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Coder
Guest
I see what you are saying however consider that the ability to pary to Mary is part of God’s gift of salvation to us. It is a gift to both Mary and us. God gives Mary to you as mother.
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Kristina_P
Guest
I have a question that’s kind of in the same vein. We know that God can hear and respond to all prayers from all people in all times because of His nature as God. Mary and the other saints are not God. How are they able to hear all the prayers made to them and respond by praying with people to God? This may sound extremely silly and ignorant, but I’ve never really seen it addressed, and I’d like to know if it has been.
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scylla
Guest
Hello Kristina, we have another thread just on this very topic. and there are some very good answers to your question. Feel free to search my username for previous posts to find it, since my wife is calling me to dinner and I don’t have the time right now.
God Bless
Scylla
…If I get a chance I will post some answers real quick later on…
God Bless
Scylla
…If I get a chance I will post some answers real quick later on…
J
joeforjesus
Guest
1 SAM 28:16- THIS VERSE IS NOT SAYING THE DEAD SEE ANYTHING ON EARTH. GOD ALLOWED IT ONE TIME THAT I COULD FIND, FOR HIS PURPOSE. AND THE LUKE VERSE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE DEAD SEEING ANYTHING ON EARTH. HE WAS IN TORMENT, HE DIDN’T WANT HIS BROTHERS TO GO WHERE HE WAS, BUT AGAIN IT DOESN’T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM SEEING ANYTHING ON EARHT!
ALL HAVE SINNED, THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT. SHE WAS FULL OF GODS GRACE. THAT IN NO WAY MEANS SHE WAS SINLESS. I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE READ STUFF INTO SCRIPTURE THAT ISN’T THERE. WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY, NOT MAN OR HIS RELIGION, OR TRADITION.
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Coder
Guest
Kristina P.:
We can pray to Mary for a better understanding of our ability to pray to her.
Isn’t all true prayer from us in union with the Holy Spirit? If Mary is also in union with the Holy Spirit then I would think she would be able to know our prayers.
We can pray to Mary for a better understanding of our ability to pray to her.
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joeforjesus
Guest
wHICH BIBLE VERSE SAYS YOU CAN PRAY TO ANYONE BUT THE FATHER IN THE NAME OF JESUS? I WOULD DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING IS ULTIMATELY CHRIST CENTERED, PRAYING TO MARY OR ANY OTHER PERSON WOULD BE A FORM OF IDOLATRY WOULDN’T IT?
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joeforjesus
Guest
WHERE IN THE BIBLE ARE YOU TOLD TO PRAY TO MARY? OR EVEN ALLOWED? I SEE ALOT OF ANSWERS FROM HUMAN RESONING, BUT WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE REFERENCES? IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT I THINK OR FEEL, WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT GOD SAYS THROUGH HIS WORD.
IF WE FOLLOW CHRIST, WE MUST BE ABIDING IN HIS WORD.
(LOVE) DOES NOT REJOICE IN INIQUITY, BUT REJOICES IN THE TRUTH. 1Cor. 13:6
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scylla
Guest
Idolatry is giving worship to something or someone other than God. This is important to remember. You can always take a perception of something and make a definition of what that person is doing.
Example( if I see my evangelical friend on his knees in front of his bed, I can say he is worshipping the bed, but that is mis-representation)
Praying for Catholics has distinctions. We know when we are worshipping or talking to someone. (catholics call talking, “dulia” I will call it talking so you can relate better)
If I am talking to someone who has passed on and want them to pray for me, it is just like asking someone here to pray for me)
Scripture clearly demonstrates that “Saints” are aware of what is going on here on earth, (by God’s power)
“There is more joy in heaven over one sinner,” Luke 15:7
This shows by God’s power that Saints know what is going on here on earth in heaven.
There is plenty more on this and it helps if you read a little bit on the Communion of Saints.
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902clas.asp
The Communion of Saints is also mentioned in the Creeds of the early Church.
God Bless
Scylla
Example( if I see my evangelical friend on his knees in front of his bed, I can say he is worshipping the bed, but that is mis-representation)
Praying for Catholics has distinctions. We know when we are worshipping or talking to someone. (catholics call talking, “dulia” I will call it talking so you can relate better)
If I am talking to someone who has passed on and want them to pray for me, it is just like asking someone here to pray for me)
Scripture clearly demonstrates that “Saints” are aware of what is going on here on earth, (by God’s power)
“There is more joy in heaven over one sinner,” Luke 15:7
This shows by God’s power that Saints know what is going on here on earth in heaven.
There is plenty more on this and it helps if you read a little bit on the Communion of Saints.
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902clas.asp
The Communion of Saints is also mentioned in the Creeds of the early Church.
God Bless
Scylla
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scylla
Guest
I believe fully in the Bible, especially since it was the Catholic Church that gave it to the world. It is extremely important that our beliefs should agree with scripture, but whose interpretation?
Personal intepretation? or the interpretation in light of the Church that Jesus Christ founded with the understanding the Apostles received and in about 397AD created the Canon of the Bible?
You seem to have many questions, which there are solid answers for. Feel free to PM me if you would like more comprehensive answers. Or start a new thread for each question you have, asking too many questions in one thread wont give you good answers.
God Bless
Scylla
Personal intepretation? or the interpretation in light of the Church that Jesus Christ founded with the understanding the Apostles received and in about 397AD created the Canon of the Bible?
You seem to have many questions, which there are solid answers for. Feel free to PM me if you would like more comprehensive answers. Or start a new thread for each question you have, asking too many questions in one thread wont give you good answers.
God Bless
Scylla
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joeforjesus
Guest
PLEASE SHOW THE BIBLE VERSES TO BACK UP WHAT YOU HAVE STATED?I see what you are saying however consider that the ability to pary to Mary is part of God’s gift of salvation to us. It is a gift to both Mary and us. God gives Mary to you as mother.
THERE ARE NONE, IT IS FALSE STATEMENT, PLEASE WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON GOD’S WORD!
YES, I’LL PROBABLY BE BANNED FROM THIS WEBSITE OR SOMETHING, BUT I MUST, AS A CHRISTIAN, STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD. JUDE 3 SAYS TO CONTEND EARNESTLY FOR THE FAITH. MAN COMES IN AND TRIES TO ADD TO OR TAKE FROM GOD’S WORD. ACTUALLY IT’S THE ENEMY. HE WANTS THE TRUTH DISTORTED, TO CAUSE CONFUSION AND STRIFE. DOES WHAT YOU BELIEVE LINE UP WITH GOD’S HOLY WORD. (RIGHT NOW) CAN YOU THINK OF SOMETHING THAT YOU BELIEVE ABOUT YOUR FAITH, NOW FIND IT IN THE WORD OF GOD. IF YOU CAN’T FIND IT, THEN IT’S ERROR AND FALSE. PLEASE CONSIDER WHAT I’M SAYING BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME.
THANK YOU,
JOE
E-MAIL: Removed e-mail address
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scylla
Guest
Hello Joe,
It really is a shame when people are banned off of forums like this, but that is usually because of their behavior. If you are truly interested in truth. Start a thread asking your questions and do so charitably. (ask one question at a time to get a proper response)
I have seen no-one judge you and I recommend you turn off your caps-lock as that is considered “yelling” and usually rude behavior on the internet.
As I said before and again nothing in the Catholic faith contradicts the Bible. If you are going to state that we must prove it from scripture, understand we do not see it as so. We will just go round and round if we disagree on interpretation. Please read my posts carefully and check out the link I posted. There is a lot of good info on this site regarding your questions. If you truly believe we are wrong, I suggest you read some more about the Catholic faith here so you can correct us.
Just to make sure you are correcting what is truly the Catholic faith.
In Christ
Scylla
It really is a shame when people are banned off of forums like this, but that is usually because of their behavior. If you are truly interested in truth. Start a thread asking your questions and do so charitably. (ask one question at a time to get a proper response)
I have seen no-one judge you and I recommend you turn off your caps-lock as that is considered “yelling” and usually rude behavior on the internet.
As I said before and again nothing in the Catholic faith contradicts the Bible. If you are going to state that we must prove it from scripture, understand we do not see it as so. We will just go round and round if we disagree on interpretation. Please read my posts carefully and check out the link I posted. There is a lot of good info on this site regarding your questions. If you truly believe we are wrong, I suggest you read some more about the Catholic faith here so you can correct us.
Just to make sure you are correcting what is truly the Catholic faith.
In Christ
Scylla
J
javelin
Guest
Where in the Bible does it say that you can use artificial contraceptives? Where in the Bible does the Bible say it is the sole rule of faith? Where in the Bible does it say that you are allowed to play electric guitar for worship?
Sorry, that last one was not necessary…
The biggest thing to try to understand this is to know that prayer does NOT equate to worship. “Prayer” is simply communication with someone else. When the prayer itself is a prayer of worship, then it is worship. When the prayer is for adoration, then it is adoration. When it is asking for prayer, or simply sharing time with a deceased loved one, then it is just natural soul to soul communication, no more horrible that speaking with a friend or loved one over the phone.
Or think of it this way:
The Bible says we are to imitate Christ
Christ was sinless, and so He perfectly followed the 10 Commandments, including “Honor thy mother and father”
The Bible illustrates that Jesus spoke with Mary
And so we, as faithful followers of Christ, imitating Him, also speak with His mother (whom He gave us as our mother, too, at the cross), and honor her as we would our own mothers (and who doesn’t speak with their mom?).
Peace,
javelin
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Catholic_Tom
Guest
Unfortunately, you have decided to hijack someones sincere desire to learn about Catholicism and get answers from a Catholic viewpoint. Let me help you out, however insincere you may be.
Understand that you have the word courtesy of Christ’s Church. It’s never ceases to amaze me, how one can place so much confidence on a book, believe it to be the Word of God, yet not have faith in the Church given the Authority of Christ to assemble it and teach. The fact that you have a Bible, is a product of…yup, you said it, Tradition (with a capital T).
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Catholic_Tom
Guest
I am posting the following I found on another Thread. It appears our “new” friend joeforjesus is flooding the board trying to save everyone. Since Jesus as the ONE MEDIATOR was mentioned in this thread, I think this is relevant.
javelin:
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Sherlock
Guest
Please stop with the caps lock. It’s rude, as it’s the written equivalent of shouting. It also detracts from your credibility, just as a person who was unable to discuss anything without shouting would lose credibility.
We’re in line with God’s Word, thank you very much.
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Coder
Guest
The question of Sola Scriptura has been well addressed both in scripture itself and here on CA.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
My apologies for the editing of this thread, but it is such a good one that I didn’t want to close it and deprive so many honest questioners of the answers posted here. Hopefully the thread can now proceed without interruption and hijacking.
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Catholic_Tom
Guest
Michael Francis:
kudo’s to you
R
RyanL
Guest
"How can the saints in heaven hear us?"
I don’t know; I just know they do. I know this because the Bible says so:
Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. (KJV)
The question you have to ask yourself is “how do they know?”. Again, I don’t know, they just do. Add to this the fact that most repentence is not auricular (spoken), and you have those in heaven knowing the hearts of men on earth.
**
“Isn’t that an attribute of God alone?”**
No. Again, the Bible tells me it’s not:
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
This depicts the elders in heaven delivering to God the prayers of the ‘holy ones’ (saints) on earth. How do they know? Aren’t most prayers silent?
1 Cor. 13:12 “Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood”
Again, I don’t know how, I just know that it is. They “fully understand”. I also don’t know how a toaster knows when to eject the bread, but I know it works. All that is certain is that it is not of their own power by which they know what they do - it is by the power of God alone.
You may also consider Ananias and Sapphira from Acts 5. Did they confess their sins to Peter? How did he know? God revealed their hearts to him. (Acts 5:4 “…Why have you conceived this thing in your heart?..”)
"Do they hear us when we pray to God? If we approach God in prayer, can we approach Him by Himself?"
Heb. 12:22-24 But you have approached Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, and the assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood which speaks better than that of Abel.
It seems not. God is never alone. Even before creation, God was by His very nature (Trinity) never alone.
Once you start to see heaven as a place of eternal unity with God, the idea that in unity all share to some degree the knowledge of God seems far more plausible.
Hope this helps.
God Bless,
RyanL
I don’t know; I just know they do. I know this because the Bible says so:
Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. (KJV)
The question you have to ask yourself is “how do they know?”. Again, I don’t know, they just do. Add to this the fact that most repentence is not auricular (spoken), and you have those in heaven knowing the hearts of men on earth.
**
“Isn’t that an attribute of God alone?”**
No. Again, the Bible tells me it’s not:
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
This depicts the elders in heaven delivering to God the prayers of the ‘holy ones’ (saints) on earth. How do they know? Aren’t most prayers silent?
1 Cor. 13:12 “Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood”
Again, I don’t know how, I just know that it is. They “fully understand”. I also don’t know how a toaster knows when to eject the bread, but I know it works. All that is certain is that it is not of their own power by which they know what they do - it is by the power of God alone.
You may also consider Ananias and Sapphira from Acts 5. Did they confess their sins to Peter? How did he know? God revealed their hearts to him. (Acts 5:4 “…Why have you conceived this thing in your heart?..”)
"Do they hear us when we pray to God? If we approach God in prayer, can we approach Him by Himself?"
Heb. 12:22-24 But you have approached Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, and the assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood which speaks better than that of Abel.
It seems not. God is never alone. Even before creation, God was by His very nature (Trinity) never alone.
Once you start to see heaven as a place of eternal unity with God, the idea that in unity all share to some degree the knowledge of God seems far more plausible.
Hope this helps.
God Bless,
RyanL
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skattas
Guest
So love for the Saints in Heaven is not a replacement for love of the Father Who is theirs & ours - it is a result of God’s Love for us & them, and of ours for God and them.
Thank you so much for your thoughts, they were very insightful. I just want to clear up that I don’t think that love for God is replaced by the love of the saints in heaven. I just see it as a waste of time (for lack of better words), to pray to others when you’ve got God right there. Hence my next question: would I be considered a Catholic if I teach my children to only pray to God, honor the saints, but not in prayer and such? Not teaching that it would be wrong to do so, but to teach only prayer to God? I hope this question makes the smallest bit of sense! Thanks for your thoughts, you are very interesting and direct…I like that!
God Bless
Thank you so much for your thoughts, they were very insightful. I just want to clear up that I don’t think that love for God is replaced by the love of the saints in heaven. I just see it as a waste of time (for lack of better words), to pray to others when you’ve got God right there. Hence my next question: would I be considered a Catholic if I teach my children to only pray to God, honor the saints, but not in prayer and such? Not teaching that it would be wrong to do so, but to teach only prayer to God? I hope this question makes the smallest bit of sense!
Thanks for your thoughts, you are very interesting and direct…I like that!God Bless
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