Questions for Mormons..

[Charlotte408]

Ok, so first off, this is a COMPLETELY honest and genuine thread…these are valid questions i have…last night i was reading another thread comparing Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons…and some of the things about mormonism stuck in my head and i was up all night trying to sort it out…so…im not here to criticize or attack, i just wanna know

I’m hoping Ms. Dianaid ((<—hey…i just noticed that was one of those, you know where backwards and forwards its the same thing?? LOL)) I’m HOPING she’ll make here cuz shes one lean mean mormon machine man that chick knows her stuff!!

ok, so here it goes…and also, i’m doing this from memory…and mine isnt that great…so…if im wrong on any of these, please correct me, but also please dont forget to answer the question…oh yeah, and answer honestly, sometimes people get caught up in the correction, or they only give ‘half truths’…

First, what I’ve gathered:

-Jesus = Jehovah
-Jesus is NOT the heavenly father
-when we die, we may become Gods, and we will be able to be a God to our own planet, of which we will populate with our wife

I’m really unclear on the whole how the heavenly father impregnated Mary thing, I’ve heard it was physically, like he was a man??? If you could clarify that’d be cool…

I’ve also THOUGHT i seen somewhere that Jesus was the start of humanity … or something like that…

ok so heres the Q’s…

1. Do you get to pick, or is the planet given to you?
2. If your wife dies first, does SHE get to pick the planet? or…where does she go until you get there and pick it out?
3. With what we know about the universe expanding, and ultimately disappearing into nothingness…what does that mean for the Gods of the planets on the universes outer edges? When, or if, the universe fades out into nothingness, what becomes of your Gods then?
   Was Jesus the God that populated THIS earth? if not who was?
   How could Jesus have been the start of humanity when there were people before him?
   If it WAS Jesus, than why doesnt he reside over this planet, why do you believe that he lives on a planet near the star KOBOL? or kobal…however its spelled???

Thnx…just those questions drove me crazy last night…i think in growing in other faiths its really helping me grow in mine, so i appreciate everyones tolerance on this thread …

 

[Charlotte408]

OH yah, and is it true that you use suicide, or assisted suicide as a form of repentance for sins?

 

[Jerusha]

The LDS Church no longer teaches those things. Faithful Mormons have difficulty finding those things in their literature. Those things are only taught by literate but rabid anti-Mormons. Mormonism believes that their profits are infallible. If a past profit ever taught those things, then he was only speaking as a human being. Present profits trump past profits.

(Spelling errors intentional)

Hey, Parker, I beat you to it.

 

[Charlotte408]

are you a mormon?? if you dont mind me asking? does it strike you as odd that 'present profits trump past ones?? doesnt that mean that the entire religion could have changed from what it was, and probably more times than once?? i mean, if every time a new profit goes up and says something, and now, ‘this is what it is’…then…that person could just make it what they want it? right??

and are you sure??? i have to go back and look at that thread, it was just last nite but i coulda sworn there were mormons on there saying these things…

 

[Jerusha]

I’m not a Mormon, and never have been. However, they gave me the motivation to study their culture and beliefs. Sorry if my sense of humor strikes you the wrong way, but I am rejoicing over a victory on another board.

 

[Charlotte408]

LOL…good for you girl…

 

[Charlotte408]

Jerusha:

whatever I’m wrong on, or whatever you know, i’d really appreciate your info…lol…see my uncle, (catholic) married a my aunt (mormon)…and i’d really like to have a grasp of what it is exactly she believes in, lol…but as you can see, this seems to differ from person to person so…idk???

DIANAID!!! lol…where is that lady…

 

[Jerusha]

I got a bad axe to grind. Most of it is culturally specific. but

 

[ParkerD]

Charlotte,
Quick answers:
(Note: I and others have already given pretty lengthy answers, so you may feel short-changed but if so you can click on a name and find them all.)

-Jesus = Jehovah
-Jesus is NOT Heavenly Father

Correct. They are indeed Separate Persons. They have like qualities and like omniscience and omnipotence and a fullness of joy and They want to share what They have with others.

Because They want to share their kind of life with its fullness of joy, They created this earth for us to live on and progress by making choices in this life, without having complete knowledge about Them. Their ultimate purpose for creating this world and sending us here was so we can have a fullness of joy, which can only happen if we become “like Christ” through having His grace help us do that. The “goal” is fullness of joy, fullness of love, fullness of knowledge (which are required for a fullness of joy). Christ had creative power before this world, and “all things were made by Him”). If we “create” worlds, it will be by using the same power that He used, and it will be somewhere in the universe where that newly created world fits in, and the creation will be from existing matter or energy. We will have a fullness of joy as we “watch” other spirits progress on that new world like we have progressed on this world. We will love them just like Heavenly Father and Christ love us. We will have joy because of the love we feel for each other and for these progressing spirits.

Jesus was the Firstborn in the pre-mortal life (millenia before us), and was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost and became the actual Son of Heavenly Father with a physical body. The pregnancy was by immaculate conception which Mary received, and she was a virgin when Christ was born.

1. With what we know about the universe expanding, and ultimately disappearing into nothingness…what does that mean for the Gods of the planets on the universes outer edges? When, or if, the universe fades out into nothingness, what becomes of your Gods then?

If the universe is expanding then there is more room for more planets, right? We don’t know what is on the “edge” of the universe, right? Some scientists think there are “multi-verses.” God is omnipotent in the entire universe.

Was Jesus the God that populated THIS earth? if not who was?

We are all spirit children of Heavenly Father, meaning that He created us from an energy or energized matter form called an “intelligence”. This happened in pre-mortal life.

Jesus wasn’t the start of humanity. He was the Firstborn of Heavenly Father in pre-mortal life. He was perfect always, and as God the Son He loves all of us with a perfect unconditional love and knows our needs, perfectly.

Have a nice day, and I hope you have a nice nap at some point.

 

[Javl]

Charlotte,
Quick answers:
(Note: I and others have already given pretty lengthy answers, so you may feel short-changed but if so you can click on a name and find them all.)

Correct. They are indeed Separate Persons. They have like qualities and like omniscience and omnipotence and a fullness of joy and They want to share what They have with others.

Because They want to share their kind of life with its fullness of joy, They created this earth for us to live on and progress by making choices in this life, without having complete knowledge about Them. Their ultimate purpose for creating this world and sending us here was so we can have a fullness of joy, which can only happen if we become “like Christ” through having His grace help us do that. The “goal” is fullness of joy, fullness of love, fullness of knowledge (which are required for a fullness of joy). Christ had creative power before this world, and “all things were made by Him”). If we “create” worlds, it will be by using the same power that He used, and it will be somewhere in the universe where that newly created world fits in, and the creation will be from existing matter or energy. We will have a fullness of joy as we “watch” other spirits progress on that new world like we have progressed on this world. We will love them just like Heavenly Father and Christ love us. We will have joy because of the love we feel for each other and for these progressing spirits.

Jesus was the Firstborn in the pre-mortal life (millenia before us), and was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost and became the actual Son of Heavenly Father with a physical body. The pregnancy was by immaculate conception which Mary received, and she was a virgin when Christ was born.

If the universe is expanding then there is more room for more planets, right? We don’t know what is on the “edge” of the universe, right? Some scientists think there are “multi-verses.” God is omnipotent in the entire universe.

We are all spirit children of Heavenly Father, meaning that He created us from an energy or energized matter form called an “intelligence”. This happened in pre-mortal life.

Jesus wasn’t the start of humanity. He was the Firstborn of Heavenly Father in pre-mortal life. He was perfect always, and as God the Son He loves all of us with a perfect unconditional love and knows our needs, perfectly.

Have a nice day, and I hope you have a nice nap at some point.

Parker:

Reading your response it seems that Mormonism reflects Gnosis. Could this be?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[ParkerD]

Parker:

Reading your response it seems that Mormonism reflects Gnosis. Could this be?

PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem

Javl,
Every time I read anything about Gnosticism, I don’t really understand it and I don’t understand why anyone thinks it is like the doctrine I described above. However, what was taught by the apostles and by prophets such as Daniel, Isaiah, Elijah, and Malachi became changed as the doctrines were taught by others over time or as they were written down by people trying to make them fit into their own thinking, so Gnosticism could certainly have elements of “true doctrine”, but it would be considerably changed from the original, pure, true doctrine.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Charlotte,

We are all spirit children of Heavenly Father, meaning that He created us from an energy or energized matter form called an “intelligence”. This happened in pre-mortal life.

Jesus wasn’t the start of humanity. He was the Firstborn of Heavenly Father in pre-mortal life. He was perfect always, and as God the Son He loves all of us with a perfect unconditional love and knows our needs, perfectly.

Have a nice day, and I hope you have a nice nap at some point.

This is not quite what is said in The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Alienated thus from the truth, they do deservedly wallow in all error, tossed to and fro by it, thinking differently in regard to the same things at different times, and never attaining to a well-grounded knowledge, being more anxious to be sophists of words than disciples of the truth. For they have not been founded upon the one rock, but upon the sand, which has in itself a multitude of stones. Wherefore they also imagine many gods, and they always have the excuse of searching [after truth] (for they are blind), but never succeed in finding it. For they blaspheme the Creator, Him who is truly God, who also furnishes power to find [the truth]; imagining that they have discovered another god beyond God, or another Pleroma, or another dispensation. Wherefore also the light which is from God does not illumine them, because they have dishonoured and despised God, holding Him of small account, because, through His love and infinite benignity, He has come within reach of human knowledge (knowledge, however, not with regard to His greatness, or with regard to His essence— for that has no man measured or handled— but after this sort: that we should know that He who made, and formed, and breathed in them the breath of life, and nourishes us by means of the creation, establishing all things by His Word, and binding them together by His Wisdom — this is He who is the only true God); but they dream of a non-existent being above Him…]

St Irenaeus, “Against Heresies: Recapitulation of the various arguments adduced against Gnostic impiety under all its aspects. The heretics, tossed about by every blast of doctrine, are opposed by the uniform teaching of the Church, which remains so always, and is consistent with itself.” Book III, Chapter 24, c.180AD

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus wasn’t the start of humanity. He was the Firstborn of Heavenly Father in pre-mortal life. He was perfect always, and as God the Son He loves all of us with a perfect unconditional love and knows our needs, perfectly.

Parker-

Are Jesus and the Heavenly Father both God?
Do Jesus and the heavenly father have the same nature?
Are they equals?
Has the Heavenly Father always existed?
Has Jesus always existed?
Did Jesus exist prior to the incarnation here on earth?
Was Jesus God before the incarnation?

Finally, would it be accurate to say that people who died in God’s favor prior to Jesus could have become gods? IOW, could people in OT times have already been Gods before Jesus?

Thanks.

 

[ParkerD]

Randy Carson,
Peace to you as you think about these answers and your questions.

Are Jesus and the Heavenly Father both God?

Yes. One could say They have the “substance” that makes Them God, which is omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence, and complete perfection in every sense. They have a unified intent for humankind and for the universe.

Do Jesus and the Heavenly Father have the same nature?

Yes, as resurrected Beings with the “substance” of being God, They have the same nature. They both have perfect bodies with tangible presence. Man was created in the actual “image” of God the Father.

Are they equals?

Since They are omnipotent, by definition They are equals and have complete unity in Their Will.

Has the Heavenly Father always existed?

Yes.

Has Jesus always existed?

Yes.

Did Jesus exist prior to the incarnation here on earth?

Yes.

Was Jesus God before the incarnation?

Yes. He created the earth as the “Word”. (See John 1)

Finally, would it be accurate to say that people who died in God’s favor prior to Jesus could have become gods? IOW, could people in OT times have already been Gods before Jesus?

These are two very different questions. Jesus suffered for the sins of all humankind throughout time. The “goal” of becoming “like Christ” in the kind of Oneness that He has with the Father, was available to people in OT times but it was a distant goal and would not be able to be attained until after Christ’s mission on earth and much later in eternal time as they continued to learn and progress.

The answer to your second question is absolutely not, neither before Jesus nor until a very long time thereafter continuing to learn, grow, and progress in the spirit world or as resurrected beings.

Thanks.

 

[zerinus]

Are Jesus and the Heavenly Father both God?

Yes.

Do Jesus and the heavenly father have the same nature?

Yes.

Are they equals?

No. Jesus is subordinate to Heavenly Father.

Has the Heavenly Father always existed?

Yes.

Has Jesus always existed?

Yes.

Did Jesus exist prior to the incarnation here on earth?

Yes.

Was Jesus God before the incarnation?

Yes.

Finally, would it be accurate to say that people who died in God’s favor prior to Jesus could have become gods?

Some of them, yes. In the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord informs us that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are now gods.

IOW, could people in OT times have already been Gods before Jesus?

No. Jesus was God before the world was made.

 

[dianaiad]

Ok, so first off, this is a COMPLETELY honest and genuine thread…these are valid questions i have…last night i was reading another thread comparing Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons…and some of the things about mormonism stuck in my head and i was up all night trying to sort it out…so…im not here to criticize or attack, i just wanna know

I’m hoping Ms. Dianaid ((<—hey…i just noticed that was one of those, you know where backwards and forwards its the same thing?? LOL)) I’m HOPING she’ll make here cuz shes one lean mean mormon machine man that chick knows her stuff!!

Thank you, flattery will get you all sorts of bennies…sorry I didn’t get on this earlier. I’ve been a bit busy.

ok, so here it goes…and also, i’m doing this from memory…and mine isnt that great…so…if im wrong on any of these, please correct me, but also please dont forget to answer the question…oh yeah, and answer honestly, sometimes people get caught up in the correction, or they only give ‘half truths’…

First, what I’ve gathered:

-Jesus = Jehovah

Yep.

-Jesus is NOT the heavenly father

nope.

-when we die, we may become Gods, and we will be able to be a God to our own planet, of which we will populate with our wife

Nope. God created the universe. All the planets are taken, since they are, y’know, HIS. What we believe is that we are literally His children, and that we may (emphasis on the ‘may’ ) be 'heirs and joint-heirs" with Christ and have all that He does. Follow the logic on that however you wish, but it doesn’t lead to populating planets. At least, not single planets.

Me?

I’m going for my own universe. (and yes, that WAS me being facetious.)

I’m really unclear on the whole how the heavenly father impregnated Mary thing, I’ve heard it was physically, like he was a man??? If you could clarify that’d be cool…

That is a misunderstood thing…it’s a trinity argument, not a ‘God had sex with Mary’ argument. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Ghost are entirely separate Beings. Some trinitarian modalist types were trying to tell us that Mary was actually impregnated by the Holy Ghost, since in their view the Holy Ghost and God the Father are both the same, either modally or in essence. We, not being classic trinitarians, argued back; no, we claim, the Holy Ghost did NOT impregnate Mary. Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father.

…and not by means of having sex with her. Many Christians out there have an excuse for perhaps believing that Mary was not a virgin at His birth. At least, I’ve heard the argument that “virgin’ used in the bible may have referred to 'woman of good (or royal) birth” or simply “unmarried woman.” Whether or not that is true, Mormons don’t have that excuse. You see, in the Book of Mormon it states ‘virgin’ in the English understanding of the word, meaning 'woman who has never had sexual intercourse." We believe that Mary was a virgin at the birth of her Son…which of course means that she didn’t have sex with anybody. Or Anybody.

I don’t understand why that is such a big deal to people, claiming that God is the physical Father of Jesus; after all, isn’t that what everybody has been claiming for 2000 years? It’s not exactly an impossibility, we mere mortals can do it now. In fact, I know a young woman who, for the love of her sister, carried and gave birth to her sister’s child. She was a virgin at the birth of that child. Not only did she NOT have sex with the father, she wasn’t genetically the mother of the baby, either. If we can do stuff like that, then it’s a little silly to claim that God could not.

(puffing hair out of eyes…) there. That settles that one.

I’ve also THOUGHT i seen somewhere that Jesus was the start of humanity … or something like that…

OK, now you’ve lost me.

ok so heres the Q’s…

Wait, weren’t you asking questions already? Do I need to go back and erase stuff?

1. Do you get to pick, or is the planet given to you?
2. If your wife dies first, does SHE get to pick the planet? or…where does she go until you get there and pick it out?
3. With what we know about the universe expanding, and ultimately disappearing into nothingness…what does that mean for the Gods of the planets on the universes outer edges? When, or if, the universe fades out into nothingness, what becomes of your Gods then?
   Was Jesus the God that populated THIS earth? if not who was?
   How could Jesus have been the start of humanity when there were people before him?
   If it WAS Jesus, than why doesnt he reside over this planet, why do you believe that he lives on a planet near the star KOBOL? or kobal…however its spelled???

First, I’m giving you major points for knowing that Kolob is a star. I’m taking half of them back for calling it “Kobol.” You’ve been watching Battlestar Gallactica too much.

As to the questions before the “Kobol” comment, you can pretty much throw them out, since they are, well, answered by the statement 'we don’t believe we will be gods of our own planets."

Sorry about that one.

Thnx…just those questions drove me crazy last night…i think in growing in other faiths its really helping me grow in mine, so i appreciate everyones tolerance on this thread …

Well, have a peaceful night’s sleep, knowing that they are answered. …

Diana

 

[PaulDupre]

Nope. God created the universe. All the planets are taken, since they are, y’know, HIS. What we believe is that we are literally His children, and that we may (emphasis on the ‘may’ ) be 'heirs and joint-heirs" with Christ and have all that He does. Follow the logic on that however you wish, but it doesn’t lead to populating planets. At least, not single planets.

Diana’s opinions do not reflect mainstream, historical Mormonism. Most Mormons believe they will rule over planets populated bu their spirit offspring. The reason for this belief? It was taught frankly and openly for 160 years by their prophets and apostles. Here is an example:

“The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

• Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation (Vol. 2 pg 48)

Again. whether they will admit it to us “gentiles” or not, the vast majority of Mormons still believe that if they are faithful, they will be gods ruling over planets populated by their own spirit offspring, who will worship them as God, the same as they worship their “Heavenly Father”.

Remember, Mormons consistently lie about what they and other LDS believe. They want to seem innocuous so that you will not fear to let the missionaries in.

Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[ParkerD]

Diana’s opinions do not reflect mainstream, historical Mormonism. Most Mormons believe they will rule over planets populated bu their spirit offspring. The reason for this belief? It was taught frankly and openly for 160 years by their prophets and apostles. Here is an example:

Again. whether they will admit it to us “gentiles” or not, the vast majority of Mormons still believe that if they are faithful, they will be gods ruling over planets populated by their own spirit offspring, who will worship them as God, the same as they worship their “Heavenly Father”.

Charlotte,
Now you see why your questions didn’t get answered right away. Paul was once LDS, and had the beliefs he stated here, I suppose (don’t know). I don’t have those beliefs in terms of thinking I would ever expect to be “worshipped”, but I do look forward to being able to love as God loves and have the joy of creativity and the joy of vast knowledge and living in Their presence and feeling Their joy. This is what is meant by inheriting a throne as described in the book of Revelation. Christ was willing to come to earth and suffer to provide us the possibility of inheriting the throne that He rightfully inherits. It’s not a meager plan–it is vast.

 

[PaulDupre]

Charlotte,
Now you see why your questions didn’t get answered right away. Paul was once LDS, and had the beliefs he stated here, I suppose (don’t know). I don’t have those beliefs in terms of thinking I would ever expect to be “worshipped”,

See what I mean about the lying and back-peddling? Here is what the LDS Church currently teaches. This is from the current Gospel Principles manual used in Sunday School to teach Mormons what they are expected to believe:

Our Heavenly Father is perfect. However, he is not jealous of his wisdom and perfection. He glories in the fact that it is possible for his children to become like him. He has said, “This is my work and my glory–to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).

They will become gods.

They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

They will receive a fulness of joy.

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have–all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

Note first that the current Sunday school manual quotes the same book by Joseph Fielding Smith that I quoted above. Notice also that the manual teaches that:

1. Mormons who are faithful to their church will become gods.
2. They will have spirit children
3. Their spirit children will have the same relationship to them that we have with our Heavenly Father (God).

The most distinguishing feature of our relationship with God is that we worship Him. If the Mormons’ spirit children will have this same relationship with them, then it necessarily follows that these Mormon “gods” will be worshipped by their spirit children.

Don’t let the Mormons dissemble. They are trying to fool you.

P.S.: If Parker really doesn’t believe he will be worshipped by his spirit children, then he does not understand the teachings of his church.

But I think he is just dissembling as usual.