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BeProf
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It wasn’t that bad. Most of the rumors are a bit overblown.
I mean… sure… after one year I transferred my hind end out of there so fast it made their heads spin… but it was good for me.
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I mean… sure… after one year I transferred my hind end out of there so fast it made their heads spin… but it was good for me.
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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OK
it is really starting to scare me Edwin. I have lived all over the US—from So.CA to the PacNW to New England to the South and the extremists are taking over everywhere!
the particular conversation I had with my brother was about my husband losing his job because someone in his office does not like Catholics and is very upset about the sex scandals. We can’t prove this, but we have good reason to belief it is so. My brother not only did not admit that this is wrong, he actually questioned whether I was a Christian! I was stunned–altho I don’t know why, the man is a narcissist who uses religion to support his own ego as much as a Satanist.
it gets overwhelming sometimes --and I am no longer in the ‘deep’ South. I found New England and CA to be so liberal they didn’t believe in anything—Protestant and Catholic. I am starting to think I need to leave the US.
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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I am not saying this to be offensive to you, but is there a difference between Fundamentalists and Evangelicals that people outside of both groups can see? What would be just a Fundamentalist and just an Evangelical? Most I know of are both. And I do realize not all of them follow Prosperity Theology. But it seems to be a popular movement in the ‘christian’ media–ala TBN, INSP etc…
I don’t have a problem asking on this thread but if the mods prefer we can take it private in messages. (I just did not want to have another thread fall victim to the arguing over the ‘true Church’ statement…)
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Ahimsa
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You need to move to Maryland. It was founded just for Catholics.
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pmoo
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As a recent convert to Catholicism from Protestantism, I simply didn’t know anything about the Catholic beliefs until going through RCIA. I knew a little about Luther, but just really didn’t have any info. To me, now that I know about Peter and apostolic succession, Catholicism is the only religion that makes sense.ok what I see that most Protestants have a problem with recently is the Pope saying the Catholic Church is the only true Church (NOT as some mistakenly believe that we are the only ones with truth–there is some truth in all religions, the Catholic Church is just where the fullness of truth resides.)
anyway…if you Protestants believe that all of the churches who call themselves Christian are equally true, then why can’t you allow that to extend to the Catholic Church too? Isn’t it hypocritical to claim all Christians are Christian EXCEPT Catholic Christians?
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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most of the stuff I am getting seems to be because of the timing of the Pope’s True Church paper (is it an encyclical?) The problem is that just a few days after the LA Diocese settles $$$ on the sex scandal it came out. As far as the sex scandals the Church was very very wrong, there is no excuse. But it will never happen again because now we are trying to make it impossible for it to happen again and trying to fix what we can. I know for a fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses have 43,000 reports that are uninvestigated and unreported of sexual abuse( www.silentlambs.org)). The biggest abusers of children are in the school systems. The Catholic Church is not the only offender–what do people want us to do? We can’t change history. We can only say we are truly sorry, not let it happen again and go on. But what does all of that really have anything to do with the Catholic Church being the true Church? In fact if you think about it the true Church would be attacked by the Evil One in just such ways!
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rr1213
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…if you Protestants believe that all of the churches who call themselves Christian are equally true, then why can’t you allow that to extend to the Catholic Church too? Isn’t it hypocritical to claim all Christians are Christian EXCEPT Catholic Christians?
Most Protestants do believe that Catholics are Christians, albeit Christians who in the Protestant viewpoint hold certain unbiblical beliefs. Most Catholics return the favor of course, even if they do think that Protestants are heretics.
I’ve lived most of my life South of the Mason Dixon Line, including almost 20 years in the Capital of the Confederacy. I’ve attended Church of numerous Protestant demominations. Respectfully, I don’t think your experience is typical.
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Fisher
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For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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I have thot about it.You need to move to Maryland. It was founded just for Catholics.
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rr1213
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In many ways, Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are on the same wavelength from a theological standpoint. Further, while both tend to be conservative politically, you will find examples of politically liberal Evangelicals (Jimmy Carter being perhaps one of the best known examples, the Sojourners, etc). There are few examples of politically liberal Fundamentalists. I’ve also heard it said–tongue in cheek–that “an Evangelical is a nice and polite Fundamentalist”! Of course, that’s a slander on Fundamentalists because most of them of perfectly nice and polite also.
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Ahimsa
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Here’s a nice rule of thumb:
Evangelicals ask “Do you know Jesus?”
Fundamentalists ask “Do you know Jesus will send you to hell if you don’t repent?”
Evangelicals ask “Do you know Jesus?”
Fundamentalists ask “Do you know Jesus will send you to hell if you don’t repent?”
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BeProf
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That’s a fair question, and the honest answer is that it’s not easy to visually identify the difference. The two movements only recently (circa 1970s) became fully distinct from each other. Generally speaking a Fundamentalist won’t talk to you if you’re Catholic, except to “witness” to you.
An Evangelical’s reaction to a Catholic will vary. Most of us will probably be ill informed about what the Catholic Church really teaches (which is why sites like this are so important). If we say things like “Don’t you guys worship Mary?” please don’t hold it against us because most of us don’t know any better. Gently correct us and then move on from there. Informed Evangelicals will generally be respectful and charitable. We may not accept the authority of the Pope, but we don’t think he’s the anti-christ either.
As a visual guide… Fundamentalists generally look grumpy, wear suit and tie to church, and have wives that wear skirts down below their knees at all times. They don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t gamble, don’t associate with people who do and really have a bug up their butts about “compromise.”
Evangelicals generally look like regular folks. Sometimes you’ll run into a “happy clappy” who’s a little out there, but we’re generally nice people… at least I hope we are.
Technically speaking, that’s not really possible. One is either a Fundamentalist or one isn’t. That’s a common misconception I run into among cradle Catholics. The exact differences between the two are kind of hard to explain without a full treatment of the history of the Fundamentalist movement. Suffice it to say that the two terms used to be interchangeable but, starting in the 50s and fully in the 70s, the two terms came to be applied to two different movements. The dividing line between the two is the fact that Fundamentalists believe in strict Separation from the world (read: anybody they don’t agree with 100%) and Evangelicals don’t (read: as long as you accept the basics of the Christian faith, they’re willing to work with you).
It certainly is popular on those networks, but those networks aren’t generically Evangelical, they’re Word-Faith Pentecostal (a subset of Evangelical). Outside of that narrow movement, most of that Benny Hinn stuff doesn’t fly. We just don’t operate TV networks.
PS - I’d just like to say that my primary reason in being here as an Evangelical Protestant is because of ministries like this and EWTN who disabused me of my many misconceptions about what Catholics believe. I have noticed similar misconceptions among cradle catholics about just what we Evangelical Protestants believe. I’m returning the favor. I’m not here to try to convert anybody because I don’t believe that Catholics are in need of it (except in the sense that we all could use a little more conversion).
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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wow. thanks. that is the nicest thing I have ever heard any Protestant say. I like you.Glad to be your Christian sibling.
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teachccd
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My contention has always been that a person does not have to agree with Catholicism, however be accurate in what it is that one disagrees with. And, as a Roman Catholic who speaks with many Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians I try to return the favor. More often than not Protestants hate the things that we don’t do and that I would despise myself. Praying to statutes, worshipping saints, killing Jesus over and over again on the altar, EESHHH. I’d run from that too!!! May God bless you and thank you for the kind words…teachccd
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RevDrNorth
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EWTN is a wonderful God send. God has used Mother Angelica mightily for orthodox Catholicism:thumbsup:
Rev North (Gen X Anglo Catholic)
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christcnection1
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Indeed, we see things very differently, though I do not doubt the sincerity of your intentions.
His peace be with you…
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holy_wood
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Contarini
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This is a matter of definition. But I think the attempts of more moderate evangelicals to exclude fundamentalists from the definition are misguided. The two categories shade into each other, and I think fundamentalists are best understood as a subset of evangelicals.
One interesting typographical convention is that the more hardline, quasi-fundamentalist evangelicals are more likely to capitalize the term. I would never describe myself as an Evangelical, but I would describe myself as an evangelical.
No, I wish it were that simple, but it isn’t.
You have the real, hardline fundamentalists who believe in KJV only, etc. But many moderate and liberal evangelicals will, for instance, call anyone who believes in inerrancy a fundamentalist. Yet other self-proclaimed evangelicals (or more likely Evangelicals) will insist that inerrancy is a basic belief of Evangelicals. The definitions are fluid. I think the clearest way of defining the difference is in attitudes toward those who differ (including Catholics). A fundamentalist insists on separation from all those who hold differing theological views; evangelicals are by and large more open.
Yes, I agree with this. However, what the “basics” are is a matter of debate. Many “Evangelicals” would say that sola fide in the Protestant sense is an essential of the faith. To more moderate evangelicals, this looks rather “fundamentalist.” It’s simply not that straightforward.
What you are calling evangelicals are more strictly called “neo-evangelicals.” Many people are suspicious of “neo-evangelicalism” but claim the old-fashioned label of Evangelical, while being regarded by neo-evangelicals as fundamentalists.
There simply are no clear-cut dividing lines, but what can be said is that fundamentalists occupy the hardline end of the spectrum.
Edwin
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Contarini
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That is not my impression. On the whole I find anti-Catholicism among evangelicals to be way down from what it was when I was a kid (about 20 years ago–I’m 33). That may be largely because I move in less conservative circles, but I don’t think it is entirely so. I think anti-Catholicism in the broader secular/liberal culture has probably increased. In the 70s and 80s mainline liberals were quite friendly to Catholics, I think, because it looked as if Catholics (in the U.S. anyway) were turning into just another nice mainline denomination. Now it is clear that this is not the case, and Catholicism is speaking out with increasing boldness. So liberal Christians and secular folks are becoming more hostile. But for that very reason, evangelicals are becoming friendlier to Catholicism, outside the hardline wing that will never soften or back down. And many of the more conservative mainline folks are becoming positively enamored with Catholicism (Duke Divinity School is Exhibit A for this–another example is this essay by the Methodist theologian Stephen Long).OK
it is really starting to scare me Edwin. I have lived all over the US—from So.CA to the PacNW to New England to the South and the extremists are taking over everywhere!
Well, you find those in all churches and religions, I’m afraid (narcissists, not Satanists!).
I hear what you are saying. I was surprised at the level of anti-Catholicism I found in New Jersey. I guess I shouldn’t have been, since it’s a strongly Catholic area and people who don’t belong to the majority religious group in any area usually resent it, and since Catholicism sticks in the throat of East Coast liberals. (Episcopalians in the South tend to be quite friendly toward Catholics because they are allies against the Baptists! Episcopalians in New Jersey have a very different attitude.) However, none of the mainline liberals I knew in New Jersey would deny that Catholics were Christians. That is, by and large, not something mainline Protestants do.
Where would you go, if I might ask?
And have you by any chance ever lived in the Midwest? There certainly is anti-Catholicism here too, but by and large Midwestern evangelicals are more moderate than Southerners, and where I live I see a lot of opportunities for evangelical-Catholic dialogue (I chaired an ecumenical discussion panel last spring at the Protestant college where I teach).
Edwin
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desertwoman
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I have no qualms with it at all. Somebody has to have it right after all.
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