balance of forces in nature not only enabled our universe to exist but it also sustains our universe. Hawking and his colleagues presented the mathematical details in a formal paper that supports the anthropic principle. In other words, the universe is adapted for a purpose and that purpose is life. During a published interview Hawking put it this way, “I think there are religious implications whenever you start to discuss the origins of the universe.” And he added, “I think most scientists like to stay away from the religious side of it.”

more…

 

[paully]

Reminds me of the joke where scientists finally figure out how to “create man” in exactly the same manner God did. They say to God,

“We don’t need you anymore, we’ve discovered how to make man just like you did.”

And God replies, “Did you?”

And the scientists say, “Yes we can breath life into inanimate dust!”

To which Gods says, “Show me.”

The scientists then take some dirt from the ground and begin the process when God says, “Wait wait…I created man out of dust, and I created dust. So make your own dust.”

I like that!!!