Questions for Protestants

[ahimsaman72]

Darrel:

Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D

Banning gay men from the seminary and priesthood is logical and a first step in curtailing possible abuses involving priests and parishioners. The Catechism itself says that homosexuality is “disordered” conduct, so why doesn’t it make sense that homosexual priests be banned?

You have to start somewhere in not only addressing priestly sexual abuse, but also make a stand for holiness and for setting a good example for the rest of the world. As a Baptist, I have only known harsh criticism of homosexuality and the lifestyle. Conservatism is right in the heart of the Baptist churches and other denoms such as Church of God, Assemblies of God, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc.

I never knew there were liberals in denoms like Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc. I just figured everybody was conservative like Baptists ! So, the issue is a no-brainer to me - even though I’ve become pretty liberal in my views compared to my younger days. I still feel that clergy should be held to higher standards than the parishioners.

Peace…

 

[jim1130]

Darrel:

Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D

I think that the anti-Catholic bias in this country is so deep that you will not see that many people converting to Catholicism. My guess is that the anti-Papcy/anti-Romanish crowd would put an “intolerance” spin on it to make it as tasteful as sour milk or spoiled eggs. Peace. Jim

 

[Mickey]

jim1130:

I think that the anti-Catholic bias in this country is so deep that you will not see that many people converting to Catholicism. My guess is that the anti-Papcy/anti-Romanish crowd would put an “intolerance” spin on it to make it as tasteful as sour milk or spoiled eggs. Peace. Jim

With God, all things are possible.
img448.imageshack.us/img448/6213/3barcross6aa.gif

 

[smelton]

Maybe its not so much anti-catholic or anti-papacy as it is that they simply disagree with the stance? Just a thought.

 

[jim1130]

smelton:

Maybe its not so much anti-catholic or anti-papacy as it is that they simply disagree with the stance? Just a thought.

I am probably just being a cynic. Sorry for being pessimistic.

 

[Ryniev]

smelton:

Maybe its not so much anti-catholic or anti-papacy as it is that they simply disagree with the stance? Just a thought.

Honestly, It’s one of the things that has happened since I’ve started RCIA that has made me reconsider.

 

[jim1130]

Ryniev:

Honestly, It’s one of the things that has happened since I’ve started RCIA that has made me reconsider.

Would you be willing to explain/elaborate? Jim

 

[Ryniev]

jim1130:

Would you be willing to explain/elaborate? Jim

If Priests are supposed to be celibate why would it matter what their sexual orientation is?

Or do I misunderstand the issue?

 

[Shibboleth]

Celtic Son:

My personal opinion on the reasonit matters is somewhere inthe Bible does it not say that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God? I was raised church of God and recently converted also. And the Church of God always spke out against homo preachers.Idontknow what they do now though. But if someone is homosexually oriented and celibate , wouldn’t they still committing this abomination intheir mind? that is my opinion though. I also agree with the earlier post of the RCC should speak out against the porno problem person as well and if you have a problem with porn then not let you inseminary until and if you can stop this behavior.

maybe Ijust expect too much from other people and myself but Ithink we are called to live a Holy life. These are just my opinions,

In regards to abomination that is in Leviticus where it is also talking about the abominations of wearing two different kinds of fibers, or planting certain crops together… of course all of these Levitical Requirements were completed by Christ so you cannot use this particular verse as an argument.

You do have a few NT verses at your disposal but the Corinthians and Tim quotes were relatively recently translated to include the word Homosexual so your best bet is in Romans where there is talk about Pagan worship.

We are all sinners so the question more lies with what sins are such that they exclude one from the Priesthood. I think in this situation it is not a way of saying Homosexuals are worse than any other Priest in their transgressions so much as a message that the prevailing opinion that Homosexuality is not a sin is incorrect.

The Catholic Church has a tendency to pass disciplinary laws in order to teach and not so much for the purposes of exclusion.

For instance when the Catholic Church started administering the Eucharist only under one kind it was to combat the heterodox concept that the bread did not contain both the body and blood of Christ.

We were all dead in transgressions but we were washed and made clean by Christ so that the rich need not try to pass a camel through the eye of a needle nor do we have to keep all God’s laws to enter the kingdom of heaven. The Christ has done this for us…

 

[flameburns623]

Ryniev:

If Priests are supposed to be celibate why would it matter what their sexual orientation is?

Or do I misunderstand the issue?

Yeah, pretty much.

First–homosexuality is understood by the contemporary Magisterium as an ‘objective disorder’–akin to a mental disorder, certainly a spiritual disorder. Since homosexuals are de facto somewhat less than perfectly sound persons in the opinion of the Magisterium, encouraging them to enter the priesthood is not far removed from encouraging schizophrenics or manic-depressives to enter the priesthood.

Second–homosexual activists within the priesthood, even if professedly celibate, undermine the teaching of the Church that homosexual behavior is always and everywhere morally wrong. It has been alleged that a homosexual subculture permeates a great many seminaries and other Catholic institutions. And there is some suspicion I think that at least some homosexuals enter the priesthood as agents-of-change, deliberately seeking to subvert the historic moral teaching of the RCC. I for one suspect this is exactly how the Episcopal Church, USA got co-opted–a tolerance for people who openly admitted that their ‘orientation’ was homosexual, even though they often strenuously protested that they were living morally chaste lives.

Third–many homosexuals who become priests have not remained celibate. And, in vastly disporportionate numbers, they have sought out lovers who were minor boys. It is a longstanding impression among heterosexuals that the homosexual culture places a great premium upon youth, and that in fact that homosexuality perpetuates itself NOT because it is an in-born predilection, but rather by proselytisation. AFTER young men or women are seduced into the lifestyle, many or most re-interpret their past experiences in such a way that they perceive themselves as ‘always gay’.

Homosexual activists of course vehemently deny this, but the perception, the belief persists. (I happen to share this belief btw).

So there are just a few of the reasons why it ‘makes a difference’ whether or not a candidate for the priesthood self-identifies as a homosexual.

 

[Shibboleth]

Incidentally when one thinks of ultra-conservative in regards to homosexuality certain branches of Protestantism are far more aggressive against such things that Catholicism.

If a Methodist or ELCA member is frustrated with the Homosexual issue they are probably more likely to enter into the LC_MS, WELS, or some other synod that has taken a definitive and direct stance on the issue.

 

[jpete79]

LittleDeb:

Yep, said heterosexual man, who is married to the Church, would behave towards his parishoners similarly to how any other married man might behave. The priest just has a perfect Bride while the rest of the men (and women) have fallible spouses. His Bride is never jealous or unreasonable. She does, however, command and require much more of him. How this might place the priest into the occasion of sin is really up to him. His desire for his spouse, the Church, is an ordered desire either way.

I am just curious…I thought the Church was the Bride of Christ, not the Bride of a Priest…

 

[Aaron_I]

jpete79:

I am just curious…I thought the Church was the Bride of Christ, not the Bride of a Priest…

Yes, however the priest acts In Persona Christe (spelled wrong I’m sure).

 

[ben_dy]

awalt:

There have been a couple of articles in our local papers over the last 4-6 months where more conservative Protestants are leaving their churches because they see the continued change in doctrine, as interpreted by today’s leaders in today’s times, as an affirmation there must be a more singular truth to pursue. The specific issues cited were women in the clergy interestingly enough, and ordaining homosexuals.

There was the mass (no pun intended) of Anglican priests that came into the Catholic Church in or around 1994 when women began to be ordained in that sect and, if the Episcopal church in the U.S. continues in it’s promotion of a homosexual agenda in electing openly homosexual bishops, I would say that the Catholic Church can only stand to gain there as well. It’s a shame, sort of - it’s not “the” reason I would like to see our separated brethren return to Christ’s Church but if these are true carefully considered conversions guided by conscience as well as the Holy Spirit I, for one, will gladly embrace those who accept the seat offered by Christ at the Eucharistic Banquet!

 

[ben_dy]

DJgang:

Darrel, to be honest…YES. I have considered, am considering, etc. I am waiting to see what happens in 2008 (I think) between the Episcopal Church USA and Anglican Church. And you know the issue that I am talking about.

Isn’t there a 3 year ban on some decision-making level of the Anglican Communion against the Episcopal churches of the U.S. and Canada in reference to the election of the first openly homosexual bishop in the U.S. and the ‘blessing’ of homosexual ‘unions’ in both the U.S. and Canada? I remember reading something about that in February or March of this year but I don’t believe I saved the information and, in this case, my Googling is not providing me with the answer I was hoping to find. What’s the scoop? Can you just point me in the right direction? Doesn’t the Episcopal U.S. church have general synods every three years as well?

Don’t talk in code! Let us Catholics know if we need to be installing more seating! Because I certainly don’t know what you’re talking about but am certainly curious now… Anglican ‘disbarment’? A gay bishop in every other state by 2008? Gene Robinson has certainly made no secret of his agenda - but I can’t imagine that he speaks for the majority of the members of the U.S. Episcopal church??? Tell us, please… what is expected to occur in three years (well, other than a U.S. presidential election)?

 

[jim1130]

flameburns623:

Yeah, pretty much.

First–homosexuality is understood by the contemporary Magisterium as an ‘objective disorder’–akin to a mental disorder, certainly a spiritual disorder. Since homosexuals are de facto somewhat less than perfectly sound persons in the opinion of the Magisterium, encouraging them to enter the priesthood is not far removed from encouraging schizophrenics or manic-depressives to enter the priesthood.

Second–homosexual activists within the priesthood, even if professedly celibate, undermine the teaching of the Church that homosexual behavior is always and everywhere morally wrong. It has been alleged that a homosexual subculture permeates a great many seminaries and other Catholic institutions. And there is some suspicion I think that at least some homosexuals enter the priesthood as agents-of-change, deliberately seeking to subvert the historic moral teaching of the RCC. I for one suspect this is exactly how the Episcopal Church, USA got co-opted–a tolerance for people who openly admitted that their ‘orientation’ was homosexual, even though they often strenuously protested that they were living morally chaste lives.

Third–many homosexuals who become priests have not remained celibate. And, in vastly disporportionate numbers, they have sought out lovers who were minor boys. It is a longstanding impression among heterosexuals that the homosexual culture places a great premium upon youth, and that in fact that homosexuality perpetuates itself NOT because it is an in-born predilection, but rather by proselytisation. AFTER young men or women are seduced into the lifestyle, many or most re-interpret their past experiences in such a way that they perceive themselves as ‘always gay’.

Homosexual activists of course vehemently deny this, but the perception, the belief persists. (I happen to share this belief btw).

So there are just a few of the reasons why it ‘makes a difference’ whether or not a candidate for the priesthood self-identifies as a homosexual.

Very well said and stated. I appreciate how you presented your position. I feel similarly, but since I lack the eloquence my bumbling and stumbling would result in accusations of intolerance and bigotry, often the last resort of someone who feels threatened by an opposite position or stance.

 

[Anglican77]

Darrel:

Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D

I have been considering it for some time now. As a current member of the Episcopal Church, this issue along with allowing women to be ministers, has caused me to go on a quest for a new church. I still have reservations about Catholicism, but I am trying to learn and have found a Church near my house to start attending.

 

[Shibboleth]

In regards to some of the posts… Pedophilia has little or nothing to do with sexual orientation. Almost all male pedophiles that have been convicted of molesting boys consider themselves to be heterosexual.

 

[kylemeko]

Shibboleth:

In regards to some of the posts… Pedophilia has little or nothing to do with sexual orientation. Almost all male pedophiles that have been convicted of molesting boys consider themselves to be heterosexual.

Shibboleth if they consider them self heterosexual or not does not matter. If there attraction is for someone of the same gender (young boys) then they are homosexual or at least bisexual.

 

[Shibboleth]

kylemeko:

Shibboleth if they consider them self heterosexual or not does not matter. If there attraction is for someone of the same gender (young boys) then they are homosexual or at least bisexual.

**Warning some graphic nature in the post below…. **

No sexual orientation is in regards to whether or not a person is attracted to one particular sex – male or female. Pedophiles are not attracted to the gender of the individual but the youth – much in the same way that a person that commits abomination with animals it matters little as to the sex of the animal and has everything to do with the nature of the animal.

There has been eye dilation tests and flaccidity tests on pedophiles (these tests accurately show sexual attraction.) Time and again these tests are showing that the male pedophiles either are only attracted to youth or are overwhelmingly attracted to youth and women. Rarely do they see that a pedophile displays attraction to both boys and men and in these rare cases they tend to be honest that they are homosexual. Whatever the underlying cause is that leads to sexual orientation it apparently is not related to pedophilia.

Incidentally, when pedophiles describe what is arousing to them in their victims it is usually the submissive feminine qualities still present in young males.

In college I worked with a professor at the South Dakota State Penitentiary studying this and other things – just so you know where I am getting my background of information on the subject.