Questions for Muslims

[freedomm]

Dear Eden,

Muslims **do not ** believe in any existing version of the Holy Bibles as word of God.

When the Holy Qur’an talks about the People of the Book, it refers to the previous revelations given to Allah’s Prophets such as Prophet Mosa (PBUH) was given Taurait, and Prophet Eisa (PBUH) was given Injeel.

Whoever followed these Prophets as they preached in their Prophets’ time or after before their books got corrupted, will be saved and they were Muslims (Muslims means those who surrendered their will to the Will of Allah–The God).

Later those who were followers (right or wrong) of Previous Prophets (PBUT) used to live in the Arab, used to call themselves AnNasara (Nazerites) and Yahood (Jews). These were also called as People of the Book in the Holy Qur’an, meaning to whom the revelation was given. Even these revelations they did not preserve it properly. This means, not everything of Taurait and Injeel was corrupted.

When the Holy Qur’an talks about "those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: “This is from God”, it refers to books other than the Taurait and Injeel and books in the name of Taurait and *injeel * but not the real revelations given to the Prophet Mosa and Prophet Eisa (PBUT).

Some of the People of the Book used to believe in the main precepts of their faith and it was not grossly corrupted. So the Holy Qur’an says:

Surah Al-'imran 3:113-117

Yet all the people of the Book are not alike: there are among them some who are steadfastly on the right path; who recite the Revelations of Allah at night and fall prostrate before Him; who believe in AIlah and the Last Day; who enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and remain earnestly engaged in good works; these are the righteous people, and whatever good they do, they will not be denied the just reward for it, for Allah knows full well the pious people.

As for those who have adopted the way of disbelief, neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them against Allah; they deserve Hell, and there they shall abide for ever. Whatever they are spending in this worldly life may be likened to the wind that brings frost in it and smites and destroys totally the tillage of those who have been unjust to themselves; Allah has not done any injustice to them but in fact they themselves are doing injustice to themselves.

---

Qoute:

In this similitude, “tillage” stands for human life, for one sows in it deeds or misdeeds which one shall have to harvest in the Next World. The “wind” refers to the superficial and hypocritical show of charity that impels the unbelievers to spend their wealth in charity and public works. And “frost” refers to the lack of faith and willingness to obey the Divine Law in its right spirit, which makes void the acts and deeds of one’s life. By this similitude, AIlah teaches this lesson; just as air is very useful for the growth of crops but it also destroys these if there is frost in it: in the same way charity helps nourish the harvest that is to be reaped in the Next World but it destroys the same, if it is poisoned with unbelief.

It is obvious that Allah is the Master of man as well as of the wealth that he possesses and of the kingdom in which he is acting. Now, if this slave of Allah does not acknowledge the Sovereignty of his Master or unlawfully sets up other objects of worship and dces not obey His Law in his exploitation of His wealth and kingdom, he shall be guilty of a crime. Therefore, he will not be entitled to any reward for his charity, but shall be prosecuted for his unlawful exploitation. The charity of such a man maybe likened to the charity of a servant who steals a sum of money from the treasure of his master and spends it as he likes.
—(Tafseer Assayyid Mawdoodi)​

 

[Eden]

Muslims **do not **believe in any version of the Holy Bibles.

Then why do Muslims claim that Isaiah 42 is uncorrupted and is a prophecy of Muhammad?

Here is what could be a prophecy of Muhammed in the Bible:

Galatians 1:6-9 Apostle Paul says “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Christ for a different religion. But even if an angel from heaven, should preach to you a different religion, let him be accursed.”

Do you think it possible that this is a genuine text from God and he foresaw Muhammad would be taught a new religion by an angel?

 

[freedomm]

Eden:

Then why do Muslims claim that Isaiah 42 is uncorrupted and is a prophecy of Muhammad?

Where in the text Holy Qur’an or the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), it is claimed?

 

[freedomm]

Dear Eden:

And what Prophet Jesus (PBUH) or the Injeel or all previous Prophets of God has to do with what so-called “Saint” Paul (an early persecutor of Jesus’ followers) say/preached?

If Jesus’ message is indeed recorded properly, in your eyes, then why do you need an early persecutor of Jesus’ true followers to explain what Jesus taught, when he was not even a disciple nor he ever met Jesus in Jesus’ life time?

How can you take words of St. Paul as “inspired” who was not attracted/impressed by Jesus’ miracles, worders and signs in Jesus’ life time but rather busy in persecuting Jesus’ folowers and working for Rome.

An unbias and independent study of your “scriptures” and of recently discovered Dead Sea Scrolls tells a totally different story than what your Church believe regarding Paul.

It is highly likely that Paul was a Roman Agent/informer whose job was to* ‘nail the Law to the cross’ * by hook or by crook and make the so-called “crucifixion” lawfull so that there should not be a revolt against the Rome or the Jews and at the same time people should not pay too much attention to abiding * the Divine Law*. The Divine Law, that Jesus actually came to restore and fulfill and demanded people to follow it for Eternal life. But Paul’s “mission” was exactly opposite, to free people from the bondage of the Divine Law.

Prophet Jesus (PBUH) mission was to bring people under the Sovereignty of his and your God; and Paul’s mission was to derail the whole mission of Prophet Jesus (PBUH) and make his Prophethood meaningless.

 

[freedomm]

Eden:

Then why do Muslims claim that Isaiah 42 is uncorrupted and is a prophecy of Muhammad?

Dear Eden:

Where in the text of the Holy Qur’an or the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), it is claimed?

---

 

[LilyM]

freedomm:

Dear Eden:

And what Prophet Jesus (PBUH) or the Injeel or all previous Prophets of God has to do with what so-called “Saint” Paul (an early persecutor of Jesus’ followers) say/preached?

If Jesus’ message is indeed recorded properly, in your eyes, then why do you need an early persecutor of Jesus’ true followers to explain what Jesus taught, when he was not even a disciple nor he ever met Jesus in Jesus’ life time?

How can you take words of St. Paul as “inspired” who was not attracted/impressed by Jesus’ miracles, worders and signs in Jesus’ life time but rather busy in persecuting Jesus’ folowers and working for Rome.

An unbias and independent study of your “scriptures” and of recently discovered Dead Sea Scrolls tells a totally different story than what your Church believe regarding Paul.

It is highly likely that Paul was a Roman Agent/informer whose job was to* ‘nail the Law to the cross’ * by hook or by crook and make the so-called “crucifixion” lawfull so that there should not be a revolt against the Rome or the Jews and at the same time people should not pay too much attention to abiding * the Divine Law*. The Divine Law, that Jesus actually came to restore and fulfill and demanded people to follow it for Eternal life. But Paul’s “mission” was exactly opposite, to free people from the bondage of the Divine Law.

Prophet Jesus (PBUH) mission was to bring people under the Sovereignty of his and your God; and Paul’s mission was to derail the whole mission of Prophet Jesus (PBUH) and make his Prophethood meaningless.

freedomm, you have now officially descended to talking gibberish, as in I literally cannot make head or tail of most of what you’re saying in this message.

I think the fact that Paul was martyred - killed as a Christian - should be enough to refute any accusations of his being a Roman spy - unless you believe his death was conveniently faked just like Jesus’ own death (notice a theme here?)

If your ‘evidence’ about Paul is as lame as the ‘evidence’ you’ve brought about your other points then I can’t wait to see it. Please do show us your ‘evidence’ - I haven’t had a good laugh today and i badly need one.

 

[Reuben_J]

Peace brother.

Welcome aboard again, mate. So you got locked out the last time, didn’t ya? You could have much more fruitful discussion here if you let go of your rhetoric and jumping from topic to topic in your anti-Christianity rants. Nobody will believe you anyway.

freedomm:

And what Prophet Jesus (PBUH) or the Injeel or all previous Prophets of God has to do with what so-called “Saint” Paul (an early persecutor of Jesus’ followers) say/preached?

Plenty. Saul the unbeliever was chosen by Jesus to serve Him as His apostle, and to make His name known to the Gentiles and Kings and to the people of Israel. And Jesus would show him all the he must suffer for His sake. The conversion of Saul happened at an encountered with the Lord Jesus on his way to Damascus. He was blinded in the eyes until miraculously healed by Ananias whom Jesus had earlier instructed in a separate incident. This great servant of God was to be called Paul during his service to the Lord.

This is interesting, the way Muslims demonized him. What is truly puzzling, if you can believe that Allah’s angel revealed His words to Muhammad without any witnesses whatsoever except for the miracles of the beauty of the Quran, then why can’t you take at least the logic of Paul’s conversion and apostleship? But you wouldn’t, would you?

freedomm:

If Jesus’ message is indeed recorded properly, in your eyes, then why do you need an early persecutor of Jesus’ true followers to explain what Jesus taught, when he was not even a disciple nor he ever met Jesus in Jesus’ life time?

Do you understand God’s plan and all that He has to do? As we could not, we don’t question God in His action as to why He did the things He did. We only know why unless being told to.

freedomm:

**It is highly likely ** that Paul was a Roman Agent/informer whose job was to nail the Law to the cross by hook or by crook and make the so-called “crucifixion” lawfull so that there should not be a revolt against the Rome or the Jews and at the same time people should not pay too much attention to abiding the Divine Law.

This is the kind of post that will get you locked out, my friend. You’d better be wise this time around otherwise you will exhaust all the dramatic names available for you to re-enter the forum.

**It is highly likely ** …. !!! What? Conjecture and without solid evidence amounts to accusation and belittling others’ religion. It is against the rule here.

God bless.

Reuben.

 

[freedomm]

LilyM:

I think the fact that Paul was martyred - killed as a Christian - should be enough to refute any accusations of his being a Roman spy - unless you believe his death was conveniently faked just like Jesus’ own death (notice a theme here?)

What you think, is your opinion from your own angle and **not necessarily ** a fact.

I recommend you these books:

The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by: Michael Baigent & Richard Leigh
[The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by Baigent and Leigh @ CenturyOne Bookstore]](The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by Baigent and Leigh @ CenturyOne Bookstore])

The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered: The First Complete Translation and Interpretation of 50 Key Documents Withheld for over 35 Years by:Robert H. Eisenman and Michael O. Wise

Robert Eisenman is Professor of Middle East Religions and Archaeology and Director of the Institute for the Study of Judeo-Christian Origins at California State University, Long Beach. He is a consultant for the Huntington Library in the struggle to free the Scrolls.
Michael Wise, who is among the foremost young scholars translating the Scrolls today, has been profiled in Time, the New York Times, and the Chicago Tribune.

[The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered by Eisenman and Wise @ CenturyOne Bookstore]](The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered by Eisenman and Wise @ CenturyOne Bookstore])

see next post for some qoutes from the book
The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by: Michael Baigent & Richard Leigh

 

[LilyM]

well neither of your links work … about what I expected.

I can hardly wait for your damning evidence :yawn:

 

[LilyM]

freedomm:

What you think, is your opinion from your own angle and **not necessarily ** a fact

As opposed to what YOU think, which of course is ALWAYS indisputable impeccably researched scholarly fact (and always right as well, of course)?

Billions of people agree with me that Paul was a Christian martyr - they may not be right but it DOES mean it’s far from just being my ‘opinion’.

 

[Reuben_J]

Dear freedomm,

Here is some of Paul’s writings. Ephesians 4:17-32.

17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.

20You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27and do not give the devil a foothold. 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Now please read this. This will not take much of your time. And tell us exactly what you do not agree with Paul’s teaching. Please.

Thank you.

Reuben.

 

[freedomm]

Reuben J:

You could have much more fruitful discussion here if you let go of your rhetoric and jumping from topic to topic in your anti-Christianity rants. Nobody will believe you anyway.

I am not anti-Christianity nor anti-Christians. I simply present/say what has happened and what is found in your “scriptures”.
Reuben J:

Saul the unbeliever was chosen by Jesus to serve Him as His apostle, and to make His name known to the Gentiles and Kings and to the people of Israel. And Jesus would show him all the he must suffer for His sake. The conversion of Saul happened at an encountered with the Lord Jesus on his way to Damascus. He was blinded in the eyes until miraculously healed by Ananias whom Jesus had earlier instructed in a separate incident.

But there are contradictions in the statements about Saul’s “vision” on the Damascus road.

It is hard to believe that Paul indeed had a real change of his heart.

In the absence of one true reliable verifiable version of his vision, the only choice left is to see what and how Paul behaved later.

Did he in fact preach, what Jesus’ preached or something else?

Had he preached samething as Jesus preached then why do you need him anyway, since it is Jesus who is the central/focal point of “Christianity”? No Jesus, no Christianity.

If Paul has preached contrary to Jesus’ preachings, then the whole mission of Jesus, his hardship, his all efforts become meaningless. Thus Paul actually derailed the main mission of Jesus by taking his place by over-praising him and making his so-called “death” legitimate/legal/lawfull with his rhetoric.

Dead Sea Scrolls add more evidence to believe that Paul was not what how Church perceived.

The following passages are from: ***The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception * ** by: Michael Baigent & Richard Leigh

Paul - Roman Agent or Informer?

With this grand design in mind, it is worth looking again at the confused and sketchy description of the events that occur towards the end of the Acts of the Apostles.
Paul, it will be remembered, after a prolonged evangelistic mission abroad, has again been summoned to Jerusalem by James and the irate hierarchy. Sensing trouble, his immediate supporters exhort him repeatedly, at each stage of his itenrary, not to go; but Paul, never a man to shrink from a confrontation, remains deaf to their appeals. Meeting with James and other members of the community’s leadership, he is again castigated for laxity in his observation of the Law. Acts does not record Paul’s response to these charges, but it would appear, from what follows, that he perjures himself, denying the accusations, against him, which his own letters reveal to have been justified (1). In other words, he recognises the magnitude of his offence; and however fierce his integrity, however fanatic his loyalty to ‘his’ version of Jesus, he acknowledges that some sort of compromise is, this time, necessary. Thus, when asked to purify himself for seven days and thereby demonstrate the unjustness of the allegations against him, he readily consents to do so.
[Robert] Eisenman suggests that James may have been aware of the true situation and that Paul may well have been ‘set up’. Had he refused the ritual of purification, he would have declared himself openly in defience of the Law. By acceding to the ritual, he became, even more than before, the ‘Liar’ of the ‘Habakkuk Commnetry’. Whatever the course of action he chose, he would have damned himself - which may have been precisely what James intended. (2).
In any case, and despite his exculpatory self-purification, Paul continues to inspire enmity in those ‘zealous for the Law’ - who, a few days later, attack him in the Temple. ‘This’, they proclaim, ‘is the man who preaches to everyone everywhere . . . . against the Law’ (Acts 21:28). The ensuing riot is no minor disturbance:

This roused the whole city: people came running from all sides; they seized Paul and dragged him out of the Temple, and the gates were closed behind them. They would have killed him if a report had not reached the tribune of the cohort that there was rioting all over Jerusalem. (Acts 21:30-31)​

(1). Especially 1 Corinthians 9:19-27. See Chapter 11 n. 8 of The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception (2). Eisenman to authors of The Dead Sea Scrolls, 24 August 1990

 

[freedomm]

Reuben J:

This is interesting, the way Muslims demonized him. What is truly puzzling, if you can believe that Allah’s angel revealed His words to Muhammad without any witnesses whatsoever except for the miracles of the beauty of the Quran, then why can’t you take at least the logic of Paul’s conversion and apostleship? But you wouldn’t, would you?

This analogy is irrelevant because Paul is not a Prophet appointed by God. Paul is not even among the 12 disciples. Statements about his “vision” on Damascus road are contradictory on top of that. Then what he did later determines his real position.
Reuben J:

Do you understand God’s plan and all that He has to do? As we could not, we don’t question God in His action as to why He did the things He did. We only know why unless being told to.

You cannot assume anything from your own and attribute it to God and then pose such question as “Do you understand God’s plan?..” This plan is actually creation of your mind and not of God. Anybody can say/believe anything and then demand “don’t question God?”

 

[Reuben_J]

freedomm:

I am not anti-Christianity nor anti-Christians. I simply present/say what has happened and what is found in your “scriptures”.

No you didn’t. I’ve just shown one of your posts as an example and how absurd it was.

It is **highly likely ** that Paul was a Roman Agent/informer whose job was to ‘nail the Law to the cross’ by hook or by crook and make the so-called “crucifixion” lawfull so that there should not be a revolt against the Rome or the Jews and at the same time people should not pay too much attention to abiding the Divine Law. The Divine Law, that Jesus actually came to restore and fulfill and demanded people to follow it for Eternal life. But Paul’s “mission” was exactly opposite, to free people from the bondage of the Divine Law.

Prophet Jesus (PBUH) mission was to bring people under the Sovereignty of his and your God; and Paul’s mission was to derail the whole mission of Prophet Jesus (PBUH) and make his Prophethood meaningless.

You insinuated that Paul was **highly likely ** (your own admission) a Roman agent without any backing whatsoever. For such a serious accusation surely you at least provide us with some kinds of evidence. Or don’t you realize how serious is such statement to the Christians?

freedomm:

But there are contradictions in the statements about Saul’s “vision” on the Damascus road.

Give us the contradictions please.

freedomm:

It is **hard to believe ** that Paul indeed had a real change of his heart.

In the absence of one true reliable verifiable version of his vision, the only choice left is to see what and how Paul behaved later.

Again, it is hard to believe…. line. We know you don’t believe in the Bible, let alone Paul. In order to make discussion works, you need to come with solid argument to back your statement. Otherwise, it’s just your opinion.

OK. Why do you say that there is no “real change of heart” for Paul after the encounter with Jesus?

I’m really bending backward to accommodate your tactic, but that’s because I want you to stay here longer and not get locked out by the moderator, and have good discussion, debate, comparison and argument about our respective religions. You got it, buddy?

freedomm:

Did he in fact preach, what Jesus’ preached or something else?

Please answer that question and give example for your answer.

freedomm:

Had he preached samething as Jesus preached then why do you need him anyway, since it is Jesus who is the central/focal point of “Christianity”? No Jesus, no Christianity.

That’s good question. More like it. Many Catholics here would be just happy to explain this to you. True, Jesus is the “focal point”, and no Jesus, no Christianity.

You have to understand Christianity is a religion that’s apostolic. What Jesus did and said was brought down through succession of his apostles as witnesses. The Bible is not Jesus’ dictation, unlike the Quran, which was dictated to Muhammad word for word. (Regarding Islam, correct me if I’m wrong, even in the usage of word).

It’s the message that’s important in the Bible, and as such, it’s uncorrupted. Thus we had the apostles taught early Christians about this message. What’s the message? We call it the Gospel – the good news. This is actually another topic already. So we need Paul to bring out that message. We need the doctors of the church. We need even people like Reuben J . How much can we do, that’s depending on our given talent.

Contd …/

 

[Reuben_J]

…/Contd and end.

freedomm:

If Paul has preached contrary to Jesus’ preachings, then the whole mission of Jesus, his hardship, his all efforts become meaningless. Thus Paul actually derailed the main mission of Jesus by taking his place by over-praising him and making his so-called “death” legitimate/legal/lawfull with his rhetoric.

Dead Sea Scrolls add more evidence to believe that Paul was not what how Church perceived.

The following passages are from: The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by: Michael Baigent & Richard Leigh
Paul - Roman Agent or Informer?
With this grand design in mind, it is worth looking again at the confused and sketchy description of the events that occur towards the end of the Acts of the Apostles.
Paul, it will be remembered, after a prolonged evangelistic mission abroad, has again been summoned to Jerusalem by James and the irate hierarchy. Sensing trouble, his immediate supporters exhort him repeatedly, at each stage of his itenrary, not to go; but Paul, never a man to shrink from a confrontation, remains deaf to their appeals. Meeting with James and other members of the community’s leadership, he is again castigated for laxity in his observation of the Law. Acts does not record Paul’s response to these charges, but it would appear, from what follows, that he perjures himself, denying the accusations, against him, which his own letters reveal to have been justified (1). In other words, he recognises the magnitude of his offence; and however fierce his integrity, however fanatic his loyalty to ‘his’ version of Jesus, he acknowledges that some sort of compromise is, this time, necessary. Thus, when asked to purify himself for seven days and thereby demonstrate the unjustness of the allegations against him, he readily consents to do so.
[Robert] Eisenman suggests that James may have been aware of the true situation and that Paul may well have been ‘set up’. Had he refused the ritual of purification, he would have declared himself openly in defience of the Law. By acceding to the ritual, he became, even more than before, the ‘Liar’ of the ‘Habakkuk Commnetry’. Whatever the course of action he chose, he would have damned himself - which may have been precisely what James intended. (2).
In any case, and despite his exculpatory self-purification, Paul continues to inspire enmity in those ‘zealous for the Law’ - who, a few days later, attack him in the Temple. ‘This’, they proclaim, ‘is the man who preaches to everyone everywhere . . . . against the Law’ (Acts 21:28). The ensuing riot is no minor disturbance:
This roused the whole city: people came running from all sides; they seized Paul and dragged him out of the Temple, and the gates were closed behind them. They would have killed him if a report had not reached the tribune of the cohort that there was rioting all over Jerusalem. (Acts 21:30-31)
(1). Especially 1 Corinthians 9:19-27. See Chapter 11 n. 8 of The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception (2). Eisenman to authors of The Dead Sea Scrolls, 24 August 1990

I’m not at liberty to refute this. I hope other Catholics will address this for you. What we know is that early Christians were being persecuted by the elders and the Sanhedrin (the Jews) and anyone preaching about the new message of Jesus would be hunted accordingly, an activity that Saul did earlier on. It is already a miracle for the apostles, even more so for Paul, to boldly preach the God News.
Reuben J:

This is interesting, the way Muslims demonized him. What is truly puzzling, if you can believe that Allah’s angel revealed His words to Muhammad without any witnesses whatsoever except for the miracles of the beauty of the Quran, then why can’t you take at least the logic of Paul’s conversion and apostleship? But you wouldn’t, would you?

freedomm:

This analogy is irrelevant because Paul is not a Prophet appointed by God. Paul is not even among the 12 disciples. Statements about his “vision” on Damascus road are contradictory on top of that. Then what he did later determines his real position.

What irrelevant? It’s just your definition that he “is not a Prophet appointed by God”. I told you already that God (Jesus) chose him.

Tell us what’s the contradictory and what he did later, please.

freedomm:

You cannot assume anything from your own and attribute it to God and then pose such question as “Do you understand God’s plan?..” This plan is actually creation of your mind and not of God. Anybody can say/believe anything and then demand “don’t question God?”

I didn’t assume, bud. It’s was a response to your hypothetical question. I don’t know why things happened as they were and I don’t question God for them. As a matter of faith, we can say that for Islam as well. But perhaps I was a bit impatient with you. Yes, I could have answered you then. Maybe we can have a fresh start, shall we?

God bless you.

Reuben.

 

[inJESUS]

hey Justice/Freedom/muslim,
the corruption of Bible thread is still there and not refuted so far…use THAT thread if you want to continue your claims…We believe in a God who keeps His word…your allah who cannot keep his word has a different name for us.

And guess what? the quran you have now is not what mohammad intended coz it was written by men, and Uthman accepted the copy of Zaid who wasnt even one of the 4 mohammad wanted, and Uthman burnt all the qurans of his time…until you get us a quran that slipt Uthman’s fire, we don’t buy your claims.

furthermore, the quran was written without vowels…and you can NEVER be sure that the millions of vowels inserted LATER are what mohammad uttered…

See? i can give you a hard time as well regarding corruption, from your own hadith.

bottom line : we believe in God who keeps His word, not in a discriminating, not omnipotent deity called allah who didnt even know what happened to Jesus and who asked you to read and venerate a non-existent Bible for 3000 years.

If you want to know what exactly is the quran, and where its doctrines come from, i challenge you to read :
muhammadanism.com/haddad/nazaritic_mission/quran_nazaritic_mission_1.pdf

muhammadanism.com/haddad/nazaritic_mission/quran_nazaritic_mission_2.pdf

Unless you read this book and debate it, you are not worth any more attention cuz you obviously are not interested in history or truth…if you want to follow the anti-Christ, suit yourself, but am giving you the chance to know what your book is all about.

As to Paul, you can consider him whatever you like, but he was indeed far superior in morality than a self-proclaimed prophet.
And do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit …yes you are when you ironically say : the Spirit did that and did not do that…you obviously lack the basic understanding of anything regarding our doctrines…keep on the level of your prophet if you are unable to grasp others’ doctrines…

I’m here if you have the guts to discuss the book i gave.

 

[inJESUS]

oh…here you are again with the Dead Sea Scroll deception…i told you before this book has been refuted…but nevermind…here is the clue : the book testifies to the OT we have today…face it…the Dead Sea Scrolls proved mohammad ( i think muslims) pathetic liars…i said muslims because mohammad attested to the Bible…and get used to it : this is the ONLY Bible that Jews and Christians have…you can babble till the jusgment day…but this is a 2500 years history…if you can’t refute history and give meaningful evidences, then save your breath.

 

[inJESUS]

back to our question,
what pictures exactly are forbidden in islam? and i’d appreciate some quranic verses to back it up so that this topic is settled once for all. thx

 

[Eden]

Where in the text of the Holy Qur’an or the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), it is claimed?

So, can you show me where it says in the Quran that the Bible is corrupted? You base all of your responses on the idea that this is so.

In fact, there is no passage and the Quran that says the Bible is lost, altered or corrupted. So, can you give us answers without working from the premise that the Bible is corrupted?

 

[inJESUS]

no he can’t…furthermore allah says he keeps his word…where has his word (including the Holy Bible) been for 3000 years? did he forget his promise or maybe he couldn’t fulfill it? Our God fulfills His promises and we believe Him cuz He is Truth…what about allah?